Earlier today I sent a question to Frank Harrell as an R developer with whom I am most familiar. He suggested also that I put my questions to the list for additional responses. Next month I'll be giving a talk on R as an example of high quality open source software. I think there is much to learn from R as a high quality extensible product that (at least as far as I can tell) has never been "spun" or "hyped" like so many open source fads. The question that intrigues me the most is why is R as an open source project is so incredibly successful and other projects, say for example, Octave don't enjoy that level of success? I have some ideas of course, but I would really like to know your thoughts when you look at R from such a vantage point. Thanks. Kathy Gerber University of Virginia ITC - Research Computing Support
On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Kathy Gerber <kathy at virginia.edu> wrote:> Earlier today I sent a question to Frank Harrell as an R developer with > whom I am most familiar. He suggested also that I put my questions to > the list for additional responses. Next month I'll be giving a talk on > R as an example of high quality open source software. I think there is > much to learn from R as a high quality extensible product that (at least > as far as I can tell) has never been "spun" or "hyped" like so many open > source fads.> The question that intrigues me the most is why is R as an open source > project is so incredibly successful and other projects, say for example, > Octave don't enjoy that level of success?First and foremost there is the incredible generosity of Ross Ihaka and Robert Gentleman who, after spending an enormous amount of time and effort in development of the initial implementation, did not demand exclusive ownership of their work but allowed others to make changes. I believe Martin Maechler was the first non-Auckland person to get write access to the source code repository and I'm sure that the good experience of working at a distance with Martin persuaded R & R to open it up to others. Martin is polite, considerate, meticulous and precise (he is a German-speaking Swiss so meticulous and precise kind of comes with the territory) and you couldn't ask for a first experience in sharing something that is very valuable to you with someone whom you may never have met in person. Not everyone has been that pleasant to work with. One of the first things that I did when I joined R-core was to blow up at Kurt and Fritz about something - on Christmas Eve! I surprised the group didn't boot me out after that start. When a project is gaining momentum the personalities of the initial developers have a big influence on its success. The R project has been fortunate in that regard.> I have some ideas of course, but I would really like to know your > thoughts when you look at R from such a vantage point.> Thanks. > Kathy Gerber > University of Virginia > ITC - Research Computing Support > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >
Dear Kathy, As Achim has mentioned, I've been doing interviews with members of the R Core team and with some other people central to the R Project. Although I haven't entirely organized and finished reflecting on this material, the following factors come immediately to mind: (1) Doug has already mentioned the personal and technical talents of the original developers, and their generosity in opening up development to a Core group and in making R open source. To that I would add the collective talents of the Core group as a whole. (2) R implements the S language, which already was in wide use, and which has many attractive features (each of use, etc.). (3) The R package system and the establishment of CRAN allowed literally hundreds of developers to contribute to the broader R Project. More generally, the Core group worked to integrate users into the R Project, e.g., through R News, the r-help list (though naive users aren't always treated gently there), and the useR conferences. Regards, John -------------------------------- John Fox, Professor Department of Sociology McMaster University Hamilton, Ontario, Canada L8S 4M4 905-525-9140x23604 http://socserv.mcmaster.ca/jfox> -----Original Message----- > From: r-help-bounces at r-project.org [mailto:r-help-bounces at r- > project.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Gerber > Sent: February-15-08 2:53 PM > To: r-help at r-project.org > Subject: [R] History of R > > Earlier today I sent a question to Frank Harrell as an R developer with > whom I am most familiar. He suggested also that I put my questions to > the list for additional responses. Next month I'll be giving a talk on > R as an example of high quality open source software. I think there is > much to learn from R as a high quality extensible product that (at > least > as far as I can tell) has never been "spun" or "hyped" like so many > open > source fads. > > The question that intrigues me the most is why is R as an open source > project is so incredibly successful and other projects, say for > example, > Octave don't enjoy that level of success? > > I have some ideas of course, but I would really like to know your > thoughts when you look at R from such a vantage point. > > Thanks. > Kathy Gerber > University of Virginia > ITC - Research Computing Support > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting- > guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
Hi Kathy, maybe this article could be also of use for you? Ihaka, R., and Gentleman, R. (1996)," R: A Language for Data Analysis and Graphics," The Journal of Computational and Graphical Statistics, 5, 299-314 Best, Roland Kathy Gerber wrote:> Earlier today I sent a question to Frank Harrell as an R developer with > whom I am most familiar. He suggested also that I put my questions to > the list for additional responses. Next month I'll be giving a talk on > R as an example of high quality open source software. I think there is > much to learn from R as a high quality extensible product that (at least > as far as I can tell) has never been "spun" or "hyped" like so many open > source fads. > > The question that intrigues me the most is why is R as an open source > project is so incredibly successful and other projects, say for example, > Octave don't enjoy that level of success? > > I have some ideas of course, but I would really like to know your > thoughts when you look at R from such a vantage point. > > Thanks. > Kathy Gerber > University of Virginia > ITC - Research Computing Support > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >
Kathy Gerber wrote:> > Earlier today I sent a question to Frank Harrell as an R developer with > whom I am most familiar. He suggested also that I put my questions to > the list for additional responses. Next month I'll be giving a talk on > R as an example of high quality open source software. I think there is > much to learn from R as a high quality extensible product that (at least > as far as I can tell) has never been "spun" or "hyped" like so many open > source fads. > > The question that intrigues me the most is why is R as an open source > project is so incredibly successful and other projects, say for example, > Octave don't enjoy that level of success? > > I have some ideas of course, but I would really like to know your > thoughts when you look at R from such a vantage point. > > Thanks. > Kathy Gerber > University of Virginia > ITC - Research Computing Support > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > >Kathy, If you don't mind, I'll also throw in my perspective as a 60+ year-old new-comer to R. For me there are at least three hugely appealing aspects to R. First, since it is totally free, R is accessible to those poor in material wealth but rich in intellectual curiosity wherever they live. I personally think that is extremely important. Second, contributors to R are selflessly and continuously doing quite a lot to improve approaches to the analysis of data (and there is such a rich history of that growing daily). I have to say that I am in awe of what I see already developed in R and know from the frequency of updates that the entire enterprise is alive, well and growing. Third, R is just flat out wonderful - I know it rekindles my energy making me feel like a "kid in a candy store" again who wants to see what's new, learn more, and contribute. I truthfully can't think of another element in my professional life that makes me feel so strongly this way. I've never seen anything before like R and I'm just grateful to have lived long enough to experience it. I know that I owe a debt of gratitude to R-developers from top to bottom - and I'm certain I'm not alone in this. In summary, let me just say WOW! You can bet that I've incorporated R into all the graduate classes I teach. It so challenges and opens the imagination. Andy Bush ps This is not a solicited remark. It is simply what I personally think and feel. -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/History-of-R-tp15508906p15578677.html Sent from the R help mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
I agree with what others have said, the R core team is a great and unique group. There are a couple of ideas that I would like to add that may have played a part in the level of growth that R has had. I think timing has played a part. The field of statistics has matured along with the computer. Math and the other sciences were already mature and established before computers came along, statistics is a much younger science and we were better able to develop our use of computers as computers developed. Also when you look at the trends of comercial packages in the 90's you see that a big focus in the comercial stats packages was on developing easier to use graphical user interfaces, the money at the time was in expanding to new users who were not as technical, and comercial companies need to go where the money is. This meant that the power users who wanted more flexibility and did not care as much about ease of use would natually migrate to R which was not interested in following the money. Another thing to take into account is that R is a package used by statisticians and statisticians are naturally a collaborative group. -- Gregory (Greg) L. Snow Ph.D. Statistical Data Center Intermountain Healthcare greg.snow at imail.org (801) 408-8111> -----Original Message----- > From: r-help-bounces at r-project.org > [mailto:r-help-bounces at r-project.org] On Behalf Of Kathy Gerber > Sent: Friday, February 15, 2008 12:53 PM > To: r-help at r-project.org > Subject: [R] History of R > > Earlier today I sent a question to Frank Harrell as an R > developer with whom I am most familiar. He suggested also > that I put my questions to the list for additional responses. > Next month I'll be giving a talk on R as an example of high > quality open source software. I think there is much to learn > from R as a high quality extensible product that (at least as > far as I can tell) has never been "spun" or "hyped" like so > many open source fads. > > The question that intrigues me the most is why is R as an > open source project is so incredibly successful and other > projects, say for example, Octave don't enjoy that level of success? > > I have some ideas of course, but I would really like to know > your thoughts when you look at R from such a vantage point. > > Thanks. > Kathy Gerber > University of Virginia > ITC - Research Computing Support > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >
Kathy The dedication of the developers and several other important things have already been mentioned. Here are a few points I have not seen. - I believe S was originally open source (before the term existed and before GPL, and license issues were probably clouded with respect to changing the code). This meant parts of the community of S user had this tradition. Some, no doubt, were a bit upset about the Splus move to closed source. - This community had also significantly contributed to Statlib, so there were some "packages" that could be leveraged in the beginning. This may have been not so important for what the packages did, but for the fact that they gave an extensive test suite, so one could have considerable confidence in the results. - Purchase cost is typically not so important for corporate and institutional users, since it is usually dominated by support costs. However, young users may often feel they would prefer to have their personal investment in something they can easily take with them if they move. Some of us at the other end like the idea that we don't need a corporate account to continue research we might be interested in doing when we retire. - All risk averse users should like the idea that programs and acquired skills are not tied to the operating system and hardware flavor of the month. (R has excelled in this respect.) - Help on the R lists has always been exceptionally good (sometimes even if you don't read the documentation first - but expect to be chastised). If you look at the S help list over the past 15 years, you will find many of the most difficult questions were answered by people involved with R. - I ran my own code interchangeably in Splus and R for many years (starting with R-0.16). For a long time Splus was "production" and R was so I would have a backup. For me, the defining factor in moving to R for "production" was the introduction of the "package" system. This is really special in the way that it develops the synergy of the community. By packaging your code you get to leverage all the code checking and documentation checking of the system, and you get to add your own tests that run automatically when you build your package. Not only that, but if you make your package availabe on CRAN you get not only the useful feedback from users, but also the automatic information about what is going to break in your code in the next release of R (from the daily checks on multiple platforms). This is not only useful to package developers, but provides R itself with what I would guess is the largest automatic test bed in the industry. The system is also interesting in the way that it has resolved one of the big problems of Statlib: there is an automatic mechanism for removing broken and unmaintained packages. Paul Gilbert Kathy Gerber wrote:> Earlier today I sent a question to Frank Harrell as an R developer with > whom I am most familiar. He suggested also that I put my questions to > the list for additional responses. Next month I'll be giving a talk on > R as an example of high quality open source software. I think there is > much to learn from R as a high quality extensible product that (at least > as far as I can tell) has never been "spun" or "hyped" like so many open > source fads. > > The question that intrigues me the most is why is R as an open source > project is so incredibly successful and other projects, say for example, > Octave don't enjoy that level of success? > > I have some ideas of course, but I would really like to know your > thoughts when you look at R from such a vantage point. > > Thanks. > Kathy Gerber > University of Virginia > ITC - Research Computing Support > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.=================================================================================== La version fran?aise suit le texte anglais. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ This email may contain privileged and/or confidential information, and the Bank of Canada does not waive any related rights. 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Kathy, You might find some relevant reading in volume 13 of the Journal of Statistical Software: http://www.jstatsoft.org/v13 Some of the papers have a bit of discussion on why R has become more widely used than lisp-stat. K Wright On Fri, Feb 15, 2008 at 1:53 PM, Kathy Gerber <kathy at virginia.edu> wrote:> Earlier today I sent a question to Frank Harrell as an R developer with > whom I am most familiar. He suggested also that I put my questions to > the list for additional responses. Next month I'll be giving a talk on > R as an example of high quality open source software. I think there is > much to learn from R as a high quality extensible product that (at least > as far as I can tell) has never been "spun" or "hyped" like so many open > source fads. > > The question that intrigues me the most is why is R as an open source > project is so incredibly successful and other projects, say for example, > Octave don't enjoy that level of success? > > I have some ideas of course, but I would really like to know your > thoughts when you look at R from such a vantage point. > > Thanks. > Kathy Gerber > University of Virginia > ITC - Research Computing Support > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >