theora dev - Sep 2002 - Limiting bandwidth to around max. 8k per second - possible? UPDATE

Ok, we got it working with 176x144 resolution.

The following string produced an image that was not falling behind too
much for too long - basically a little when it was getting TONS of
movement, and then catching up fast.
"65 58 110 0 1 1 90 8 120 1 1 "

Now, we need to get this working on a 320x240 resolution, too (as sadly
VP3 does not support 160x120. Seems to be a little senseless, though.
Whatever we do, we dont get the bandwidth down enough. Now, we need one
of the "standard resolutions" (160x120 or multiples) for some cameras
here to work.

Any hint?

Thomas Tomiczek
THONA Consulting Ltd.
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)

<p>-----Original Message-----
From: Thomas Tomiczek 
Sent: Mittwoch, 4. September 2002 15:34
To: theora-dev@xiph.org
Subject: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to around max. 8k per second -
possible? Working?

<p>Hello, 
I am using the latest binary download from vp32.com, just as a starter. 
We try using the VP32 codec in a video conferencing application,
replacing Intel indeo for obvious reasons. I must note that I have
considered contacting ON2 for a license of the VP5 codec, but after
sending emails for amore than a week and never getting back calls after
they were announced, and after not reaching anyone early in the office
there (and I have a substantial time difference), I have decided that we
will not license anything for the time being. Dan, you might take this
as a hint - have someone contact us with an OFFER and have him behave
like a professional, and you might make a sale for our 1.2 or 1.3
release in Q1.
Now, our problem is that our video conference runs on2 ISDN lines. I
have a bandwidth of around 9k per second. Not more, and low latency.
Worked flawless with Intel Indeo :-)
We are currently playing around with the bandwidth in the "encoded
registry string", and the string we use right now is 
        "50 5 30 0 1 1 60 30 300 2 2 " 
The first number is meant to be the target b nadwidth, right? I tried it
with 80, then wend down and down. 
Till now, we have the problem that we are falling behind. Substantially.
Nothing seems to be able to change this. Now, for a short moment that is
not a problem - we run a .3 second delay. But we are CONSTANTLY
generating WAY too much data.
Any hint here? Might be the first big size project that you guys can
take officially as a reference, but not if we have to stay with Intel
Indeo because it does not work.
Thomas Tomiczek 
THONA Consulting Ltd. 
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET) 
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If you absolutely must input 160x120, why not just scale 
it to 172x144 so that VP3 works? The images are small 
enough that there really shouldn't be that much 
overhead...

-Henry   

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Tomiczek" 
<t.tomiczek@thona-consulting.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:50:14 +0200
To: <theora-dev@xiph.org>
Subject: RE: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to around 
max. 8k per second - possible? UPDATE

<p>> Ok, we got it working with 176x144
resolution.
> 
> The following string produced an image that was not 
falling behind too
> much for too long - basically a little when it was 
getting TONS of
> movement, and then catching up fast.
> "65 58 110 0 1 1 90 8 120 1 1 "
> 
> Now, we need to get this working on a 320x240 
resolution, too (as sadly
> VP3 does not support 160x120. Seems to be a little 
senseless, though.
> Whatever we do, we dont get the bandwidth down 
enough. Now, we need one
> of the "standard resolutions" (160x120 or multiples) 
for some cameras
> here to work.
> 
> Any hint?
> 
> Thomas Tomiczek
> THONA Consulting Ltd.
> (Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Tomiczek 
> Sent: Mittwoch, 4. September 2002 15:34
> To: theora-dev@xiph.org
> Subject: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to around 
max. 8k per second -
> possible? Working?
> 
> 
> Hello, 
> I am using the latest binary download from vp32.com, 
just as a starter. 
> We try using the VP32 codec in a video conferencing 
application,
> replacing Intel indeo for obvious reasons. I must note 
that I have
> considered contacting ON2 for a license of the VP5 
codec, but after
> sending emails for amore than a week and never 
getting back calls after
> they were announced, and after not reaching anyone 
early in the office
> there (and I have a substantial time difference), I have 
decided that we
> will not license anything for the time being. Dan, you 
might take this
> as a hint - have someone contact us with an OFFER 
and have him behave
> like a professional, and you might make a sale for our 
1.2 or 1.3
> release in Q1.
> Now, our problem is that our video conference runs 
on2 ISDN lines. I
> have a bandwidth of around 9k per second. Not more, 
and low latency.
> Worked flawless with Intel Indeo :-)
> We are currently playing around with the bandwidth in 
the "encoded
> registry string", and the string we use right now is 
>         "50 5 30 0 1 1 60 30 300 2 2 " 
> The first number is meant to be the target b nadwidth, 
right? I tried it
> with 80, then wend down and down. 
> Till now, we have the problem that we are falling 
behind. Substantially.
> Nothing seems to be able to change this. Now, for a 
short moment that is
> not a problem - we run a .3 second delay. But we are 
CONSTANTLY
> generating WAY too much data.
> Any hint here? Might be the first big size project that 
you guys can
> take officially as a reference, but not if we have to stay 
with Intel
> Indeo because it does not work.
> Thomas Tomiczek 
> THONA Consulting Ltd. 
> (Microsoft MVP C#/.NET) 
> --- >8 ----
> List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 
'theora-dev-request@xiph.org'
> containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  
No subject is needed.
> Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be 
ignored/filtered.
> 
> 
    

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Sure :-) You have a DirectShow filter that does this? Best with bilinear
filtering?

I thought of it, but have problems even getting the algorythms.

We make some progress on 320x240, though - basically by going to 5fps
etc.

Hm, the quality is not that bad - actually comparable to Indeo now.
Smoother (blurry, so to say), but no fragments, though. In general could
be comparable.

Makes me interested in VP5, but I am unable to get a quote out of ON2,
so - well- their problem :-)

No, looks like we slowly move forward. Lets see what result we get
tomorrow.

Thomas Tomiczek
THONA Consulting Ltd.
(Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)

-----Original Message-----
From: Henry Mason [mailto:hip245@operamail.com] 
Sent: Mittwoch, 4. September 2002 18:07
To: theora-dev@xiph.org
Subject: RE: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to around max. 8k per
second - possible? UPDATE

<p>If you absolutely must input 160x120, why not just scale 
it to 172x144 so that VP3 works? The images are small 
enough that there really shouldn't be that much 
overhead...

-Henry   

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Tomiczek" 
<t.tomiczek@thona-consulting.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:50:14 +0200
To: <theora-dev@xiph.org>
Subject: RE: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to around 
max. 8k per second - possible? UPDATE

<p>> Ok, we got it working with 176x144
resolution.
> 
> The following string produced an image that was not
falling behind too
> much for too long - basically a little when it was
getting TONS of
> movement, and then catching up fast.
> "65 58 110 0 1 1 90 8 120 1 1 "
> 
> Now, we need to get this working on a 320x240
resolution, too (as sadly
> VP3 does not support 160x120. Seems to be a little
senseless, though.
> Whatever we do, we dont get the bandwidth down
enough. Now, we need one
> of the "standard resolutions" (160x120 or multiples)
for some cameras
> here to work.
> 
> Any hint?
> 
> Thomas Tomiczek
> THONA Consulting Ltd.
> (Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Tomiczek
> Sent: Mittwoch, 4. September 2002 15:34
> To: theora-dev@xiph.org
> Subject: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to around 
max. 8k per second -
> possible? Working?
> 
> 
> Hello,
> I am using the latest binary download from vp32.com, 
just as a starter. 
> We try using the VP32 codec in a video conferencing
application,
> replacing Intel indeo for obvious reasons. I must note
that I have
> considered contacting ON2 for a license of the VP5
codec, but after
> sending emails for amore than a week and never
getting back calls after
> they were announced, and after not reaching anyone
early in the office
> there (and I have a substantial time difference), I have
decided that we
> will not license anything for the time being. Dan, you
might take this
> as a hint - have someone contact us with an OFFER
and have him behave
> like a professional, and you might make a sale for our
1.2 or 1.3
> release in Q1.
> Now, our problem is that our video conference runs
on2 ISDN lines. I
> have a bandwidth of around 9k per second. Not more,
and low latency.
> Worked flawless with Intel Indeo :-)
> We are currently playing around with the bandwidth in
the "encoded
> registry string", and the string we use right now is 
>         "50 5 30 0 1 1 60 30 300 2 2 "
> The first number is meant to be the target b nadwidth, 
right? I tried it
> with 80, then wend down and down.
> Till now, we have the problem that we are falling 
behind. Substantially.
> Nothing seems to be able to change this. Now, for a
short moment that is
> not a problem - we run a .3 second delay. But we are
CONSTANTLY
> generating WAY too much data.
> Any hint here? Might be the first big size project that
you guys can
> take officially as a reference, but not if we have to stay
with Intel
> Indeo because it does not work.
> Thomas Tomiczek
> THONA Consulting Ltd. 
> (Microsoft MVP C#/.NET) 
> --- >8 ----
> List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 
'theora-dev-request@xiph.org'
> containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.
No subject is needed.
> Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be
ignored/filtered.
> 
> 
    

-- 
_______________________________________________
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Does this DS filter not work?

http://moonlight.co.il/products/ir.shtml    

-Henry

----- Original Message -----
From: "Thomas Tomiczek" 
<t.tomiczek@thona-consulting.com>
Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 18:10:04 +0200
To: <theora-dev@xiph.org>
Subject: RE: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to around 
max. 8k per second    - possible? UPDATE

<p>> Sure :-) You have a DirectShow filter that does this? 
Best with bilinear
> filtering?
> 
> I thought of it, but have problems even getting the 
algorythms.
> 
> We make some progress on 320x240, though - 
basically by going to 5fps
> etc.
> 
> Hm, the quality is not that bad - actually comparable 
to Indeo now.
> Smoother (blurry, so to say), but no fragments, 
though. In general could
> be comparable.
> 
> Makes me interested in VP5, but I am unable to get a 
quote out of ON2,
> so - well- their problem :-)
> 
> No, looks like we slowly move forward. Lets see what 
result we get
> tomorrow.
> 
> Thomas Tomiczek
> THONA Consulting Ltd.
> (Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Henry Mason [mailto:hip245@operamail.com] 
> Sent: Mittwoch, 4. September 2002 18:07
> To: theora-dev@xiph.org
> Subject: RE: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to 
around max. 8k per
> second - possible? UPDATE
> 
> 
> If you absolutely must input 160x120, why not just 
scale 
> it to 172x144 so that VP3 works? The images are 
small 
> enough that there really shouldn't be that much 
> overhead...
> 
> -Henry   
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Thomas Tomiczek" 
> <t.tomiczek@thona-consulting.com>
> Date: Wed, 4 Sep 2002 16:50:14 +0200
> To: <theora-dev@xiph.org>
> Subject: RE: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to 
around 
> max. 8k per second - possible? UPDATE
> 
> 
> > Ok, we got it working with 176x144 resolution.
> > 
> > The following string produced an image that was 
not
> falling behind too
> > much for too long - basically a little when it was
> getting TONS of
> > movement, and then catching up fast.
> > "65 58 110 0 1 1 90 8 120 1 1 "
> > 
> > Now, we need to get this working on a 320x240
> resolution, too (as sadly
> > VP3 does not support 160x120. Seems to be a little
> senseless, though.
> > Whatever we do, we dont get the bandwidth down
> enough. Now, we need one
> > of the "standard resolutions" (160x120 or multiples)
> for some cameras
> > here to work.
> > 
> > Any hint?
> > 
> > Thomas Tomiczek
> > THONA Consulting Ltd.
> > (Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
> > 
> > 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Thomas Tomiczek
> > Sent: Mittwoch, 4. September 2002 15:34
> > To: theora-dev@xiph.org
> > Subject: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to around 
> max. 8k per second -
> > possible? Working?
> > 
> > 
> > Hello,
> > I am using the latest binary download from 
vp32.com, 
> just as a starter. 
> > We try using the VP32 codec in a video 
conferencing
> application,
> > replacing Intel indeo for obvious reasons. I must 
note
> that I have
> > considered contacting ON2 for a license of the VP5
> codec, but after
> > sending emails for amore than a week and never
> getting back calls after
> > they were announced, and after not reaching 
anyone
> early in the office
> > there (and I have a substantial time difference), I 
have
> decided that we
> > will not license anything for the time being. Dan, you
> might take this
> > as a hint - have someone contact us with an OFFER
> and have him behave
> > like a professional, and you might make a sale for 
our
> 1.2 or 1.3
> > release in Q1.
> > Now, our problem is that our video conference runs
> on2 ISDN lines. I
> > have a bandwidth of around 9k per second. Not 
more,
> and low latency.
> > Worked flawless with Intel Indeo :-)
> > We are currently playing around with the bandwidth 
in
> the "encoded
> > registry string", and the string we use right now is 
> >         "50 5 30 0 1 1 60 30 300 2 2 "
> > The first number is meant to be the target b 
nadwidth, 
> right? I tried it
> > with 80, then wend down and down.
> > Till now, we have the problem that we are falling 
> behind. Substantially.
> > Nothing seems to be able to change this. Now, for a
> short moment that is
> > not a problem - we run a .3 second delay. But we 
are
> CONSTANTLY
> > generating WAY too much data.
> > Any hint here? Might be the first big size project that
> you guys can
> > take officially as a reference, but not if we have to 
stay
> with Intel
> > Indeo because it does not work.
> > Thomas Tomiczek
> > THONA Consulting Ltd. 
> > (Microsoft MVP C#/.NET) 
> > --- >8 ----
> > List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> > Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
> > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 
> 'theora-dev-request@xiph.org'
> > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.
> No subject is needed.
> > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be
> ignored/filtered.
> > 
> > 
> 
>     
> -- 
> 
___________________________________________
____
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the resolution problem arises because 120 is not divisible by 16.  This
could be fixed but it would take a bit of work.

 ___  Dan Miller
(++,) CTO and founder, On2 Technologies

On Wed, 4 Sep 2002, Thomas Tomiczek wrote:
> Ok, we got it working with 176x144 resolution.
>
> The following string produced an image that was not falling behind too
> much for too long - basically a little when it was getting TONS of
> movement, and then catching up fast.
> "65 58 110 0 1 1 90 8 120 1 1 "
>
> Now, we need to get this working on a 320x240 resolution, too (as sadly
> VP3 does not support 160x120. Seems to be a little senseless, though.
> Whatever we do, we dont get the bandwidth down enough. Now, we need one
> of the "standard resolutions" (160x120 or multiples) for some
cameras
> here to work.
>
> Any hint?
>
> Thomas Tomiczek
> THONA Consulting Ltd.
> (Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Thomas Tomiczek
> Sent: Mittwoch, 4. September 2002 15:34
> To: theora-dev@xiph.org
> Subject: [theora-dev] Limiting bandwidth to around max. 8k per second -
> possible? Working?
>
>
> Hello,
> I am using the latest binary download from vp32.com, just as a starter.
> We try using the VP32 codec in a video conferencing application,
> replacing Intel indeo for obvious reasons. I must note that I have
> considered contacting ON2 for a license of the VP5 codec, but after
> sending emails for amore than a week and never getting back calls after
> they were announced, and after not reaching anyone early in the office
> there (and I have a substantial time difference), I have decided that we
> will not license anything for the time being. Dan, you might take this
> as a hint - have someone contact us with an OFFER and have him behave
> like a professional, and you might make a sale for our 1.2 or 1.3
> release in Q1.
> Now, our problem is that our video conference runs on2 ISDN lines. I
> have a bandwidth of around 9k per second. Not more, and low latency.
> Worked flawless with Intel Indeo :-)
> We are currently playing around with the bandwidth in the "encoded
> registry string", and the string we use right now is
>         "50 5 30 0 1 1 60 30 300 2 2 "
> The first number is meant to be the target b nadwidth, right? I tried it
> with 80, then wend down and down.
> Till now, we have the problem that we are falling behind. Substantially.
> Nothing seems to be able to change this. Now, for a short moment that is
> not a problem - we run a .3 second delay. But we are CONSTANTLY
> generating WAY too much data.
> Any hint here? Might be the first big size project that you guys can
> take officially as a reference, but not if we have to stay with Intel
> Indeo because it does not work.
> Thomas Tomiczek
> THONA Consulting Ltd.
> (Microsoft MVP C#/.NET)
> --- >8 ----
> List archives:  http://www.xiph.org/archives/
> Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/
> To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to
'theora-dev-request@xiph.org'
> containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body.  No subject is
needed.
> Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
>
--- >8 ----
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