Reviews Wanted. I''ve read the tables of contents and haven''t yet made up my mind. Is one book clearly better than the other? Is one clearly full of bugs? Is one so much further ahead that there is no choice? Are they both so incomplete that I should just wait and only cook real food? Do trains still have dining cars? Warren Fred -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060608/c5a0d235/attachment.html
On 6/8/06, Warren Seltzer <warrens@actcom.net.il> wrote:> > > Reviews Wanted. > I''ve read the tables of contents and haven''t yet made up my mind. > > Is one book clearly better than the other? Is one clearly full of bugs? Is > one so much further ahead that there is no choice? Are they both so > incomplete that I should just wait and only cook real food? Do trains still > have dining cars? > > Warren FredWarren I have both and _at this point_ I would have to say that Rails Recipes is a better choice. It seems to me that the explanations in Rails Recipes are more thorough and descriptive than those in Rails Cookbook. To be fair, the Cookbook is still in Rough Cuts form and is not yet complete, so the jury is still out on that one. Todd Breiholz
May I get in on this thread please - I''ve been looking starry eyed at Recipes, yet I''m 4 days into ROR via Agile Web Development. I looked at the Recipes site and it''s clear that before you can use a recipe you need to learn how to cook. Apparently the book leaves much to the readers / developers responsibilities, Could a beginner derive value and even perhaps satisfaction from this book or would it be just to frustrating trying to come up with code that is not in the book ? Hope my question is clear. Stuart On 6/8/06, Todd Breiholz <talanb@gmail.com> wrote:> > On 6/8/06, Warren Seltzer <warrens@actcom.net.il> wrote: > > > > > > Reviews Wanted. > > I''ve read the tables of contents and haven''t yet made up my mind. > > > > Is one book clearly better than the other? Is one clearly full of bugs? > Is > > one so much further ahead that there is no choice? Are they both so > > incomplete that I should just wait and only cook real food? Do trains > still > > have dining cars? > > > > Warren Fred > > Warren > > I have both and _at this point_ I would have to say that Rails Recipes > is a better choice. It seems to me that the explanations in Rails > Recipes are more thorough and descriptive than those in Rails > Cookbook. > > To be fair, the Cookbook is still in Rough Cuts form and is not yet > complete, so the jury is still out on that one. > > Todd Breiholz > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060608/353bd84b/attachment-0001.html
Are y''all referring to the Ruby Cookbook from O''Reilly? I don''t believe there''s a Rails Cookbook.... Anyway, I have both, and much prefer the Rails Recipes from the Pragmatic Programmers. It''s kind of a must-have companion for the Agile book... and it''s also finished. The O''Reilly book seems not only far from completion, but not particularly Rails-specific (not that that''s a bad thing). Just my two cents.
Dark Ambient wrote:> May I get in on this thread please - I''ve been looking starry eyed at > Recipes, yet I''m 4 days into ROR via Agile Web Development. I looked at > the > Recipes site and it''s clear that before you can use a recipe you need to > learn how to cook. Apparently the book leaves much to the readers / > developers responsibilities, Could a beginner derive value and even > perhaps > satisfaction from this book or would it be just to frustrating trying to > come up with code that is not in the book ? > Hope my question is clear. > > StuartUnfortunately there is no warning that Rails Recipes is only for gourmet cooks. It wouldn''t be a total loss for me if each recipe had complete self-contained runnable code; you can at least see what it''s all about, and maybe pick your way around something that you can see is working because all the ingredients are there. Many times I find myself asking the questions, "Ok, so where do I put that code." Or, "How do I do that?" Or "What else do I need to do before or after I drop the garlic into the pan." I just hope that by the time I know enough (hey, it''s my fault that I don''t know enough!) to get those delicious recipes to run, they haven''t gone stale. I also have Bob Orsini''s Rails Cookbook. Very rough cut at the moment. It''s at my level of preparedness right now (I am a veteran Depot tutorialist; you don''t know how much you don''t know until you wean yourself from those tutorials and start creating your own app). .02 -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
On 6/8/06, Raymond Brigleb <rbrigleb@gmail.com> wrote:> I don''t believe there''s a Rails Cookbook.http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/railsckbk/index.html
"veteran Depot tutorialist" ...that''s funny. Actually I read about the "level" one should be at for Rails Receipes in the RR forum. In some ways (still working my way through the Depot) I''m not sure if having a tutorial like that in the beginning of the book is such a good thing. Things seem to progress very quickly where many points that could / should be made are not. Stuart On 6/8/06, Gene Kahn <kublaikhan55@hotmail.com> wrote:> > Dark Ambient wrote: > > May I get in on this thread please - I''ve been looking starry eyed at > > Recipes, yet I''m 4 days into ROR via Agile Web Development. I looked at > > the > > Recipes site and it''s clear that before you can use a recipe you need to > > learn how to cook. Apparently the book leaves much to the readers / > > developers responsibilities, Could a beginner derive value and even > > perhaps > > satisfaction from this book or would it be just to frustrating trying to > > come up with code that is not in the book ? > > Hope my question is clear. > > > > Stuart > > Unfortunately there is no warning that Rails Recipes is only for gourmet > cooks. It wouldn''t be a total loss for me if each recipe had complete > self-contained runnable code; you can at least see what it''s all about, > and maybe pick your way around something that you can see is working > because all the ingredients are there. Many times I find myself asking > the questions, "Ok, so where do I put that code." Or, "How do I do > that?" Or "What else do I need to do before or after I drop the garlic > into the pan." I just hope that by the time I know enough (hey, it''s my > fault that I don''t know enough!) to get those delicious recipes to run, > they haven''t gone stale. > > I also have Bob Orsini''s Rails Cookbook. Very rough cut at the moment. > It''s at my level of preparedness right now (I am a veteran Depot > tutorialist; you don''t know how much you don''t know until you wean > yourself from those tutorials and start creating your own app). > > .02 > > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060608/38e16ee2/attachment.html
Well you have gotten your answer. Recipes seems to be better for now. However if I can give one extra recommendation. Don''t just buy RoR books. Mix in standard Ruby books. For example the Pragmatic''s "Programming Ruby" should be a required reading and it is a great lookup book. Countless times have I looked up the pages for the Standard Library or the built in classes. No book has ever been as useful for me. The reason for why you should get Ruby books as well is not only to deepen you understanding on how RoR works. It''s also because RoR does only try to be for 80% of what you do. But that doesn''t mean that you have to use something else than Ruby for the other 20% of projects. Just means RoR is not the best choice for that particular thing. For some things you might even go for the Nitro Project. Some things are done as pure Ruby. On 6/8/06, Warren Seltzer <warrens@actcom.net.il> wrote:> > > Reviews Wanted. > I''ve read the tables of contents and haven''t yet made up my mind. > > Is one book clearly better than the other? Is one clearly full of bugs? Is > one so much further ahead that there is no choice? Are they both so > incomplete that I should just wait and only cook real food? Do trains still > have dining cars? > > Warren Fred > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > >-- -------------- Jon Gretar Borgthorsson http://www.jongretar.net/
J?n Borg??rsson wrote:> For > some things you might even go for the Nitro Project. Some things are > done as pure Ruby. >It''s kind of in bad form to throw in this "Nitro" thing when we are struggling with the understanding and concept of RoR :) ...Too many cooks in the kitchen... -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
If ya can''t stand the heat... ReggW wrote:> J?n Borg??rsson wrote: >> For >> some things you might even go for the Nitro Project. Some things are >> done as pure Ruby. >> > It''s kind of in bad form to throw in this "Nitro" thing when we are > struggling with the understanding and concept of RoR :) > > ...Too many cooks in the kitchen...-- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
I use the pickaxe (Programming Ruby) daily. I wish the index were in the table of contents (likewise for agile...) and I get annoyed that the libraries are alphabetized twice (a-z and then a-z for a different set) but I use it daily. I also get annoyed that the tabular data after the index is also omitted from the table of contents. Warren Seltzer -----Original Message----- From: Jon Gretar Borgthorsson [mailto:jon.borgthorsson@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 1:32 AM To: warrens@actcom.net.il; rails@lists.rubyonrails.org Subject: Re: [Rails] "Rails recipes" vs "Rails cookbook" Well you have gotten your answer. Recipes seems to be better for now. However if I can give one extra recommendation. Don''t just buy RoR books. Mix in standard Ruby books. For example the Pragmatic''s "Programming Ruby" should be a required reading and it is a great lookup book. Countless times have I looked up the pages for the Standard Library or the built in classes. No book has ever been as useful for me. The reason for why you should get Ruby books as well is not only to deepen you understanding on how RoR works. It''s also because RoR does only try to be for 80% of what you do. But that doesn''t mean that you have to use something else than Ruby for the other 20% of projects. Just means RoR is not the best choice for that particular thing. For some things you might even go for the Nitro Project. Some things are done as pure Ruby. On 6/8/06, Warren Seltzer <warrens@actcom.net.il> wrote:> > > Reviews Wanted. > I''ve read the tables of contents and haven''t yet made up my mind. > > Is one book clearly better than the other? Is one clearly full of bugs? Is > one so much further ahead that there is no choice? Are they both so > incomplete that I should just wait and only cook real food? Do trains still > have dining cars? > > Warren Fred > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > >-- -------------- Jon Gretar Borgthorsson http://www.jongretar.net/
When the next version of the Agile Rails book was announced, I bought both the printed and PDF version of the book. Right away it was obvious you could text search the PDF for the subject you were interested in making it a huge advantage. Receiving the updates is also pretty nice. I''m actually thinking about getting the same subscription for the Pike-axe book for the same reason. I wonder when Ruby 2.0 will show up though. Warren Seltzer wrote:> I use the pickaxe (Programming Ruby) daily. I wish the index were in > the table of > contents (likewise for agile...) and I get annoyed that the libraries > are alphabetized > twice (a-z and then a-z for a different set) but I use it daily. I also > get annoyed that > the tabular data after the index is also omitted from the table of > contents. > > Warren Seltzer-- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
I may be wrong but I''m under the impression that ruby 2.0 won''t be here for well over a year. On Fri, 2006-06-09 at 15:47 +0200, Hopeful Skeptic wrote:> When the next version of the Agile Rails book was announced, I bought > both the printed and PDF version of the book. Right away it was obvious > you could text search the PDF for the subject you were interested in > making it a huge advantage. Receiving the updates is also pretty nice. > > I''m actually thinking about getting the same subscription for the > Pike-axe book for the same reason. > > I wonder when Ruby 2.0 will show up though. > > Warren Seltzer wrote: > > I use the pickaxe (Programming Ruby) daily. I wish the index were in > > the table of > > contents (likewise for agile...) and I get annoyed that the libraries > > are alphabetized > > twice (a-z and then a-z for a different set) but I use it daily. I also > > get annoyed that > > the tabular data after the index is also omitted from the table of > > contents. > > > > Warren Seltzer > >Charlie Bowman Programmer Castle Branch Inc. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060609/64959fac/attachment.html
I''d like to also say that "Ruby for Rails" by David Black is a good book and one that gives you Ruby fundamentals as well as Rails. I''ve only started working through it however the flow seems well suited for a beginner like myself. Stuart On 6/9/06, Hopeful Skeptic <HopefulSkeptic@mailinator.com> wrote:> > When the next version of the Agile Rails book was announced, I bought > both the printed and PDF version of the book. Right away it was obvious > you could text search the PDF for the subject you were interested in > making it a huge advantage. Receiving the updates is also pretty nice. > > I''m actually thinking about getting the same subscription for the > Pike-axe book for the same reason. > > I wonder when Ruby 2.0 will show up though. > > Warren Seltzer wrote: > > I use the pickaxe (Programming Ruby) daily. I wish the index were in > > the table of > > contents (likewise for agile...) and I get annoyed that the libraries > > are alphabetized > > twice (a-z and then a-z for a different set) but I use it daily. I also > > get annoyed that > > the tabular data after the index is also omitted from the table of > > contents. > > > > Warren Seltzer > > > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060609/5313b7ab/attachment-0001.html
I have just the PDF of the pickaxe. Recently I searched for the ''send'' method. I saw it in some scaffold code. It took a long time for it to show up as a method because the word is used all over and Adobe Reader doesn''t search by just the word, so it showed me every ''sending''. If I''d started with the index I''d have been better off. But the index isn''t in the PDF table of contents so I can''t get there with one click. Send is a method in Object, by the way, that calls a method by its name, so to speak. Warren Seltzer -----Original Message----- From: rails-bounces@lists.rubyonrails.org [mailto:rails-bounces@lists.rubyonrails.org] On Behalf Of Hopeful Skeptic Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:47 PM To: rails@lists.rubyonrails.org Subject: [Rails] Re: RE: "Rails recipes" vs "Rails cookbook" When the next version of the Agile Rails book was announced, I bought both the printed and PDF version of the book. Right away it was obvious you could text search the PDF for the subject you were interested in making it a huge advantage. Receiving the updates is also pretty nice. I''m actually thinking about getting the same subscription for the Pike-axe book for the same reason. I wonder when Ruby 2.0 will show up though.
Jon Gretar Borgthorsson
2006-Jun-09 14:08 UTC
[Rails] Re: RE: "Rails recipes" vs "Rails cookbook"
you can search for "send " instead of "send". (notice the space) Worked for me. ;) On 6/9/06, Warren Seltzer <warrens@actcom.net.il> wrote:> I have just the PDF of the pickaxe. Recently I searched for the ''send'' method. I saw it > in some scaffold code. It took a long time for it to show up as a method because the word > is used all over and Adobe Reader doesn''t search by just the word, so it showed me every > ''sending''. If I''d started with the index I''d have been better off. But the index isn''t > in the PDF table of contents so I can''t get there with one click. > > Send is a method in Object, by the way, that calls a method by its name, so to speak. > > Warren Seltzer > > > -----Original Message----- > From: rails-bounces@lists.rubyonrails.org [mailto:rails-bounces@lists.rubyonrails.org] On > Behalf Of Hopeful Skeptic > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 4:47 PM > To: rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > Subject: [Rails] Re: RE: "Rails recipes" vs "Rails cookbook" > > > When the next version of the Agile Rails book was announced, I bought > both the printed and PDF version of the book. Right away it was obvious > you could text search the PDF for the subject you were interested in > making it a huge advantage. Receiving the updates is also pretty nice. > > I''m actually thinking about getting the same subscription for the > Pike-axe book for the same reason. > > I wonder when Ruby 2.0 will show up though. > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-- -------------- Jon Gretar Borgthorsson http://www.jongretar.net/
On 6/9/06, Warren Seltzer <warrens@actcom.net.il> wrote:> I have just the PDF of the pickaxe. Recently I searched for the ''send'' method. I saw it > in some scaffold code. It took a long time for it to show up as a method because the word > is used all over and Adobe Reader doesn''t search by just the word, so it showed me every > ''sending''. If I''d started with the index I''d have been better off. But the index isn''t > in the PDF table of contents so I can''t get there with one click.Preview.app is waaaaay faster. If you''re not on OS X that''s moot though.> Send is a method in Object, by the way, that calls a method by its name, so to speak.Not sure if I''m being a nit, but it send an object a message, rather than calling a method by name. In fact as far as I know, all method calls are simply sending a message to an object, but that object has a method defined somewhere to handle it. irb(main):001:0> class Foo; def method_missing(method); puts method; end; end => nil irb(main):002:0> Foo.new.send(:chicken) chicken Foo doesn''t have a #chicken method, but if it gets sent a message named chicken then method_missing picks it up (and any other message name in this case). On topic: I really like Rails Recipes. Check for my quote on the back when you receive your copy :) Pat
Hopeful Skeptic
2006-Jun-09 14:14 UTC
[Rails] RE: Re: RE: "Rails recipes" vs "Rails cookbook"
Warren Seltzer wrote:> I have just the PDF of the pickaxe. Recently I searched for the ''send'' > method. I saw it > in some scaffold code. It took a long time for it to show up as a > method because the word > is used all over and Adobe Reader doesn''t search by just the word, so it > showed me every > ''sending''. If I''d started with the index I''d have been better off. But > the index isn''t > in the PDF table of contents so I can''t get there with one click. > > Send is a method in Object, by the way, that calls a method by its name, > so to speak. > > Warren SeltzerTrue. There is very little entertainment value in checking a thousand "send" matches, and it is something I''ve encountered also. Still it has served me [personaly] well for most things. As far as Ruby 2.0 coming out in a year goes, [a year] is better news than [never]. As long as it shows up for the party and answers critics. I read an article on bitwize.com about some of the short comings in the language. They had valid points and it would be nice to have that stuff buttoned up. Here''s the URL in case you''d like to read it: http://bitwisemag.com/copy/features/opinion/ruby/ruby_debate.html -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
+1 for Ruby for Rails Can''t recommend it too highly. Dark Ambient wrote:> I''d like to also say that "Ruby for Rails" by David Black is a good > book and one that gives you Ruby fundamentals as well as Rails. I''ve > only started working through it however the flow seems well suited for > a beginner like myself. > > Stuart > > On 6/9/06, *Hopeful Skeptic* <HopefulSkeptic@mailinator.com > <mailto:HopefulSkeptic@mailinator.com>> wrote: > > When the next version of the Agile Rails book was announced, I bought > both the printed and PDF version of the book. Right away it was > obvious > you could text search the PDF for the subject you were interested in > making it a huge advantage. Receiving the updates is also pretty > nice. > > I''m actually thinking about getting the same subscription for the > Pike-axe book for the same reason. > > I wonder when Ruby 2.0 will show up though. > > Warren Seltzer wrote: > > I use the pickaxe (Programming Ruby) daily. I wish the index > were in > > the table of > > contents (likewise for agile...) and I get annoyed that the > libraries > > are alphabetized > > twice (a-z and then a-z for a different set) but I use it daily. > I also > > get annoyed that > > the tabular data after the index is also omitted from the table of > > contents. > > > > Warren Seltzer > > > -- > Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/. > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org <mailto:Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >
> On 6/9/06, Dark Ambient <sambient@gmail.com> wrote: > > I''d like to also say that "Ruby for Rails" by David Black is a good book and > one that gives you Ruby fundamentals as well as Rails. I''ve only started > working through it however the flow seems well suited for a beginner like > myself.I also recently picked up R4R; I''m very happy with the front 3/4s of it, the presentation order seemed to flow better than the Pickaxe for learning Ruby. However I was rather dissatisfied with the final section, the revist to the rails application. I was hoping to see more leveraging of the earlier concepts; there''s a ton of nearly duplicated code in the models and controllers, that I would have thought some sophisticated (but understandable given the earlier topic development) use of modules/reflection could have cleaned up nicely. This could have really driven home the point that using Ruby effectively amplifies your Rails productivity/expressiveness. Eric
This is why I have the PDF versions of these books -- I can search them! Curt On 6/9/06, Warren Seltzer <warrens@actcom.net.il> wrote:> > I use the pickaxe (Programming Ruby) daily. I wish the index were in the > table of > contents (likewise for agile...) and I get annoyed that the libraries are > alphabetized > twice (a-z and then a-z for a different set) but I use it daily. I also > get annoyed that > the tabular data after the index is also omitted from the table of > contents. > > Warren Seltzer > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jon Gretar Borgthorsson [mailto:jon.borgthorsson@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, June 09, 2006 1:32 AM > To: warrens@actcom.net.il; rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > Subject: Re: [Rails] "Rails recipes" vs "Rails cookbook" > > > Well you have gotten your answer. Recipes seems to be better for now. > > However if I can give one extra recommendation. Don''t just buy RoR > books. Mix in standard Ruby books. For example the Pragmatic''s > "Programming Ruby" should be a required reading and it is a great > lookup book. Countless times have I looked up the pages for the > Standard Library or the built in classes. No book has ever been as > useful for me. > > The reason for why you should get Ruby books as well is not only to > deepen you understanding on how RoR works. It''s also because RoR does > only try to be for 80% of what you do. But that doesn''t mean that you > have to use something else than Ruby for the other 20% of projects. > Just means RoR is not the best choice for that particular thing. For > some things you might even go for the Nitro Project. Some things are > done as pure Ruby. > > On 6/8/06, Warren Seltzer <warrens@actcom.net.il> wrote: > > > > > > Reviews Wanted. > > I''ve read the tables of contents and haven''t yet made up my mind. > > > > Is one book clearly better than the other? Is one clearly full of bugs? > Is > > one so much further ahead that there is no choice? Are they both so > > incomplete that I should just wait and only cook real food? Do trains > still > > have dining cars? > > > > Warren Fred > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rails mailing list > > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > > > > > > > > -- > -------------- > Jon Gretar Borgthorsson > http://www.jongretar.net/ > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060609/5d4f8e50/attachment-0001.html
At 02:52 PM 6/8/2006, you wrote:>"veteran Depot tutorialist" ...that''s funny.pm4ji, but i am a depot newbie. does anyone have the depot.css file referred to in Iteration B2: Add a Page Layout on page 92 of the ebook, where it says: " ... To make this all work, we need to add to our depot.css stylesheet. It''s starting to get a bit long, so rather than include it inline, we show the full listing starting on page ??. ..." thanks --- vice-chair http://ocjug.org/