asterisk users - Jan 2009 - RFC -- Improving the quality of the mailing lists

The -user and -dev mailing lists are a valuable resource -- when they are 
not cluttered by posts unrelated to the "charter" of the lists.

In my limited memory, this last weekend represents a new low in the 
"relevant subject to noise ratio."

Replying to requests with meaningless, misleading, or misspelled subject 
lines ("I need help," "asterisk help," "Ntework
Card") encourage careless
posting and obfuscate useful replies from search engines.

Also, while replying to such requests may seem helpful, some of the 
requests indicate such a lack of basic understanding that giving the 
answer is like giving a small child a very sharp knife when they ask for a 
slice of bread.

For example: "How do I delete these files that end in that squiggly thing 
in my current directory and all directories below?"

Since most of these users are probably running as root, a simple "extra 
space here and a missed character there" ("rm --force --recursive /*
~" vs
"rm --force --recursive ./*~" can have catastrophic consequences.

In an attempt to improve the quality of the lists, I propose the 
following: For a user's first 10 posts, they will receive a reply with a 
link to a web page and have to answer the following questions:

0) I acknowledge that I am asking for free help and I acknowledge that 
following the conventions below increase my chances of engaging another 
list member with relevant expertise and resolving my request.

1) I am posting a new request.

a) My request cannot be answered on a more general list such as Beginning 
Unix, or on a distribution specific list.

b) My request cannot be answered on a more specific list such as an 
AsteriskNow or Trixbox list.

c) I have attempted to search for an answer using a search engine such as 
Google.

d) I know what "thread hijacking" is and I created this request from 
scratch.

e) I have created a meaningful subject line that indicates with as much 
specificity as reasonable which part of Asterisk I need help with and why.

f) I am not posting a self-serving message directing someone to my product 
that would be better posted to the -biz list.

g) I am not posting in HTML.

h) I am posting in English.

i) I am fluent in English or I have attempted to have someone who is 
review my request.

j) I have run my request through my spell checking resources.

or

2) I am posting a reply to a post.

a) I know what "top posting" is and I am not ignoring the
"convention" of
the list.

b) I am not posting a self-serving message directing someone to my product 
that would be better posted to the -biz list or only to the requester.

c) I am not posting in HTML.

d) I am posting in English.

e) I am fluent in English or I have attempted to have someone who is 
review my post.

f) I have trimmed the previous post down to just the point(s) I am 
replying to.

g) I have run my request through my spell checking resources.

For -dev, the following questions would be added:

) My post directly relates to changes in the Asterisk C source code.

) I am not reporting a bug or a posting a patch that should be directed to 
bugs.digium.com.

Included in the web page would be the original message with the ability to 
change the list the message is to be posted to, the subject line, and the 
body of the message.

Comments?

Thanks in advance,
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Edwards      sedwards at sedwards.com      Voice: +1-760-468-3867 PST
Newline                                             Fax: +1-760-731-3000

The higher you raise the barrier for entry to the mailing list, the more you
decrease the amount good the mailing list is actually capable of doing. (barrier
height is inversely related to how much help we can provide to the people that
need help the most)

I agree with you regarding the subject spelling/misspelling as it pertains to
indexing on the search engines, etc. But if you require those posting to jump
through your *10* hoops for the first *10* times they post something (yes,
that's 100 hoops. I'm tired of jumping already), you are artificially
limiting the number of users that this list can actually help.

I don't like getting broken English replies and questions that don't
make any sense any more than the next person, but I also get a good chuckle out
of reading them. And reading replies that tell people to 'rm -rf /*'
gives me a good laugh, too. The only way to REALLY learn is to make mistakes,
even if you're making those mistakes because you took the 'advice'
that someone gave you for free on the mailing list...

Give me a break :) Mailing lists are supposed to be fun and get off topic
sometimes. That's what makes them interesting.

--Dave

PS: Can anyone help me with my broken *.? the ntework card is blinking red and
the sips are dropping with echoes. Tai? LOL.




-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces at lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces
at lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Steve Edwards
Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2009 10:58 AM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List
Subject: [asterisk-users] RFC -- Improving the quality of the mailing lists

The -user and -dev mailing lists are a valuable resource -- when they are
not cluttered by posts unrelated to the "charter" of the lists.

In my limited memory, this last weekend represents a new low in the
"relevant subject to noise ratio."

Replying to requests with meaningless, misleading, or misspelled subject
lines ("I need help," "asterisk help," "Ntework
Card") encourage careless
posting and obfuscate useful replies from search engines.

Also, while replying to such requests may seem helpful, some of the
requests indicate such a lack of basic understanding that giving the
answer is like giving a small child a very sharp knife when they ask for a
slice of bread.

For example: "How do I delete these files that end in that squiggly thing
in my current directory and all directories below?"

Since most of these users are probably running as root, a simple "extra
space here and a missed character there" ("rm --force --recursive /*
~" vs
"rm --force --recursive ./*~" can have catastrophic consequences.

In an attempt to improve the quality of the lists, I propose the
following: For a user's first 10 posts, they will receive a reply with a
link to a web page and have to answer the following questions:

0) I acknowledge that I am asking for free help and I acknowledge that
following the conventions below increase my chances of engaging another
list member with relevant expertise and resolving my request.

1) I am posting a new request.

a) My request cannot be answered on a more general list such as Beginning
Unix, or on a distribution specific list.

b) My request cannot be answered on a more specific list such as an
AsteriskNow or Trixbox list.

c) I have attempted to search for an answer using a search engine such as
Google.

d) I know what "thread hijacking" is and I created this request from
scratch.

e) I have created a meaningful subject line that indicates with as much
specificity as reasonable which part of Asterisk I need help with and why.

f) I am not posting a self-serving message directing someone to my product
that would be better posted to the -biz list.

g) I am not posting in HTML.

h) I am posting in English.

i) I am fluent in English or I have attempted to have someone who is
review my request.

j) I have run my request through my spell checking resources.

or

2) I am posting a reply to a post.

a) I know what "top posting" is and I am not ignoring the
"convention" of
the list.

b) I am not posting a self-serving message directing someone to my product
that would be better posted to the -biz list or only to the requester.

c) I am not posting in HTML.

d) I am posting in English.

e) I am fluent in English or I have attempted to have someone who is
review my post.

f) I have trimmed the previous post down to just the point(s) I am
replying to.

g) I have run my request through my spell checking resources.

For -dev, the following questions would be added:

) My post directly relates to changes in the Asterisk C source code.

) I am not reporting a bug or a posting a patch that should be directed to
bugs.digium.com.

Included in the web page would be the original message with the ability to
change the list the message is to be posted to, the subject line, and the
body of the message.

Comments?

Thanks in advance,
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steve Edwards      sedwards at sedwards.com      Voice: +1-760-468-3867 PST
Newline                                             Fax: +1-760-731-3000

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On Tuesday 27 January 2009 09:57:54 Steve Edwards wrote:
> The -user and -dev mailing lists are a valuable resource -- when they are
> not cluttered by posts unrelated to the "charter" of the lists.
>
> In my limited memory, this last weekend represents a new low in the
> "relevant subject to noise ratio."
>
> Replying to requests with meaningless, misleading, or misspelled subject
> lines ("I need help," "asterisk help," "Ntework
Card") encourage careless
> posting and obfuscate useful replies from search engines.
>
> Also, while replying to such requests may seem helpful, some of the
> requests indicate such a lack of basic understanding that giving the
> answer is like giving a small child a very sharp knife when they ask for a
> slice of bread.
>
> For example: "How do I delete these files that end in that squiggly
thing
> in my current directory and all directories below?"
>
> Since most of these users are probably running as root, a simple
"extra
> space here and a missed character there" ("rm --force --recursive
/* ~" vs
> "rm --force --recursive ./*~" can have catastrophic consequences.
>
> In an attempt to improve the quality of the lists, I propose the
> following: For a user's first 10 posts, they will receive a reply with
a
> link to a web page and have to answer the following questions:
While I agree with your overall sentiment, I believe a few of these items are
a bit over the top, and perhaps I'm reading this with more seriousness than
it merits.
> i) I am fluent in English or I have attempted to have someone who is
> review my request.
In many cases, this just isn't possible.  While it would be nice to have all
posts in the King's English, a great many users are in locales which
don't
have an English-speaking population.  These are likely the only lists to which
they have ready access which understand both enough English, as well as
enough telephony knowledge to process their questions intelligently.
> j) I have run my request through my spell checking resources.
Even I don't do this, and I know that I occasionally misspell some words.
> Included in the web page would be the original message with the ability to
> change the list the message is to be posted to, the subject line, and the
> body of the message.
>
> Comments?
I think we'd be better off posting a regular FAQ, perhaps weekly, with some
of
these suggestions, as well as providing a link to that FAQ from the mailing
list signup page, along with a STRONG suggestion to peruse the FAQ first.

-- 
Tilghman