CentOS - Aug 2005 - Choosing to put CentOS in terms of itself ...

I've been reading back through the archives, really detailed, especially
a select few people.  And I promise, this is the last time I'm going to
say this.

I think CentOS stands great on itself, and you don't need to define many
things is dislike of other distro.  I know many of us (at least us
Americans) like to put things in terms of "versus" as much as we can.
And I am too verbose, too "I see good in everything" and support so
many
different flavors that there's always something to dislike about what I
say.

The sad this is that whenever someone comes in, and I try to explain
where Fedora Core fits in, other people come back in and assert things
on Fedora Core.  I have shown how Fedora Core is built, just like Red
Hat Linux before it.  I have painstakenly _not_ put things in terms of
"black'n white," but very detailed, very verbose statements.  I
don't do
this because I'm defending any distro, but so people know what issues
they will run into -- because it's not about choice of brand names (we
already had that in the Windows world) -- but choice of the best
technology how we can get it.

It might be "animal farmish" but we're all standing on the
shoulders of
others, and I don't dare say who's better than another.  In fact,
because of my neutrality and wiliness to see things from different
perspectives.

IN A NUTSHELL ...

If you re-read through my posts, all I'm doing is stating _positives_ of
solutions.  I'm giving _options_ for people and letting _them_ choose.
Many people can see that, and they don't mind that.  I think those
people who remind me of this.

But there are people who regularly see any positive statement I make as
a negative to their agendas, for whatever reasons.  There continues to
be a revisionist history that people want to infer about one company,
and my only mistake is to remind people of what I've said time and time
again.  And no, I'm not being "black'n white" -- I'm being
positive from
_all_ points.  I'm not the one taking things so negatively, but showing
the vantage points of the approach and technology, because they _do_
overlap.

One thing you will never see me do is take something and not understand
why.  I strive to understand why, what it affects and how that affects
things.  Again, I have explained many things, Fedora Core, enough times
now that I know the regulars are sick.

But understand I am _not_ the only one in these threads, and some people
seem to wait to point _until_ they come up -- and not bother to help
people with other questions.  They can't complain about me without being
hypocrites in return.

Now I experimented with only helping people off-list at the end of last
week and over the weekend.  I think I'll go back to that for the sanity
of everyone on the list.  But really, I hope people do go back and read
what I've posted -- and the fact that I'm _always_ naming _positives_ of
solutions, and _giving_choice_.

I don't do this because I think I'm "better," I do it because
I believe
it's important to understand not only why, but how that affects
everything else.


-- 
Bryan J. Smith     b.j.smith at ieee.org     http://thebs413.blogspot.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
The best things in life are NOT free - which is why life is easiest if
you save all the bills until you can share them with the perfect woman

On Wed, 2005-08-17 at 19:33 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
<snip>
> I think CentOS stands great on itself, and you don't need to define
many
> things is dislike of other distro.  I know many of us (at least us
> Americans) like to put things in terms of "versus" as much as we
can.
> And I am too verbose, too "I see good in everything" and support
so many
> different flavors that there's always something to dislike about what I
> say.
<snip>
> 
> It might be "animal farmish" but we're all standing on the
shoulders of
> others, and I don't dare say who's better than another.  In fact,
> because of my neutrality and wiliness to see things from different
> perspectives.
One distro is not BETTER than another ... they are just for different
situations.

RHEL (as a distro) is more stable and longer lived than Fedora ... and
it is based off of Fedora (or they are both based from Rawhide if you
prefer).  This is due mostly to the release cycle and the testing that
happens on Fedora.  Some people see Fedora as a test platform for
RHEL ... and it is that.  Red Hat would not assign resources to Fedora
IF they we not going to roll that stuff into RHEL and make money.  That
doesn't make Fedora any less valuable as a distro, or make Red Hat bad.

Fedora is a very good distro when compared to other non-enterprise
distros like SuSE Pro, Mandriva, Ubuntu, etc.  The only issue with these
distros (Fedora included) is the support cycle / release schedule.

RedHat is (in my opinion) the best of the Enterprise Release Linux
companies (Novell, RedHat, Mandriva) at making their enterprise Source
available.  Without RedHat's dedication to open source software, CentOS
would not exist.

Where are the SuSE SLES or Mandriva Enterprise rebuilds?  They don't
exist .. because the SRPMS are not readily available for updates, etc.

BUT ... RHEL costs money (at least the SLA does).

So, CentOS has some advantages of Fedora (Community developed, Free) and
RHEL (Long lifetime, stable code base, most 3rd party apps work).
CentOS also has one major disadvantage ... no support.

Red Hat bashing is not good though. As I said before, without their
outstanding commitment to open source the community would be in the same
boat as we are with Mandriva and Novell.

(Not that either of those companies are BAD either ... they also provide
code back into the chain and they do support open source as well.  They
just don't make it easy to clone their Enterprise Software)
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On Thu, 2005-08-18 at 05:55 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:
> Red Hat bashing is not good though. As I said before, without their
> outstanding commitment to open source the community would be in the same
> boat as we are with Mandriva and Novell.
> 
> (Not that either of those companies are BAD either ... they also provide
> code back into the chain and they do support open source as well.  They
> just don't make it easy to clone their Enterprise Software)
Great post. I agree 100%. Want to bash someone, bash Apple and how they
like to sue anyone who even talks about their software, much less
modifies it. Red Hat is a great company providing a great service. And,
I might add, I think they benefit from it as well. Yeah, I don't pay for
RHEL on my home computer, but prior to using CentOS I used SuSE. Now I
use CentOS and guess what my recommendation is going to be the next time
I'm consulting on a project that wants to buy a Linux distro? You
guessed it probably. RHEL.

Preston

On Thu, 2005-08-18 at 05:55 -0500, Johnny Hughes wrote:
> On Wed, 2005-08-17 at 19:33 -0500, Bryan J. Smith wrote:
> <snip>
> 
> > I think CentOS stands great on itself, and you don't need to
define many
> > things is dislike of other distro.  I know many of us (at least us
> > Americans) like to put things in terms of "versus" as much
as we can.
> > And I am too verbose, too "I see good in everything" and
support so many
> > different flavors that there's always something to dislike about
what I
> > say.
> 
> <snip>
> > 
> > It might be "animal farmish" but we're all standing on
the shoulders of
> > others, and I don't dare say who's better than another.  In
fact,
> > because of my neutrality and wiliness to see things from different
> > perspectives.
> 
> One distro is not BETTER than another ... they are just for different
> situations.
> 
> RHEL (as a distro) is more stable and longer lived than Fedora ... and
> it is based off of Fedora (or they are both based from Rawhide if you
> prefer).  This is due mostly to the release cycle and the testing that
> happens on Fedora.  Some people see Fedora as a test platform for
> RHEL ... and it is that.  Red Hat would not assign resources to Fedora
> IF they we not going to roll that stuff into RHEL and make money.  That
> doesn't make Fedora any less valuable as a distro, or make Red Hat bad.
> 
> Fedora is a very good distro when compared to other non-enterprise
> distros like SuSE Pro, Mandriva, Ubuntu, etc.  The only issue with these
> distros (Fedora included) is the support cycle / release schedule.
> 
> RedHat is (in my opinion) the best of the Enterprise Release Linux
> companies (Novell, RedHat, Mandriva) at making their enterprise Source
> available.  Without RedHat's dedication to open source software, CentOS
> would not exist.
> 
> Where are the SuSE SLES or Mandriva Enterprise rebuilds?  They don't
> exist .. because the SRPMS are not readily available for updates, etc.
> 
> BUT ... RHEL costs money (at least the SLA does).
> 
> So, CentOS has some advantages of Fedora (Community developed, Free) and
> RHEL (Long lifetime, stable code base, most 3rd party apps work).
> CentOS also has one major disadvantage ... no support.
> 
> Red Hat bashing is not good though. As I said before, without their
> outstanding commitment to open source the community would be in the same
> boat as we are with Mandriva and Novell.
> 
> (Not that either of those companies are BAD either ... they also provide
> code back into the chain and they do support open source as well.  They
> just don't make it easy to clone their Enterprise Software)
Both of you guys!!! very well put!
I think this msg says it all on this subject.
I do feel the want to stress the fact that if you feel as I do that
Centos serves us well and plays a huge part of what we do...knowing
where the bulk of Centos comes from, then it would be really foolish and
wrong (especially on the Centos list to be cutting on redhat or fedora
for sure! If one would feel so strongly against them then he has no
business here either, It's just wrong!

More constructively, well, I think Johnny does all he can to serve us
all well, I have never used anything he has done here to my knowledge
but he seems to always be here for us. But, I do think instead of trying
to find fault w/what we got I do believe better just to make work that
doesn't or improve on it. Just seems a better way to expend the energy.

Lastly, If I, in any of this seem aprehendsive I did not mean so and my
apologies. I made my choice as most others here have. Centos! and I
think most all will agree, the best choice, if we gonna live by it, then
there is no place here to cut on any of the redhat fedora family. It
just seems to make sense...to me anyway.
  
John Rose 
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