This morning I had 37 messages from the r-help list in my mailbox. I think its becoming excessive for an e-mail list. I wonder if whoever looks after this list could either move or gateway it to a usenet group? That would also eliminate the need for special purpose archiving and searching facilities since the site: http://groups.google.com would automatically provide that. That site also allows one to both read and post via the web (with a delay of several hours) in case one does not care to use newsgroup software. -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
I agree with you: the list is VERY busy. This is sometimes a problem for modem users with rather poor internet facilities (my case). An alternative to your proposal would be to adopt the same behaviour as for S-news: reply directly to the caller who summarizes to the group. Of course, it's more time-consuming for the caller, but it should divide at least by 2 or 3 the number of messages on R-Help... Best, Renaud ggrothendieck at yifan.net wrote:> > This morning I had 37 messages from the r-help list in my mailbox. > I think its becoming excessive for an e-mail list. > > I wonder if whoever looks after this list could either move or gateway > it to a usenet group? > > That would also eliminate the need for special purpose archiving and > searching facilities since the site: > > http://groups.google.com > > would automatically provide that. That site also allows one to both read > and post via the web (with a delay of several hours) in case one does not > care to use newsgroup software. > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html > Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" > (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch > _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._-- Dr Renaud Lancelot, v?t?rinaire CIRAD, D?partement Elevage et M?decine V?t?rinaire (CIRAD-Emvt) Programme Productions Animales http://www.cirad.fr/presentation/programmes/prod-ani.shtml (Fran?ais) http://www.cirad.fr/presentation/en/program-eng/prod-ani.shtml (English) ISRA-LNERV tel (221) 832 49 02 BP 2057 Dakar-Hann fax (221) 821 18 79 (CIRAD) Senegal e-mail renaud.lancelot at cirad.fr -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
I absolutely agree. Cheers, Randall On Wed, 10 Apr 2002 ggrothendieck at yifan.net wrote:> This morning I had 37 messages from the r-help list in my mailbox. > I think its becoming excessive for an e-mail list. > > I wonder if whoever looks after this list could either move or gateway > it to a usenet group? > > That would also eliminate the need for special purpose archiving and > searching facilities since the site: > > http://groups.google.com > > would automatically provide that. That site also allows one to both read > and post via the web (with a delay of several hours) in case one does not > care to use newsgroup software. >-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
It is actually much cheaper for me to download 37 messages than read from the web. Some of us have to pay dearly for our on-line time; newsgroups are damn expensive in that case. Clearly you don't live in a country that has obscene phone rates like those here in Japan...:) Best, MEH> -----Original Message----- > From: owner-r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch[mailto:owner-r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch] On> Behalf Of ggrothendieck at yifan.net > Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 1:59 AM > To: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch > Subject: [R] Newsgroup > > > This morning I had 37 messages from the r-help list in my mailbox. > I think its becoming excessive for an e-mail list. > > I wonder if whoever looks after this list could either move or gateway > it to a usenet group? > > That would also eliminate the need for special purpose archiving and > searching facilities since the site: > > http://groups.google.com > > would automatically provide that. That site also allows one to bothread> and post via the web (with a delay of several hours) in case one doesnot> care to use newsgroup software. > >-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-. -.-.-.-> r-help mailing list -- Readhttp://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html> Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" > (in the "body", not the subject !) To:r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch>_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._. _._._._ -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
>>>>> "kjetilh" == Kjetilh Halvorsen <kjetilh at umsanet.edu.bo> writes:kjetilh> I vote strongly against a newsgroup! I would suggest that there is no reason to vote. Those that want one, can implement it, without affecting others. The software exists. Note that in the distant past, various departments did do mailing-list <-> local USENET/NNTP for the S news list. It was quite amusing (at least now it is) when they became mis-configured... best, -tony -- A.J. Rossini Rsrch. Asst. Prof. of Biostatistics U. of Washington Biostatistics rossini at u.washington.edu FHCRC/SCHARP/HIV Vaccine Trials Net rossini at scharp.org -------------- http://software.biostat.washington.edu/ ---------------- FHCRC: M-W: 206-667-7025 (fax=4812)|Voicemail is pretty sketchy/use Email UW: Th: 206-543-1044 (fax=3286)|Change last 4 digits of phone to FAX (my friday location is usually completely unpredictable.) -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
Hola! This topic has arised before, since then I larned about google groups, but it is still a fact that there are no newsserver (google or otherwise) on this continent, and reading newsgroups is little more than waste of time. With a mailing list I can take down all mail, and close telephone connection, reading offline. I vote strongly against a newsgroup! Kjetil Halvorsen> This morning I had 37 messages from the r-help list in my mailbox. I > think its becoming excessive for an e-mail list. > > I wonder if whoever looks after this list could either move or gateway > it to a usenet group? > > That would also eliminate the need for special purpose archiving and > searching facilities since the site: > > http://groups.google.com > > would automatically provide that. That site also allows one to both > read and post via the web (with a delay of several hours) in case one > does not care to use newsgroup software. > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-> r-help mailing list -- Read > http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or > "[un]subscribe" > (in the "body", not the subject !) To: > r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch >_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._. _._ -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
You don't have to access the newsgroup via google. You can download all the news from a newsgroup using a news client such as Netscape's news client, pine, Outlook Express (Windows) or Forte FreeAgent (Windows). This works very similarly to how email works. Also, it would be possible to have the newsgroup and the email list at the same time such that anything posted to one automatically shows up on the other too. That was what I meant when I referred to a gateway. On 10 Apr 2002 at 18:46, Kjetilh Halvorsen wrote:> Hola! > > This topic has arised before, since then I larned about google groups, but > it is still a fact that there are no newsserver (google or otherwise) on > this continent, and reading newsgroups is little more than waste of time. > > With a mailing list I can take down all mail, and close telephone > connection, reading offline. > > I vote strongly against a newsgroup! > > Kjetil Halvorsen > > > > > This morning I had 37 messages from the r-help list in my mailbox. I > > think its becoming excessive for an e-mail list. > > > > I wonder if whoever looks after this list could either move or gateway > > it to a usenet group? > > > > That would also eliminate the need for special purpose archiving and > > searching facilities since the site: > > > > http://groups.google.com > > > > would automatically provide that. That site also allows one to both > > read and post via the web (with a delay of several hours) in case one > > does not care to use newsgroup software. > > > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > .-.-.- > > r-help mailing list -- Read > > http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or > > "[un]subscribe" > > (in the "body", not the subject !) To: > > r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch > > > _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._. > _._ > > >-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
Hi, I use a mail threading utility (thanks to :"[R]", which is in the header of almost all messages), so that I don't see R messages in my inbox: they are directly dropped in another one. I think reply-to-sender would render the list useless, because now, I read about other people's problems and I learn a lot this way. I might also say that I subscribed to other lists and did the same: everything is fine. Cheers,>This morning I had 37 messages from the r-help list in my mailbox. >I think its becoming excessive for an e-mail list. > >I wonder if whoever looks after this list could either move or gateway >it to a usenet group? > >That would also eliminate the need for special purpose archiving and >searching facilities since the site: > >http://groups.google.com > >would automatically provide that. That site also allows one to both read >and post via the web (with a delay of several hours) in case one does not >care to use newsgroup software. > >-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- >r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html >Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" >(in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch >_._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._-- ---------------------------- Patrick Gonin, DVM, PhD Head of in vivo Evaluation Dept G?n?thon 1 bis, rue de l'Internationale- BP 60 91002 EVRY CEDEX FRANCE Tel: 33-1-69-47-10-21 Fax: 33-1-60-77-86-98 gonin at genethon.fr ---------------------------- -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
Dear R-Group, let me tell you, that I am very content, that the R-group is so busy: - I have learnt many insights to R-handling and/or programming this way, the group works for me like an livley wunderful online tutorial - I found it interesting to watch the discussions (silently), because one has sometimes similar problems.. So I see no problem with the current system: because one has a "[R]" mark in the subject field of the message, one can delete unwanted messages directly on the server. Best whishes for this active group, Wolfgang Lindner -- OStR Wolfgang Lindner Tel : +49 (0203) 379-1326 Gerhard-Mercator-Universit?t Duisburg Fax : +49 (0203) 379-2528 Fakult?t 4 - Naturwissenschaften eMail: Lindner at math.uni-duisburg.de Institut fuer Mathematik, LE 424 Lotharstr. 65 D 47048 Duisburg (Germany) -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
Hi I've subscribed the R mailing list a long time a go and I'm quite happy that it has so much volume. I've learned a lot reading messages. For people with slow conections there is the diggest and the mail filters. The newsgroups are annoying and more difficult to use. If you want to take a quick look to most of the messages, it will take even more time then downloading the mail into your machine. And there's allways the problem of spam and publicity. If it gets completely out of control, which I think it will not, there's allways the chance of spliting the mailing list, as someone posted. Regards EJ ps: During 1997-1999 I was on the snews list and it was very difficult to get help in more specific problems. I never had that problem in [R]. On Wed, 2002-04-10 at 17:59, ggrothendieck at yifan.net wrote:> > This morning I had 37 messages from the r-help list in my mailbox. > I think its becoming excessive for an e-mail list. > > I wonder if whoever looks after this list could either move or gateway > it to a usenet group? > > That would also eliminate the need for special purpose archiving and > searching facilities since the site: > > http://groups.google.com > > would automatically provide that. That site also allows one to both read > and post via the web (with a delay of several hours) in case one does not > care to use newsgroup software. > > -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- > r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html > Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" > (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch > _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
I agree that a newsgroup gateway would be a good idea. I volunteer to help whoever wants to set one up. If nobody volunteers to head the project, then I'll put it on my list of things to do myself, but it's unlikely to happen before my sabbatical in 2004 if it's on that list. I think the mailing list is fine for people who read mail on a machine with an SMTP server on it, i.e. most of the *nix people. However, for people picking up mail from a POP server (i.e. most of the Windows people), each message can take several *seconds* of download time. Having 50 messages in your inbox makes the mail pickup excruciatingly slow, and prone to failure due to timeouts when the network is busy. Since I use a POP server I found that the digests are the only reasonable way to read the list. But the digests have their own problems: - You can't reply to them, replies go to the wrong address. (I don't know if setting "Reply-to" to the r-help address would be a good idea. Probably not.) For replies like this one I have to write a new message to r-help. If I make a typo in the header, then my message won't show up in the same thread as the others. It's also hard to quote previous messages: you can easily quote the entire digest, but then you have to edit out all the other messages. - They aren't organized by thread, they're in serial order. - They arrive once a day, later than the original messages, so responses like this one aren't timely. I believe some software can automatically burst digests into individual messages, which would help with some of these problems. In fact, the program I use (Agent) can do it, but the r-help digests aren't in a format it understands. I don't know if that's because it's buggy, because r-help is in an unusual format, or because Agent only supports some weird formats, but it means I can't do the bursting. Newsgroups also have the advantage of maintaining several days of messages on the central server, with easy retrieval. If I see a reply to a message that looks interesting, I often want to read the original: but that is hard to find in old digests, and I've likely deleted it anyway. Duncan Murdoch -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._
Hello, I completely disagree. If the problem is the number of e-mails, you should sub_scribe to the list in digest mode. This way, you only will receive a message a day. Regards, Virgilio -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._