zfs discuss - Oct 2008 - Looking for some hardware answers, maybe someone on this list could help

I posted a thread here...
http://forums.opensolaris.com/thread.jspa?threadID=596

I am trying to finish building a system and I kind of need to pick
working NIC and onboard SATA chipsets (video is not a big deal - I can
get a silent PCIe card for that, I already know one which works great)

I need 8 onboard SATA. I would prefer Intel CPU. At least one gigabit
port. That''s about it.

I built a list in that thread of all the options I found from the
major manufacturers that Newegg has as the pool of possible
chipsets/etc... any help is appreciated (anyone actually using any of
these) - and remember I''m trying to use Nevada out of the box, not
have to download specific drivers and tweak all this myself...

2008/10/6 mike <mike503 at gmail.com>:
> I am trying to finish building a system and I kind of need to pick
> working NIC and onboard SATA chipsets (video is not a big deal - I can
> get a silent PCIe card for that, I already know one which works great)
>
> I need 8 onboard SATA. I would prefer Intel CPU. At least one gigabit
> port. That''s about it.
I am using an Intel S3210SH server board, which has two onboard Intel
gigabit interfaces and 6 onboard SATA - all of which are supported. I
am also using a Supermicro 8-port SATA card (PCI-X), which again is
the recommended item for use!

Yeah, I was scoping an Intel board - only one I could find had 8 SATA.

However, couldn''t find much info on support for those either. For this
machine I need 16 ports and want 8 onboard SATA. It shouldn''t be
difficult, but I don''t want to order something, find out it''s
not
compatible, and have to return it online...


On Tue, Oct 7, 2008 at 1:33 AM, gm_sjo <saqmaster at gmail.com>
wrote:
> 2008/10/6 mike <mike503 at gmail.com>:
>> I am trying to finish building a system and I kind of need to pick
>> working NIC and onboard SATA chipsets (video is not a big deal - I can
>> get a silent PCIe card for that, I already know one which works great)
>>
>> I need 8 onboard SATA. I would prefer Intel CPU. At least one gigabit
>> port. That''s about it.
>
> I am using an Intel S3210SH server board, which has two onboard Intel
> gigabit interfaces and 6 onboard SATA - all of which are supported. I
> am also using a Supermicro 8-port SATA card (PCI-X), which again is
> the recommended item for use!
>

You may need an add-on SATA card. I haven''t come across any 8 port
motherboards.

As far as chipsets are concerned, take a look at something with the
Intel X38 chipset. It''s the only one of the desktop chipsets that
supports ECC ram. Coincidentally, it''s also the chipset used in the
Sun Ultra 24 workstation
(http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra24/index.xml).


On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> I posted a thread here...
> http://forums.opensolaris.com/thread.jspa?threadID=596
>
> I am trying to finish building a system and I kind of need to pick
> working NIC and onboard SATA chipsets (video is not a big deal - I can
> get a silent PCIe card for that, I already know one which works great)
>
> I need 8 onboard SATA. I would prefer Intel CPU. At least one gigabit
> port. That''s about it.
>
> I built a list in that thread of all the options I found from the
> major manufacturers that Newegg has as the pool of possible
> chipsets/etc... any help is appreciated (anyone actually using any of
> these) - and remember I''m trying to use Nevada out of the box, not
> have to download specific drivers and tweak all this myself...
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>

There''s plenty of 8 port, either full 8 or 6+2 combinations etc.

Anyway I went with a Supermicro PDSME+ which appears to work well
according to the HCL, and bought two of the AOC-SAT2-MV8''s and will
just use those. It''s actually being delivered today...

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Joe S <js.lists at gmail.com>
wrote:
> You may need an add-on SATA card. I haven''t come across any 8 port
motherboards.
>
> As far as chipsets are concerned, take a look at something with the
> Intel X38 chipset. It''s the only one of the desktop chipsets that
> supports ECC ram. Coincidentally, it''s also the chipset used in
the
> Sun Ultra 24 workstation
> (http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra24/index.xml).
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> I posted a thread here...
>> http://forums.opensolaris.com/thread.jspa?threadID=596
>>
>> I am trying to finish building a system and I kind of need to pick
>> working NIC and onboard SATA chipsets (video is not a big deal - I can
>> get a silent PCIe card for that, I already know one which works great)
>>
>> I need 8 onboard SATA. I would prefer Intel CPU. At least one gigabit
>> port. That''s about it.
>>
>> I built a list in that thread of all the options I found from the
>> major manufacturers that Newegg has as the pool of possible
>> chipsets/etc... any help is appreciated (anyone actually using any of
>> these) - and remember I''m trying to use Nevada out of the box,
not
>> have to download specific drivers and tweak all this myself...
>> _______________________________________________
>> zfs-discuss mailing list
>> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>>
>

Good news - I got snv_98 up without a hitch. So far, so good.

Onboard video works great (well, console. Haven''t used X11)
Top NIC works great (e1000g) - haven''t tried the second NIC
Did not try the onboard SATA
Two Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 PCI-X''s working well

Here''s the specifics:
- LIAN LI PC-V2110B Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case
- PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI NVIDIA SLI
Certified (Dual 8800 -GTX and below) CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified
Active PFC Power Supply
- SUPERMICRO MBD-PDSME+-O LGA 775 Intel 3010 ATX Server Motherboard
- 2x Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) ECC
Unbuffered Server Memory Model KVR667D2E5/2GI
- 2x SUPERMICRO AOC-SAT2-MV8 64-bit PCI-X133MHz SATA Controller Card
- 2x Seagate 160 gig for mirrored boot
- 7x Seagate 1.5TB for data (second batch of 7 when I fill this batch)

Just about all of it thanks to Newegg. I will need to pick up some
4-in-3 enclosures and a better CPU heatsink/fan - this is supposed to
be quiet but it has an annoying hum. Weird. Anyway, so far so good.
Hopefully the power supply can handle all 16 disks too...

On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:46 PM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> There''s plenty of 8 port, either full 8 or 6+2 combinations etc.
>
> Anyway I went with a Supermicro PDSME+ which appears to work well
> according to the HCL, and bought two of the AOC-SAT2-MV8''s and
will
> just use those. It''s actually being delivered today...
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Joe S <js.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>> You may need an add-on SATA card. I haven''t come across any 8
port motherboards.
>>
>> As far as chipsets are concerned, take a look at something with the
>> Intel X38 chipset. It''s the only one of the desktop chipsets
that
>> supports ECC ram. Coincidentally, it''s also the chipset used
in the
>> Sun Ultra 24 workstation
>> (http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra24/index.xml).
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> I posted a thread here...
>>> http://forums.opensolaris.com/thread.jspa?threadID=596
>>>
>>> I am trying to finish building a system and I kind of need to pick
>>> working NIC and onboard SATA chipsets (video is not a big deal - I
can
>>> get a silent PCIe card for that, I already know one which works
great)
>>>
>>> I need 8 onboard SATA. I would prefer Intel CPU. At least one
gigabit
>>> port. That''s about it.
>>>
>>> I built a list in that thread of all the options I found from the
>>> major manufacturers that Newegg has as the pool of possible
>>> chipsets/etc... any help is appreciated (anyone actually using any
of
>>> these) - and remember I''m trying to use Nevada out of the
box, not
>>> have to download specific drivers and tweak all this myself...
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> zfs-discuss mailing list
>>> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>>>
>>
>

The onboard SATA ports work on the PDSME+.  One of these days I''m
going to pick up a couple of Supermicro''s 5-in-3 enclosures for mine:

  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121405


Scott

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 12:26 AM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Good news - I got snv_98 up without a hitch. So far, so good.
>
> Onboard video works great (well, console. Haven''t used X11)
> Top NIC works great (e1000g) - haven''t tried the second NIC
> Did not try the onboard SATA
> Two Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 PCI-X''s working well
>
> Here''s the specifics:
> - LIAN LI PC-V2110B Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case
> - PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI NVIDIA SLI
> Certified (Dual 8800 -GTX and below) CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified
> Active PFC Power Supply
> - SUPERMICRO MBD-PDSME+-O LGA 775 Intel 3010 ATX Server Motherboard
> - 2x Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) ECC
> Unbuffered Server Memory Model KVR667D2E5/2GI
> - 2x SUPERMICRO AOC-SAT2-MV8 64-bit PCI-X133MHz SATA Controller Card
> - 2x Seagate 160 gig for mirrored boot
> - 7x Seagate 1.5TB for data (second batch of 7 when I fill this batch)
>
> Just about all of it thanks to Newegg. I will need to pick up some
> 4-in-3 enclosures and a better CPU heatsink/fan - this is supposed to
> be quiet but it has an annoying hum. Weird. Anyway, so far so good.
> Hopefully the power supply can handle all 16 disks too...
>
> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:46 PM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> There''s plenty of 8 port, either full 8 or 6+2 combinations
etc.
>>
>> Anyway I went with a Supermicro PDSME+ which appears to work well
>> according to the HCL, and bought two of the AOC-SAT2-MV8''s and
will
>> just use those. It''s actually being delivered today...
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Joe S <js.lists at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> You may need an add-on SATA card. I haven''t come across
any 8 port motherboards.
>>>
>>> As far as chipsets are concerned, take a look at something with the
>>> Intel X38 chipset. It''s the only one of the desktop
chipsets that
>>> supports ECC ram. Coincidentally, it''s also the chipset
used in the
>>> Sun Ultra 24 workstation
>>> (http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra24/index.xml).
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>> I posted a thread here...
>>>> http://forums.opensolaris.com/thread.jspa?threadID=596
>>>>
>>>> I am trying to finish building a system and I kind of need to
pick
>>>> working NIC and onboard SATA chipsets (video is not a big deal
- I can
>>>> get a silent PCIe card for that, I already know one which works
great)
>>>>
>>>> I need 8 onboard SATA. I would prefer Intel CPU. At least one
gigabit
>>>> port. That''s about it.
>>>>
>>>> I built a list in that thread of all the options I found from
the
>>>> major manufacturers that Newegg has as the pool of possible
>>>> chipsets/etc... any help is appreciated (anyone actually using
any of
>>>> these) - and remember I''m trying to use Nevada out of
the box, not
>>>> have to download specific drivers and tweak all this myself...
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> zfs-discuss mailing list
>>>> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>>>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>>>>
>>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>

Oh, also I kind of doubt that a 750W power supply will spin 16 disks
up reliably.  I have 10 in mine with a 600W supply, and it''s
borderline--10 drives work, 11 doesn''t, and adding a couple extra PCI
cards has pushed mine over the edge before.  Most 3.5" drives want
about 30W at startup; that''d be around 780W with 16 drives.

I wish delayed spinup wasn''t such a pain with SATA.


Scott

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Scott Laird <scott at sigkill.org>
wrote:
> The onboard SATA ports work on the PDSME+.  One of these days I''m
> going to pick up a couple of Supermicro''s 5-in-3 enclosures for
mine:
>
>  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121405
>
>
> Scott
>
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 12:26 AM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Good news - I got snv_98 up without a hitch. So far, so good.
>>
>> Onboard video works great (well, console. Haven''t used X11)
>> Top NIC works great (e1000g) - haven''t tried the second NIC
>> Did not try the onboard SATA
>> Two Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 PCI-X''s working well
>>
>> Here''s the specifics:
>> - LIAN LI PC-V2110B Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case
>> - PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI NVIDIA SLI
>> Certified (Dual 8800 -GTX and below) CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified
>> Active PFC Power Supply
>> - SUPERMICRO MBD-PDSME+-O LGA 775 Intel 3010 ATX Server Motherboard
>> - 2x Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) ECC
>> Unbuffered Server Memory Model KVR667D2E5/2GI
>> - 2x SUPERMICRO AOC-SAT2-MV8 64-bit PCI-X133MHz SATA Controller Card
>> - 2x Seagate 160 gig for mirrored boot
>> - 7x Seagate 1.5TB for data (second batch of 7 when I fill this batch)
>>
>> Just about all of it thanks to Newegg. I will need to pick up some
>> 4-in-3 enclosures and a better CPU heatsink/fan - this is supposed to
>> be quiet but it has an annoying hum. Weird. Anyway, so far so good.
>> Hopefully the power supply can handle all 16 disks too...
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:46 PM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> There''s plenty of 8 port, either full 8 or 6+2
combinations etc.
>>>
>>> Anyway I went with a Supermicro PDSME+ which appears to work well
>>> according to the HCL, and bought two of the AOC-SAT2-MV8''s
and will
>>> just use those. It''s actually being delivered today...
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Joe S <js.lists at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>> You may need an add-on SATA card. I haven''t come
across any 8 port motherboards.
>>>>
>>>> As far as chipsets are concerned, take a look at something with
the
>>>> Intel X38 chipset. It''s the only one of the desktop
chipsets that
>>>> supports ECC ram. Coincidentally, it''s also the
chipset used in the
>>>> Sun Ultra 24 workstation
>>>> (http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra24/index.xml).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM, mike <mike503 at
gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I posted a thread here...
>>>>> http://forums.opensolaris.com/thread.jspa?threadID=596
>>>>>
>>>>> I am trying to finish building a system and I kind of need
to pick
>>>>> working NIC and onboard SATA chipsets (video is not a big
deal - I can
>>>>> get a silent PCIe card for that, I already know one which
works great)
>>>>>
>>>>> I need 8 onboard SATA. I would prefer Intel CPU. At least
one gigabit
>>>>> port. That''s about it.
>>>>>
>>>>> I built a list in that thread of all the options I found
from the
>>>>> major manufacturers that Newegg has as the pool of possible
>>>>> chipsets/etc... any help is appreciated (anyone actually
using any of
>>>>> these) - and remember I''m trying to use Nevada out
of the box, not
>>>>> have to download specific drivers and tweak all this
myself...
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> zfs-discuss mailing list
>>>>> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>>>>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> zfs-discuss mailing list
>> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>>
>

I was told here:
http://discuss.extremetech.com/forums/permalink/1004422973/1004422973/ShowThread.aspx#1004422973

That I''d need at least 40amps - and this PSU has a 12V rail with
60amps...

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 3:30 PM, Scott Laird <scott at sigkill.org>
wrote:
> Oh, also I kind of doubt that a 750W power supply will spin 16 disks
> up reliably.  I have 10 in mine with a 600W supply, and it''s
> borderline--10 drives work, 11 doesn''t, and adding a couple extra
PCI
> cards has pushed mine over the edge before.  Most 3.5" drives want
> about 30W at startup; that''d be around 780W with 16 drives.
>
> I wish delayed spinup wasn''t such a pain with SATA.
>
>
> Scott
>
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Scott Laird <scott at sigkill.org>
wrote:
>> The onboard SATA ports work on the PDSME+.  One of these days
I''m
>> going to pick up a couple of Supermicro''s 5-in-3 enclosures
for mine:
>>
>>  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121405
>>
>>
>> Scott
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 12:26 AM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>> Good news - I got snv_98 up without a hitch. So far, so good.
>>>
>>> Onboard video works great (well, console. Haven''t used
X11)
>>> Top NIC works great (e1000g) - haven''t tried the second
NIC
>>> Did not try the onboard SATA
>>> Two Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 PCI-X''s working well
>>>
>>> Here''s the specifics:
>>> - LIAN LI PC-V2110B Black Aluminum ATX Full Tower Computer Case
>>> - PC Power & Cooling S75QB 750W ATX12V / EPS12V SLI NVIDIA SLI
>>> Certified (Dual 8800 -GTX and below) CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS
Certified
>>> Active PFC Power Supply
>>> - SUPERMICRO MBD-PDSME+-O LGA 775 Intel 3010 ATX Server Motherboard
>>> - 2x Kingston 2GB 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 667 (PC2 5300) ECC
>>> Unbuffered Server Memory Model KVR667D2E5/2GI
>>> - 2x SUPERMICRO AOC-SAT2-MV8 64-bit PCI-X133MHz SATA Controller
Card
>>> - 2x Seagate 160 gig for mirrored boot
>>> - 7x Seagate 1.5TB for data (second batch of 7 when I fill this
batch)
>>>
>>> Just about all of it thanks to Newegg. I will need to pick up some
>>> 4-in-3 enclosures and a better CPU heatsink/fan - this is supposed
to
>>> be quiet but it has an annoying hum. Weird. Anyway, so far so good.
>>> Hopefully the power supply can handle all 16 disks too...
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 12:46 PM, mike <mike503 at gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>> There''s plenty of 8 port, either full 8 or 6+2
combinations etc.
>>>>
>>>> Anyway I went with a Supermicro PDSME+ which appears to work
well
>>>> according to the HCL, and bought two of the
AOC-SAT2-MV8''s and will
>>>> just use those. It''s actually being delivered today...
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 9, 2008 at 9:44 AM, Joe S <js.lists at
gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> You may need an add-on SATA card. I haven''t come
across any 8 port motherboards.
>>>>>
>>>>> As far as chipsets are concerned, take a look at something
with the
>>>>> Intel X38 chipset. It''s the only one of the
desktop chipsets that
>>>>> supports ECC ram. Coincidentally, it''s also the
chipset used in the
>>>>> Sun Ultra 24 workstation
>>>>> (http://www.sun.com/desktop/workstation/ultra24/index.xml).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 1:41 PM, mike <mike503 at
gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> I posted a thread here...
>>>>>> http://forums.opensolaris.com/thread.jspa?threadID=596
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am trying to finish building a system and I kind of
need to pick
>>>>>> working NIC and onboard SATA chipsets (video is not a
big deal - I can
>>>>>> get a silent PCIe card for that, I already know one
which works great)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need 8 onboard SATA. I would prefer Intel CPU. At
least one gigabit
>>>>>> port. That''s about it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I built a list in that thread of all the options I
found from the
>>>>>> major manufacturers that Newegg has as the pool of
possible
>>>>>> chipsets/etc... any help is appreciated (anyone
actually using any of
>>>>>> these) - and remember I''m trying to use Nevada
out of the box, not
>>>>>> have to download specific drivers and tweak all this
myself...
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> zfs-discuss mailing list
>>>>>> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>>>>>>
http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> zfs-discuss mailing list
>>> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
>>> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>>>
>>
>

Yeah for this plan I needed with 8 onboard SATA or another 8 port SATA
controller, so I opted just to get two of the PCI-X ones.

The Supermicro 5-in-3''s don''t have a fan alarm so you could
remove it
or find a quieter fan. I think most of them have quite noisy fans (the
main goal for this besides large amounts of storage was acoustics)

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 3:27 PM, Scott Laird <scott at sigkill.org>
wrote:
> The onboard SATA ports work on the PDSME+.  One of these days I''m
> going to pick up a couple of Supermicro''s 5-in-3 enclosures for
mine:
>
>  http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817121405
>
>
> Scott

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 18:30, Scott Laird <scott at sigkill.org>
wrote:
> Oh, also I kind of doubt that a 750W power supply will spin 16 disks
> up reliably.  I have 10 in mine with a 600W supply, and it''s
> borderline--10 drives work, 11 doesn''t, and adding a couple extra
PCI
> cards has pushed mine over the edge before.
Power supply stress survival is more a function of dollars paid (or
pounds weighed, if you like) than of any of the numbers on the box.
I''ve done 14 drives on a 550W power supply (with no problems).
Reputable places to search for power supply reviews are [1] and [2]
(and others---but those are a good start).
> Most 3.5" drives want
> about 30W at startup; that''d be around 780W with 16 drives.
I''m not sure what kind of math you''re using here.  My Q6600
with 4
gigs of memory, a couple addon cards, 4 3.5 disks, 2 2.5 disks, and
some fans and so forth draws a measly 140 watts with full CPU load and
idle disks.  A "normal" home file server system (i.e.,
doesn''t have
FBDIMMs) probably doesn''t draw more than 150 not counting drives.  30W
for a drive at spinup is a conservative (and therefore
wise-to-plan-for) estimate---but in a pinch, real draw is usually more
on the order of 20W.

So the 750W power supply I have is probably okay for 30 disks, for ten
minutes, if the alternative is certain death... but a more reasonable
maximum load is probably 18 or so disks.

Will

[1]:
http://www.hardocp.com/reviews.html?cat=NDUsUFNVIC8gUG93ZXIgU3VwcGxpZXMsaGVudGh1c2lhc3Q[2]:
http://jonnyguru.com/modules.php?name=NDReviews&op=Review_Cat&recatnum=13

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 4:12 PM, Will Murnane <will.murnane at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 18:30, Scott Laird <scott at sigkill.org>
wrote:
>> Oh, also I kind of doubt that a 750W power supply will spin 16 disks
>> up reliably.  I have 10 in mine with a 600W supply, and it''s
>> borderline--10 drives work, 11 doesn''t, and adding a couple
extra PCI
>> cards has pushed mine over the edge before.
> Power supply stress survival is more a function of dollars paid (or
> pounds weighed, if you like) than of any of the numbers on the box.
> I''ve done 14 drives on a 550W power supply (with no problems).
> Reputable places to search for power supply reviews are [1] and [2]
> (and others---but those are a good start).
>
>> Most 3.5" drives want
>> about 30W at startup; that''d be around 780W with 16 drives.
> I''m not sure what kind of math you''re using here.
See
http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/desktop/Barracuda%207200.11/100452348b.pdf

Seagate claims 2.8A @ 12V per drive at startup.  That''s 33.6W.  The
operating draw is way lower--the last time I measured my E2160 + 10
disk system drew around 130W while idling and not a whole lot more
while active.


Scott

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 23:51, Scott Laird <scott at sigkill.org>
wrote:
>>> Most 3.5" drives want
>>> about 30W at startup; that''d be around 780W with 16
drives.
>> I''m not sure what kind of math you''re using here.
>
> See
http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/desktop/Barracuda%207200.11/100452348b.pdf
>
> Seagate claims 2.8A @ 12V per drive at startup.  That''s 33.6W. 
The
> operating draw is way lower--the last time I measured my E2160 + 10
> disk system drew around 130W while idling and not a whole lot more
> while active.
2.8A at startup sounds about right.  I still like my 20W-per-drive
rule of thumb for home systems; well-built power supplies can
momentarily deliver more than design power to account for spinup, and
in the event of a failure one can RMA or replace the dead supply with
little impact.  But my original point was that 16 times 30 is 480, not
780; 300 extra watts for a system is something I''d expect to see from
a 16-core machine or something.  There''s some advantage to allowing
overhead in one''s power supply choice (capacitors aging), but 40% is a
bit much.

For work use, of course, design for redundancy and uptime.  But for
most things I''d use a home server for, spending that kind of money is
a waste.  Money one would spend on a gargantuan power supply to sit in
your basement is generally better invested in an off-site backup, even
if all the difference buys is a DVD that you leave at Grandma''s house
when you visit.

Will

PS: None of this stops me from wanting the work-grade stuff at home...

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 8:38 PM, Will Murnane <will.murnane at gmail.com>
wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 23:51, Scott Laird <scott at sigkill.org>
wrote:
>>>> Most 3.5" drives want
>>>> about 30W at startup; that''d be around 780W with 16
drives.
>>> I''m not sure what kind of math you''re using here.
>>
>> See
http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/desktop/Barracuda%207200.11/100452348b.pdf
>>
>> Seagate claims 2.8A @ 12V per drive at startup.  That''s 33.6W.
The
>> operating draw is way lower--the last time I measured my E2160 + 10
>> disk system drew around 130W while idling and not a whole lot more
>> while active.
> 2.8A at startup sounds about right.  I still like my 20W-per-drive
> rule of thumb for home systems; well-built power supplies can
> momentarily deliver more than design power to account for spinup, and
> in the event of a failure one can RMA or replace the dead supply with
> little impact.  But my original point was that 16 times 30 is 480, not
> 780; 300 extra watts for a system is something I''d expect to see
from
> a 16-core machine or something.  There''s some advantage to
allowing
> overhead in one''s power supply choice (capacitors aging), but 40%
is a
> bit much.
Your rule of thumb is probably good logic - although one could debate
the number forever.  Your 20W number seems reasonable to me - and +1
that a premium PSU can tolerate some abuse for the 30 Seconds or so
required during drive spinup.
> For work use, of course, design for redundancy and uptime.  But for
> most things I''d use a home server for, spending that kind of money
is
> a waste.  Money one would spend on a gargantuan power supply to sit in
Another issue here is that the PSU will only be efficient over a
certain, limited, range of power output.  If you install a monster PSU
 (say 1000Watts) and your average system power consumption is 300
Watts - then the PSU may not be operating in the power range where its
efficiency is optimum.  This inefficiency will be reflected in your
power bill.
> your basement is generally better invested in an off-site backup, even
> if all the difference buys is a DVD that you leave at Grandma''s
house
> when you visit.
I detect some technical confusion reading this thread.  A lot of
posters are talking watts (power supply watts), one poster is talking
watts from the wall (plug) and no-one is quoting power consumption for
the CPU - which can vary greatly depending on the CPU model # and what
the CPU is doing at any given time.

The important point is to look at power consumed in *amps* from the
12volt section of the power supply.  The CPU(s) are pulling most of
its power from the 12v section of the PSU.  So, total up the the
required amperage from the 12v section of the PSU (including
everything that draws power from it[1]) and then carefully examine the
available power from the 12v output(s) of the PSU.  Ignore total power
supply wattage.

One potential issue is that some PSU manufacturers don''t publish the
power (in amps) available from the 12v section of the power supply -
except on many of the top-end, premium PSUs  where there will probably
be 2 separate 12 outputs and the data is generally available - and
then you''ll have the challenge of balancing the load across both 12v
sections.

The exception to the "rule" of multiple 12v output sections is PC
Power & Cooling - who claim that there is no technical advantage to
having multiple 12v outputs (and this "feature" is only a marketing
gimmick).  But now that they have merged with OCZ - who always claimed
that there are advantages to multiple 12v output sections ... I''m not
sure where they stand today.  In any case the PC Power & Cooling PSUs
are premium, reliable, high performance parts in my personal
experience - altough their "Silencer" products are far from silent in
my experience!  :)

In the "old" days of (parallel) SCSI, you had staggered drive startup
available (based on the drives SCSI ID).  In that respect we seem to
have taken a step backwards with SATA drive technology.

[1] 12v power is used for the CPU, fans, graphics cards, controllers,
disk drives .... etc.
> Will
>
> PS: None of this stops me from wanting the work-grade stuff at home...
+1

Regards,

-- 
Al Hopper  Logical Approach Inc,Plano,TX al at logical-approach.com
                   Voice: 972.379.2133 Timezone: US CDT
OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Apr 2005 to Mar 2007
http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/ogb/ogb_2005-2007/

On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 9:13 PM, Al Hopper <al at logical-approach.com>
wrote:
> The exception to the "rule" of multiple 12v output sections is PC
> Power & Cooling - who claim that there is no technical advantage to
> having multiple 12v outputs (and this "feature" is only a
marketing
> gimmick).  But now that they have merged with OCZ - who always claimed
> that there are advantages to multiple 12v output sections ... I''m
not
> sure where they stand today.  In any case the PC Power & Cooling PSUs
> are premium, reliable, high performance parts in my personal
> experience - altough their "Silencer" products are far from
silent in
> my experience!  :)
it''s good to have that vote of confidence as i picked that brand :)

> On Wed, Oct 15, 2008 at 9:13 PM, Al Hopper <al at
logical-approach.com> wrote:
>> The exception to the "rule" of multiple 12v output sections
is PC
>> Power & Cooling - who claim that there is no technical advantage to
>> having multiple 12v outputs (and this "feature" is only a
marketing
>> gimmick).  But now that they have merged with OCZ - who always claimed
>> that there are advantages to multiple 12v output sections ...
I''m not
>> sure where they stand today.  In any case the PC Power & Cooling
PSUs
>> are premium, reliable, high performance parts in my personal
>> experience - altough their "Silencer" products are far from
silent in
>> my experience!  :)
Well that depends, you can build a power supply with multiple isolated
12V rails. I would hope this is what they mean when they specify
multiple 12V outputs with equal/different current/load ratings.