On 04/11/2017 07:50 AM, Andrew Holway wrote:>> I'd much rather have a bash script to look at-- and manually step through. > > Is that a joke? Bash is an almighty impenetrable nightmare. I've been doing > *nix for nearly 10 years and *still* am unable to read anything vaguely > complicated in bash whereas I can write fairly decent python after 6 > months. From my point of view SystemD is amazing I can write a 6 line > service file for my apps and it *just works* and I don't have to think > about it anymore. > > What is it about SystemD that brings out the Richard Stallman in everyone? > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos >*10 WHOLE years*... And bash is *STILL* impenetrable for you? How about over 30 and it took me a week? No, I don't carry a CS degree or cert of any kind either, just some high school. For me, systemd has been an absolute nightmare of unexpected reboots and non-transparently broken processes with just plain bad implementations crammed onto my system. Faster boot they said, except it ISN'T faster now, it's slower and MUCH more difficult to sort through to find out why with it's monolithic architecture and poor documentation. It wasn't broken before. What was being fixed?
On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 09:02:45AM -0700, Bruce Ferrell wrote:> How about over 30 and it took me a week? No, I don't carry a CS > degree or cert of any kind either, just some high school. > > For me, systemd has been an absolute nightmare of unexpected reboots > and non-transparently broken processes with just plain bad > implementations crammed onto my system. Faster boot they said, > except it ISN'T faster now, it's slower and MUCH more difficult to > sort through to find out why with it's monolithic architecture and > poor documentation. > > It wasn't broken before. What was being fixed?I feel like this conversation has reached the "lets just keep repeating FUD about systemd" stage and probably won't progress in a useful direction. Maybe we should just jump right to the end that we always have each time this comes up. systemd is the death of linux and you're leaving for FreeBSD/devuan/whatever. Lets just move along now. -- Jonathan Billings <billings at negate.org>
On Tue, 2017-04-11 at 12:11 -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote: Maybe we should just jump right to the end that we always have each> time this comes up.??systemd is the death of linux and you're leaving > for FreeBSD/devuan/whatever.??Lets just move along now.+1
On 04/11/2017 09:11 AM, Jonathan Billings wrote:> On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 09:02:45AM -0700, Bruce Ferrell wrote: >> How about over 30 and it took me a week? No, I don't carry a CS >> degree or cert of any kind either, just some high school. >> >> For me, systemd has been an absolute nightmare of unexpected reboots >> and non-transparently broken processes with just plain bad >> implementations crammed onto my system. Faster boot they said, >> except it ISN'T faster now, it's slower and MUCH more difficult to >> sort through to find out why with it's monolithic architecture and >> poor documentation. >> >> It wasn't broken before. What was being fixed? > I feel like this conversation has reached the "lets just keep > repeating FUD about systemd" stage and probably won't progress in a > useful direction. > > Maybe we should just jump right to the end that we always have each > time this comes up. systemd is the death of linux and you're leaving > for FreeBSD/devuan/whatever. Lets just move along now. >Well, sorta yes and sorta no Jonathan. Yes, in that I've moved my personal systems to Linux distros that don't use systemd. No in the it's not "FUD"... The complaints about the code and development are facts. Not alternative facts, real, verifiable incidents and outages. Professionally, I end up having to deal with these incidents that suck my time and effort and irritate my customers. Just move on, ISN'T a solution. I deal in solutions. Partially, where possible, I move my customers to system that don't have this viral infection just as I moved them off of windows, where possible. systemd isn't "the death of linux". It is a serious quagmire that needs to be resolved. That can only happen by confronting the issue head on. step one is admitting a problem exists.
Le 11/04/2017 ? 18:11, Jonathan Billings a ?crit :> Maybe we should just jump right to the end that we always have each > time this comes up. systemd is the death of linux and you're leaving > for FreeBSD/devuan/whatever. Lets just move along now.I've been using CentOS 5.x almost exclusively for a few years on both servers and desktops, and then I went back to Slackware Linux because I liked its simplicity. Slackware is still running on most of my servers and desktops, and I even maintain a small spinoff distribution for desktops (https://www.microlinux.eu). I'm currently faced with the perspective of teaching Linux for some bigger companies (think broadcasting business). Since here in France, many big companies are running RHEL on their servers, I thought it might be a good idea to check out CentOS again. So some time ago I started fiddling with more recent versions again, and I even have a new section on my blog about CentOS: http://blog.microlinux.fr/centos/ I just read through this thread, and I must say I'm a bit worried, to the point that I'm asking myself: is CentOS still as reliable as it was? This is not a rhetorical question, but a real one. On my Slackware servers, I'm hosting a few dozen websites, various platforms for schools and public libraries, some streaming stuff, webmail, etc. and these machines *never ever* give me any headache. Can I expect the same stability from CentOS 7? Cheers, Niki -- Microlinux - Solutions informatiques durables 7, place de l'?glise - 30730 Montpezat Web : http://www.microlinux.fr Mail : info at microlinux.fr T?l. : 04 66 63 10 32
On Tue, Apr 11, 2017 at 12:11:19PM -0400, Jonathan Billings wrote:> I feel like this conversation has reached the "lets just keep > repeating FUD about systemd" stage and probably won't progress in a > useful direction. > > Maybe we should just jump right to the end that we always have each > time this comes up. systemd is the death of linux and you're leaving > for FreeBSD/devuan/whatever. Lets just move along now.Young man, You feel down on your luck Young man You're tired of Linux Young Man You want to free Of trying to figure out systemd Why don't you try.... Freeeeee BSD FreeeBSD It still has an init that you can see (though they're talking of trying OpenRC) And so on. Sorry, that's all I was allowed to sing at work before people got annoyed. (We're a FreeBSD shop though). -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
On 11/04/17 17:02, Bruce Ferrell wrote:> On 04/11/2017 07:50 AM, Andrew Holway wrote: >>> I'd much rather have a bash script to look at-- and manually step >>> through. >> >> Is that a joke? Bash is an almighty impenetrable nightmare. I've been >> doing >> *nix for nearly 10 years and *still* am unable to read anything vaguely >> complicated in bash whereas I can write fairly decent python after 6 >> months. From my point of view SystemD is amazing I can write a 6 line >> service file for my apps and it *just works* and I don't have to think >> about it anymore. >> >> What is it about SystemD that brings out the Richard Stallman in >> everyone? >> _______________________________________________ >> CentOS mailing list >> CentOS at centos.org >> https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos >> > *10 WHOLE years*... And bash is *STILL* impenetrable for you? > > How about over 30 and it took me a week? No, I don't carry a CS degree > or cert of any kind either, just some high school. > > For me, systemd has been an absolute nightmare of unexpected reboots and > non-transparently broken processes with just plain bad implementations > crammed onto my system. Faster boot they said, except it ISN'T faster > now, it's slower and MUCH more difficult to sort through to find out why > with it's monolithic architecture and poor documentation. > > It wasn't broken before. What was being fixed? >Boot speed isn't everything. My servers take far longer to initialise than boot, so having to repeat the boot to sort out the black magic takes __much__ longer than having a steppable script. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 836 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: <http://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos/attachments/20170411/67b45b60/attachment-0001.sig>