Rails - Jul 2006 - Recipes versus Ruby for Rails: what''s best after Agile?

For expats from other languages, what''s the next best step after the 
Agile Web Dev book:

Rails Recipes or Ruby for Rails?



Thanks,
--
Austin

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

On 7/20/06, Austin Govella <austin.govella@gmail.com>
wrote:
> For expats from other languages, what''s the next best step after
the
> Agile Web Dev book:
>
> Rails Recipes or Ruby for Rails?

I''ve read all three and if I had it to again I''d prefer to
read them
in this order:

Ruby for Rails
Agile Web Dev
Rails Recipes

Ruby for Rails is for Ruby beginners as much as it''s for Rails in
general.

Rails Recipes becomes very useful once you''re into Rails a bit.



-- 
Greg Donald
http://destiney.com/

Greg Donald wrote:
> On 7/20/06, Austin Govella <austin.govella@gmail.com> wrote:
>> For expats from other languages, what''s the next best step
after the
>> Agile Web Dev book:
>>
>> Rails Recipes or Ruby for Rails?
> 
> 
> I''ve read all three and if I had it to again I''d prefer
to read them
> in this order:
> 
> Ruby for Rails
> Agile Web Dev
> Rails Recipes
> 
> Ruby for Rails is for Ruby beginners as much as it''s for Rails in
general.
> 
> Rails Recipes becomes very useful once you''re into Rails a bit.
> 
> 
> 
The Recipes book have been EXTREMELY valuable to me. Easily worth the 
investment many times over.

-- 
  Ola Bini (http://ola-bini.blogspot.com)
  JvYAML, RbYAML, JRuby and Jatha contributor
  System Developer, Karolinska Institutet (http://www.ki.se)
  OLogix Consulting (http://www.ologix.com)

  "Yields falsehood when quined" yields falsehood when quined.

My next step was Ruby for Rails and I''ve highly enjoyed it. In fact,  
I stopped midway through Agile to move to Ruby for Rails because I  
wanted a more thorough introduction to the language itself before  
jumping too far into rails. But I''ve enjoyed both books and just  
received my Recipes book in the mail on Monday of this week. I am  
looking forward to using some of the recipes contained within.

Hope that helps.
-geoffrey


On Jul 20, 2006, at 3:21 PM, Austin Govella wrote:
> For expats from other languages, what''s the next best step after
the
> Agile Web Dev book:
>
> Rails Recipes or Ruby for Rails?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Austin
>
> -- 
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails

Recipes is a very good resource book. I would go for the Ruby for Rails before
Recipes.

--- Austin Govella <austin.govella@gmail.com> wrote:
> For expats from other languages, what''s the next best step after
the
> Agile Web Dev book:
> 
> Rails Recipes or Ruby for Rails?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> --
> Austin
> 
> -- 
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

Hi Austin,

If you''re a hardened veteran and you''ve already read the Agile
Dev book, you
might consider Programming Ruby. The reference material is all there, and
you can find it pretty easily. Much easier to use and read out of order than
Ruby for Rails, in my opinion.




On 7/20/06, Geoffrey Lessel <geoffrey@hydromint.com>
wrote:
>
> My next step was Ruby for Rails and I''ve highly enjoyed it. In
fact,
> I stopped midway through Agile to move to Ruby for Rails because I
> wanted a more thorough introduction to the language itself before
> jumping too far into rails. But I''ve enjoyed both books and just
> received my Recipes book in the mail on Monday of this week. I am
> looking forward to using some of the recipes contained within.
>
> Hope that helps.
> -geoffrey
>
>
> On Jul 20, 2006, at 3:21 PM, Austin Govella wrote:
>
> > For expats from other languages, what''s the next best step
after the
> > Agile Web Dev book:
> >
> > Rails Recipes or Ruby for Rails?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks,
> > --
> > Austin
> >
> > --
> > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails mailing list
> > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060720/eb1d1de2/attachment-0001.html

+1 for Programming Ruby.

On 7/20/06, Stephen Smith <4fires@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Hi Austin,
>
> If you''re a hardened veteran and you''ve already read the
Agile Dev book, you
> might consider Programming Ruby. The reference material is all there, and
> you can find it pretty easily. Much easier to use and read out of order
than
> Ruby for Rails, in my opinion.
>
>
>
>
>
> On 7/20/06, Geoffrey Lessel <geoffrey@hydromint.com> wrote:
> > My next step was Ruby for Rails and I''ve highly enjoyed it.
In fact,
> > I stopped midway through Agile to move to Ruby for Rails because I
> > wanted a more thorough introduction to the language itself before
> > jumping too far into rails. But I''ve enjoyed both books and
just
> > received my Recipes book in the mail on Monday of this week. I am
> > looking forward to using some of the recipes contained within.
> >
> > Hope that helps.
> > -geoffrey
> >
> >
> > On Jul 20, 2006, at 3:21 PM, Austin Govella wrote:
> >
> > > For expats from other languages, what''s the next best
step after the
> > > Agile Web Dev book:
> > >
> > > Rails Recipes or Ruby for Rails?
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Thanks,
> > > --
> > > Austin
> > >
> > > --
> > > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Rails mailing list
> > > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> > > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails mailing list
> > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
>
>

If you''re new to Ruby, get Ruby for Rails, if you''re good with
Ruby,
Rails Recipes. They''re both good but you''ll get a lot more out
of
Rails if you understand Ruby.

I actually didn''t get that much out of the Pickaxe book, it was way
too beginner-oriented and I got impatient with it. Likewise the
Poignant Guide to Ruby, the cartoon foxes are cool but I got impatient
with that as well. If you''re a competent, seasoned programmer, but new
to Ruby the language, I would actually recommend "The Ruby Way" by Hal
Fulton before any books on Rails or any other books on Ruby. That book
basically assumes that you know how to do stuff but you don''t know how
to do stuff **in Ruby**. It even has an appendix "Coming to Ruby from
Perl" and another "Coming to Ruby from Python" which when taken
together were a **huge** timesaver for me personally. It is in fact a
pretty kickass book.

-- 
Giles Bowkett
http://www.gilesgoatboy.org

> Fulton before any books on Rails or any other books on Ruby. That book
> basically assumes that you know how to do stuff but you don''t know
how
> to do stuff **in Ruby**. It even has an appendix "Coming to Ruby from
> Perl" and another "Coming to Ruby from Python" which when
taken
> together were a **huge** timesaver for me personally.
you know of any Smalltalk for Rubyist books? this Croquet thing has me
intrigued...and how integrated the development tools with the rest of the
environment.. i want to make a way to expose parts of the world via Seaside..but
need to bone up on Smalltalk first..
cheers

any books for ''coming to lisp from python/perl/ruby'' would be
interested in too...

Hooray for random tangents!

All the Smalltalk books I have are free downloads. To be honest my
Smalltalk skills are basically nil, I have Cincom VisualWorks
Smalltalk and I''m not thrilled with it at all. I need a better
SmallTalk to work in.

The best books on Lisp I''m aware of are the purple wizard book from
MIT and Paul Graham''s books. You can also find a series of videos
recorded at Hewlett-Packard in Palo Alto in the 80s by the purple
wizard guys which are available free online and really funny for all
the 80s fashion and old-school computer displays.

http://www.swiss.ai.mit.edu/classes/6.001/abelson-sussman-lectures/

Fair warning, it''s a good 20 hours of video.

James Edward Gray of the Ruby quiz did a pretty kickass series of blog
articles on Lisp-style programming in Ruby. He was reading a book
called "Higher-Order Perl," about Lisp-style programming in Perl, and
did some translations into Ruby, along with pretty interesting
commentary/ideas/etc.

I''m getting weird http errors but the link is:

http://blog.grayproductions.net/articles/category/higher-order-ruby

On 7/20/06, carmen <_@whats-your.name> wrote:
> > Fulton before any books on Rails or any other books on Ruby. That book
> > basically assumes that you know how to do stuff but you don''t
know how
> > to do stuff **in Ruby**. It even has an appendix "Coming to Ruby
from
> > Perl" and another "Coming to Ruby from Python" which
when taken
> > together were a **huge** timesaver for me personally.
>
> you know of any Smalltalk for Rubyist books? this Croquet thing has me
intrigued...and how integrated the development tools with the rest of the
environment.. i want to make a way to expose parts of the world via Seaside..but
need to bone up on Smalltalk first..
> cheers
>
> any books for ''coming to lisp from python/perl/ruby''
would be interested in too...
>
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

-- 
Giles Bowkett
http://www.gilesgoatboy.org

On Thursday 20 July 2006 23:42, carmen wrote:
> any books for ''coming to lisp from python/perl/ruby''
would be
> interested in too...
Try Peter Seibel''s Practical Common Lisp
http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/

Michael

-- 
Michael Schuerig
mailto:michael@schuerig.de
http://www.schuerig.de/michael/

Supposedly Amy Hoy''s book is going to help fill part of this gap.  Not
open
yet.  In the mean time, Recipies.

On 7/20/06, Austin Govella <austin.govella@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> For expats from other languages, what''s the next best step after
the
> Agile Web Dev book:
>
> Rails Recipes or Ruby for Rails?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Austin
>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060720/0ec1a98a/attachment-0001.html

Hi,

I think Pickaxe was a good choice after Agile for me.

Peter


On 7/20/06, Austin Govella <austin.govella@gmail.com>
wrote:
> For expats from other languages, what''s the next best step after
the
> Agile Web Dev book:
>
> Rails Recipes or Ruby for Rails?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> --
> Austin
>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

On 7/20/06, Peter Michaux <petermichaux@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I think Pickaxe was a good choice after Agile for me.
>
I''ll risk sounding a heretic here :)
To this day I''ve not been able to read Pickaxe, whereas I found Ruby
For
Rails very helpful, as was Why''s Poignant Guide.  I believe it is a
learning
style thing. Black''s book uses more narrative to explain concepts,
piece by
piece, while the Thomas book, I feel,  tends to let lots of little code
examples speak for themselves.  Not that this is a bad thing, mind you, just
a "different strokes for different folks" kind of thing.
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060721/22bcc235/attachment-0001.html

carmen wrote:
>> Fulton before any books on Rails or any other books on Ruby. That book
>> basically assumes that you know how to do stuff but you don''t
know how
>> to do stuff **in Ruby**. It even has an appendix "Coming to Ruby
from
>> Perl" and another "Coming to Ruby from Python" which
when taken
>> together were a **huge** timesaver for me personally.
> 
> you know of any Smalltalk for Rubyist books? this Croquet thing has me 
My favourite Smalltalk book is Kent Beck''s "Smalltalk Best
Practice
Patterns" alongside an article ( 
http://www.eli.sdsu.edu/courses/spring01/cs635/readingSmalltalk.pdf ) by 
Wilf LaLonde that introduces basic syntax.  Disclaimer:  I am 
namechecked in that article because I wrote to Wilf demanding he write 
it :

The article is only really required reading if Smalltalk sysntax is 
entirely alien to you.  I needed it to figure out what SBPP was teaching 
me.

Alan

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

+1 for Pickaxe (retrospectively) - learning Ruby makes Rails fun

Though to be honest, truly honest, it was fun getting each new 
installment/draft of the Rails Recipes as they came out and looking at 
the new recipies.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Having the Recipes arrive a few at a time *was* fun.

I''ve read all these, and I think there has been enough advice on the
suggested order of reading. I just wanted to say how much I really
appreciate the Rails Recipes book lately. I always get the PDF+Book option,
and I''ll print out a recipe or two and just bring them to the beach or
wherever - mark them up, fold them, etc. I''ve been dragging the book
around
a lot too, and reading the recipes is really strengthening one of my big
Rails weaknesses... learning how to first attack a problem. I can extend
easily, and given enough time I can build... but I''m still grokking the
whole system & process and the Recipes book is lowering my personal thrash
time.  Hope that makes sense.

I''ve been very impressed with the quality of the Pragmatic Programmers
books, *and* the Manning Publications books. I recommend them to anyone who
will listen. :)

On 7/21/06, Dr Nic <drnicwilliams@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> +1 for Pickaxe (retrospectively) - learning Ruby makes Rails fun
>
> Though to be honest, truly honest, it was fun getting each new
> installment/draft of the Rails Recipes as they came out and looking at
> the new recipies.
>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL:
http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060721/63ed1cf8/attachment.html

On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 02:16:58PM -0700, Zack Chandler
wrote:
> +1 for Programming Ruby.
Likewise, I can''t say enough good things about the Pickaxe book.
One of my all time favorite books, and I would call it essential
if you are doing anything serious with Ruby.

Hi --

On Fri, 21 Jul 2006, Tom Trebisky wrote:
> On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 02:16:58PM -0700, Zack Chandler wrote:
>> +1 for Programming Ruby.
>
> Likewise, I can''t say enough good things about the Pickaxe book.
> One of my all time favorite books, and I would call it essential
> if you are doing anything serious with Ruby.
Definitely.  I discovered Ruby through it, and consider it the classic
Ruby compendium and reference work.

In fact, I admire it so much that when I undertook to write a Ruby
book of my own, I made damn sure to write one that didn''t try to
compete directly with it :-)  Happily for me, the "for Rails" approach
to Ruby was becoming topical and was in need of an expositor.

I hope you''ll all enjoy all the Ruby and Rails books out there, and
then some.  Buy them, borrow them, please don''t steal them... and
learn what you need from each.  (I know I''m not addressing the
original question of what order to read things in -- but the consensus
arising from the thread, namely that it depends on what your needs and
interests are, seems to me to answer that question correctly.)


David

-- 
http://www.rubypowerandlight.com => Ruby/Rails training & consultancy
http://www.manning.com/black     => RUBY FOR RAILS (reviewed on
                                     Slashdot, 7/12/2006!)
http://dablog.rubypal.com        => D[avid ]A[. ]B[lack''s][ Web]log
dblack@wobblini.net              => me

I''ve jumped around the last few weeks.  First starting the AWDWR
tutorial a few times, continuing on into the framework section and
then adjuncting with Ruby for Rails.  However the last week I''ve made
it a priority to read R4R front to back and in between.  I''ve also
read the big section (whichever one that is) of the Pickaxe. The
section that really goes into the language.  All of these books are
different in many ways from the writing style to the progression and
distillation of information.  At this point I''m finding R4R more
digestable then AWDWR.
For my own learning I still recommend authors moving away from the
"application / tutorial" way of teaching to more exercise driven
chapters.  Chris Pine''s book LTP is for newbs to Ruby and programming
but each chapter end with a few exercises to challenge and grow your
programming confidence.

On 7/21/06, dblack@wobblini.net <dblack@wobblini.net>
wrote:
> Hi --
>
> On Fri, 21 Jul 2006, Tom Trebisky wrote:
>
> > On Thu, Jul 20, 2006 at 02:16:58PM -0700, Zack Chandler wrote:
> >> +1 for Programming Ruby.
> >
> > Likewise, I can''t say enough good things about the Pickaxe
book.
> > One of my all time favorite books, and I would call it essential
> > if you are doing anything serious with Ruby.
>
> Definitely.  I discovered Ruby through it, and consider it the classic
> Ruby compendium and reference work.
>
> In fact, I admire it so much that when I undertook to write a Ruby
> book of my own, I made damn sure to write one that didn''t try to
> compete directly with it :-)  Happily for me, the "for Rails"
approach
> to Ruby was becoming topical and was in need of an expositor.
>
> I hope you''ll all enjoy all the Ruby and Rails books out there,
and
> then some.  Buy them, borrow them, please don''t steal them... and
> learn what you need from each.  (I know I''m not addressing the
> original question of what order to read things in -- but the consensus
> arising from the thread, namely that it depends on what your needs and
> interests are, seems to me to answer that question correctly.)
>
>
> David
>
> --
> http://www.rubypowerandlight.com => Ruby/Rails training &
consultancy
> http://www.manning.com/black     => RUBY FOR RAILS (reviewed on
>                                      Slashdot, 7/12/2006!)
> http://dablog.rubypal.com        => D[avid ]A[. ]B[lack''s][
Web]log
> dblack@wobblini.net              => me
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>