Icecast - Aug 2004 - Icecast is cool, but how about video?

> > I use real server to broadcast live video streams from my studio (
using
> > icecast to broadcast the audio ) to clients using real player ( of
which
> > there also is a free version of ) and I don't pay a dime. I
don't know
how
> > much more free something can get. But, you sir, can believe whatever
you'd
> > like to...
>
> Free means that you may use for any purpose, redistribute, modify and
> redistribute the modified version of a program. It's not about cost.
> Real is so closed that only Real themselves can make a player. Their
> player is very intrusive into the system it's installed to, and
clueless
> users get tricked into subscribing to newsletter AKA spam by Real and if
> they don't reconfigure the client, they also send statistical data to
> Real that should stay private. I'm talking about free as in freedom,
not
> as in "free beer". Apart from that, Real's software is a
nuisance to
> use. It DOES perform well technically, e.g. in terms of quality at low
> bitrates (44kbps sounds almost as good as Vorbis' 48kbps ABR), but
it's
> ressource hungry and not trustworthy, too. I wouldn't install and run
> any server that I (and everyone else) don't know about what it actually
> does, for both security and privacy reasons. I don't trust Real just
> like I don't trust Microsoft. You seem to be happy with blindly
trusting
> proprietary software and companies making them, I don't. That's why
I
> don't recommend it to anyone and tell my concerns instead.
>
>
> Moritz
Real wants to get the user's data wherever the can.. The players are bad for
all
systems i know and the most users are not verry happy if they have to use
Real Prducts..
BUT there is one thing, icecast/MP3 can not give us: Real Audio 8 has a ver
high compression at
a very good quality, an 24k Stream in Stereo!! sounds like an MP3 Audio
Stream @ 40k Mono..

Real Server is only free for 30 days.

Greets,

Pandur2000

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Rob Burris wrote:
> I use real server to broadcast live video streams from my studio ( using
> icecast to broadcast the audio ) to clients using real player ( of which
> there also is a free version of ) and I don't pay a dime. I don't
know how
> much more free something can get. But, you sir, can believe whatever
you'd
> like to...
Free means that you may use for any purpose, redistribute, modify and
redistribute the modified version of a program. It's not about cost.
Real is so closed that only Real themselves can make a player. Their
player is very intrusive into the system it's installed to, and clueless
users get tricked into subscribing to newsletter AKA spam by Real and if
they don't reconfigure the client, they also send statistical data to
Real that should stay private. I'm talking about free as in freedom, not
as in "free beer". Apart from that, Real's software is a nuisance
to
use. It DOES perform well technically, e.g. in terms of quality at low
bitrates (44kbps sounds almost as good as Vorbis' 48kbps ABR), but it's
ressource hungry and not trustworthy, too. I wouldn't install and run
any server that I (and everyone else) don't know about what it actually
does, for both security and privacy reasons. I don't trust Real just
like I don't trust Microsoft. You seem to be happy with blindly trusting
proprietary software and companies making them, I don't. That's why I
don't recommend it to anyone and tell my concerns instead.

<p>Moritz

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"Webmaster@chat-radio.de" wrote:
> Real Prducts..
> BUT there is one thing, icecast/MP3 can not give us: Real Audio 8 has a ver
> high compression at
> a very good quality, an 24k Stream in Stereo!! sounds like an MP3 Audio
> Stream @ 40k Mono..
I made some tests lately and compared all I could find with the new low
bitrate modes of Ogg Vorbis RC4 (in CVS). Real is competive in that area
indeed - although it achieves that quality by heavily compressing the
sound, mangling it quite a bit. It's relatively free from
"traditional"
artifacts, though. Currently, Vorbis in CVS doesn't go much lower than
35-45 kbps (this is likely to change before the release of RC4), so
below that, low bitrate codecs like Real's sound better. However, at
equal bitrates Vorbis sounds better to me.

My tests showed me that it's not really worth talking about MP3 in that
area. Vorbis, Real and even WMA sound better.

Oh, while I'm at it, CVS' 64kbps mode sounds better than MP3pro. :)
Basicly, they sound pretty equal, but MP3pro comes with drop-outs and
distortions in the high frequency area - seems like their guessing
engine doesn't do a very good job.

What MP3* can't give you, Vorbis can. :) Everyone should check it out
for streaming as soon as RC4 gets released (or earlier if you like to
fiddle around with CVS). Marketing departments of big companies would
sell Vorbis' new ~48kbps mode as "near CD quality". Hooray for
Vorbis,
guess that's enough advocating for today. :)

<p>Moritz

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