Xen users - May 2008 - RE: Running MS Terminal Server and MS Small Business Serverunder Xen?

Jamie J. Begin wrote:
> 
> I have the crazy idea to run both Microsoft Terminal Server 
> and Small Business Server (SBS is a license-restricted 
> version of Windows Server with Exchange for shop with <50 
> users) in separate HVM domUs.  Assuming that I have a beefy 
> enough underlying hardware, how likely do you think this 
> would work?  I know that Exchange isn''t one of those apps 
> that are ideally suited for virtualization, but this would 
> only be handling email for about 15 users.
For 15 users you can get away with just about anything...

Exchange can be virtualized, it''s the storage that really
matters and with iSCSI and the ability to create multiple
exchange virtual servers to distribute the load it can
be made to scale in a virtualized environment.

-Ross

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>Jamie J. Begin wrote:
>> 
>> I have the crazy idea to run both Microsoft Terminal Server 
>> and Small Business Server (SBS is a license-restricted 
>> version of Windows Server with Exchange for shop with <50 
>> users) in separate HVM domUs.  Assuming that I have a beefy 
>> enough underlying hardware, how likely do you think this 
>> would work?  I know that Exchange isn''t one of those apps 
>> that are ideally suited for virtualization, but this would 
>> only be handling email for about 15 users.
>
>For 15 users you can get away with just about anything...
>
>Exchange can be virtualized, it''s the storage that really
>matters and with iSCSI and the ability to create multiple
>exchange virtual servers to distribute the load it can
>be made to scale in a virtualized environment.
>
> -Ross
iSCSI is a bit beyond what I''d be looking at for this project.  ;-) 
What''s
more likely is a 2U Dell server with six 146GB 10k SAS drives in a RAID5/6
config.  Disk IO is my biggest concern if I attempt to do this.  Any tips or
tricks?  I''d hate to recommend that a $5k server be purchased and then
have
this blow up in my face...


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Jamie J. Begin wrote:
> 
> >Jamie J. Begin wrote:
> >> 
> >> I have the crazy idea to run both Microsoft Terminal Server 
> >> and Small Business Server (SBS is a license-restricted 
> >> version of Windows Server with Exchange for shop with <50 
> >> users) in separate HVM domUs.  Assuming that I have a beefy 
> >> enough underlying hardware, how likely do you think this 
> >> would work?  I know that Exchange isn''t one of those apps
> >> that are ideally suited for virtualization, but this would 
> >> only be handling email for about 15 users.
> >
> >For 15 users you can get away with just about anything...
> >
> >Exchange can be virtualized, it''s the storage that really
> >matters and with iSCSI and the ability to create multiple
> >exchange virtual servers to distribute the load it can
> >be made to scale in a virtualized environment.
> >
> > -Ross
> 
> iSCSI is a bit beyond what I''d be looking at for this project. 
;-)  What''s
> more likely is a 2U Dell server with six 146GB 10k SAS drives in a RAID5/6
> config.  Disk IO is my biggest concern if I attempt to do this.  Any tips
or
> tricks?  I''d hate to recommend that a $5k server be purchased and
then have
> this blow up in my face...
iSCSI isn''t that complicated and there are free Linux iSCSI targets
and the Microsoft iSCSI initiator is free, so there is minimal cost
involved (just 1Gbe NICs and switches), but for this setup it isn''t
necessary, I just used it as an illustration on how to scale
exchange to work in a virtualized environment.

Why not just buy a Dell 2950 though with Small Business Server
installed on it and be done with it?

Using Xen for this setup is kinda overkill.

A Dell 2950, 2 250GB SATA RAID1 for OS, and 4 250GB or 500GB SATA
RAID5 or RAID10 for application data. Use hardware RAID card with
decent sized battery backed up write-back cache and your good to
go. I suggest the 500GB drives in RAID10 as it should allow for
a universal IO pattern.

You are not really going to see a lot of IO with 15 users.

If the number of users grows large, add iSCSI to the box and use
the local storage for online backups/snapshots. For this reason
I always get an extra dual-port Gbe card factory installed.

-Ross

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> 
> Jamie J. Begin wrote:
> >
> > >Jamie J. Begin wrote:
> > >>
> > >> I have the crazy idea to run both Microsoft Terminal Server
> > >> and Small Business Server (SBS is a license-restricted
> > >> version of Windows Server with Exchange for shop with <50
> > >> users) in separate HVM domUs.  Assuming that I have a beefy
> > >> enough underlying hardware, how likely do you think this
> > >> would work?  I know that Exchange isn''t one of those
apps
> > >> that are ideally suited for virtualization, but this would
> > >> only be handling email for about 15 users.
> > >
> > >For 15 users you can get away with just about anything...
> > >
> > >Exchange can be virtualized, it''s the storage that really
> > >matters and with iSCSI and the ability to create multiple
> > >exchange virtual servers to distribute the load it can
> > >be made to scale in a virtualized environment.
> > >
> > > -Ross
> >
> > iSCSI is a bit beyond what I''d be looking at for this
project.  ;-)
> What''s
> > more likely is a 2U Dell server with six 146GB 10k SAS drives in a
> RAID5/6
> > config.  Disk IO is my biggest concern if I attempt to do this.  Any
> tips or
> > tricks?  I''d hate to recommend that a $5k server be purchased
and then
> have
> > this blow up in my face...
> 
> iSCSI isn''t that complicated and there are free Linux iSCSI
targets
> and the Microsoft iSCSI initiator is free, so there is minimal cost
> involved (just 1Gbe NICs and switches), but for this setup it
isn''t
> necessary, I just used it as an illustration on how to scale
> exchange to work in a virtualized environment.
> 
> Why not just buy a Dell 2950 though with Small Business Server
> installed on it and be done with it?
> 
> Using Xen for this setup is kinda overkill.
> 
> A Dell 2950, 2 250GB SATA RAID1 for OS, and 4 250GB or 500GB SATA
> RAID5 or RAID10 for application data. Use hardware RAID card with
> decent sized battery backed up write-back cache and your good to
> go. I suggest the 500GB drives in RAID10 as it should allow for
> a universal IO pattern.
> 
> You are not really going to see a lot of IO with 15 users.
> 
> If the number of users grows large, add iSCSI to the box and use
> the local storage for online backups/snapshots. For this reason
> I always get an extra dual-port Gbe card factory installed.
> 
> -Ross
> 
The client is planning to move his operations into a datacenter to free him
from the physical constraints of an office.  Most of his employees are
either on the road or able to work from home.  He currently has the standard
SBS setup with a handful of WinXP desktops.  The desktops are going away and
I want to set up everyone to use RDP over HTTPS from anywhere they have a
PC.

We''re looking at a 2U 2950 to host three virtual servers: SBS, Terminal
services, and a linux server with Bacula and/or BackupPC for disk-based
backups. A second server, a 1U 1950, will also be Xen-based and function as
a firewall/OpenVPN, Asterisk, web, and secondary SMTP servers.  I''m
looking
at Xen because it will enable me to reduce rackspace and power requirements,
save on hardware costs, plus all the usual virtualization manageability
benefits.

What''s holding me up at the moment is finding a local datacenter that
offers
PRI connectivity (for the phone trunks) at a decent price, and the
uncertainty of using Xen with Exchange and Terminal Services.


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Jamie J. Begin wrote:
> > Jamie J. Begin wrote:
> > > >Jamie J. Begin wrote:
> > > >>
> > > >> I have the crazy idea to run both Microsoft Terminal
Server
> > > >> and Small Business Server (SBS is a license-restricted
> > > >> version of Windows Server with Exchange for shop with
<50
> > > >> users) in separate HVM domUs.  Assuming that I have a
beefy
> > > >> enough underlying hardware, how likely do you think this
> > > >> would work?  I know that Exchange isn''t one of
those apps
> > > >> that are ideally suited for virtualization, but this
would
> > > >> only be handling email for about 15 users.
> > > >
> > > >For 15 users you can get away with just about anything...
> > > >
> > > >Exchange can be virtualized, it''s the storage that
really
> > > >matters and with iSCSI and the ability to create multiple
> > > >exchange virtual servers to distribute the load it can
> > > >be made to scale in a virtualized environment.
> > > >
> > > > -Ross
> > >
> > > iSCSI is a bit beyond what I''d be looking at for this
project.  ;-)
> > > What''s more likely is a 2U Dell server with six 146GB
10k SAS drives in a
> > > RAID5/6 config.  Disk IO is my biggest concern if I attempt to do
> > > this.  Any tips or tricks?  I''d hate to recommend that a
$5k server be
> > > purchased and then have this blow up in my face...
> > 
> > iSCSI isn''t that complicated and there are free Linux iSCSI
targets
> > and the Microsoft iSCSI initiator is free, so there is minimal cost
> > involved (just 1Gbe NICs and switches), but for this setup it
isn''t
> > necessary, I just used it as an illustration on how to scale
> > exchange to work in a virtualized environment.
> > 
> > Why not just buy a Dell 2950 though with Small Business Server
> > installed on it and be done with it?
> > 
> > Using Xen for this setup is kinda overkill.
> > 
> > A Dell 2950, 2 250GB SATA RAID1 for OS, and 4 250GB or 500GB SATA
> > RAID5 or RAID10 for application data. Use hardware RAID card with
> > decent sized battery backed up write-back cache and your good to
> > go. I suggest the 500GB drives in RAID10 as it should allow for
> > a universal IO pattern.
> > 
> > You are not really going to see a lot of IO with 15 users.
> > 
> > If the number of users grows large, add iSCSI to the box and use
> > the local storage for online backups/snapshots. For this reason
> > I always get an extra dual-port Gbe card factory installed.
> > 
> > -Ross
> > 
> 
> The client is planning to move his operations into a datacenter to free him
> from the physical constraints of an office.  Most of his employees are
> either on the road or able to work from home.  He currently has the
standard
> SBS setup with a handful of WinXP desktops.  The desktops are going away
and
> I want to set up everyone to use RDP over HTTPS from anywhere they have a
> PC.
Not a bad plan, something like rackspace or so, but you still don''t
need virtualization to achieve this. RDP protocol is built-in and
with remote management interface cards you can even cold-boot a
server remotely these days.
> We''re looking at a 2U 2950 to host three virtual servers: SBS,
Terminal
> services, and a linux server with Bacula and/or BackupPC for disk-based
> backups. A second server, a 1U 1950, will also be Xen-based and function as
> a firewall/OpenVPN, Asterisk, web, and secondary SMTP servers. 
I''m looking
> at Xen because it will enable me to reduce rackspace and power
requirements,
> save on hardware costs, plus all the usual virtualization manageability
> benefits.
2950 is a good box we have quite a few deployed here. How about just SBS
that acts as a terminal server. You will get maximum performance that
way. Xen might be a good idea on the 1u device though with different
Linux para-virtualized domains, one for firewall, one for mail, one
for asterisk.
> What''s holding me up at the moment is finding a local datacenter
that offers
> PRI connectivity (for the phone trunks) at a decent price, and the
> uncertainty of using Xen with Exchange and Terminal Services.
I got a product from Level3 for one of our offices that runs a
data T1 and PRI across a single circuit. Basically a full T1
of bandwidth that gets suppressed by 64K for each active BRI
in use.

-Ross


______________________________________________________________________
This e-mail, and any attachments thereto, is intended only for use by
the addressee(s) named herein and may contain legally privileged
and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient
of this e-mail, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this e-mail, and any attachments thereto,
is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail in error,
please immediately notify the sender and permanently delete the
original and any copy or printout thereof.


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