wine users - Nov 2008 - Bringing Vista's Speech Recognition Engine to Linux via Wine

I have RSI (hurty hands) and need software for recognition of continuous speech.

Linux has nothing workable.  Dragon was bad even on Windows.

What's needed is a Linux speech engine, so that the linux crew can get
making a good GUI.

So I'm trying to bring over the Vista Speech Engine.  Here's my (failed)
attempt: http://womblezone.blogspot.com/

I'm trying to bring it over with the GUI (Speech Assistant).  Idea being if
that works, it's proof the engine's ported correctly.  Well it's not
working.

regsvr32 c:/windows/system32/Speech/SpeechUX/SpeechUX.dll

This fails.  with the following error:

wine: Call from 0x4b4775ab to unimplemented function
USER32.dll.ChangeWindowMessageFilter, aborting

I'm stymmied.  I looked up this function on MSDN and it looks like a whole
subsystem that isn't implemented.  Tomorrow I will try compiling a
'hello world' style speechapp from the WindowsSDK and see if I can port
that.  But I think this venture is beyond me.

Please please please lend a hand!  This is such valuable work!  I want to use
Linux _so_ much, but I will cripple myself if I continue typing like this.

Sam

On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:30 AM, Sam <wineforum-user at winehq.org>
wrote:
> I have RSI (hurty hands) and need software for recognition of continuous
speech.
>
> Linux has nothing workable.  Dragon was bad even on Windows.
>
> What's needed is a Linux speech engine, so that the linux crew can get
making a good GUI.
>
> So I'm trying to bring over the Vista Speech Engine.  Here's my
(failed) attempt: http://womblezone.blogspot.com/
>
> I'm trying to bring it over with the GUI (Speech Assistant).  Idea
being if that works, it's proof the engine's ported correctly.  Well
it's not working.
>
> regsvr32 c:/windows/system32/Speech/SpeechUX/SpeechUX.dll
>
> This fails.  with the following error:
>
> wine: Call from 0x4b4775ab to unimplemented function
USER32.dll.ChangeWindowMessageFilter, aborting
>
File a bug, that function is unimplemented.


-- 
-Austin

Sam wrote:
> So I'm trying to bring over the Vista Speech Engine.
This won't work. It relies on lots of unimplemented stuff. And you'll
have to have vista to use it. So what's the point?

Use Dragon it's working on Wine even better then on windoze.

>Sam wrote:
>> So I'm trying to bring over the Vista Speech Engine.
>
>This won't work. It relies on lots of unimplemented stuff. And
you'll have to have vista to use it. So what's the point?
>Use Dragon it's working on Wine even better then on windoze.
Look at the various versions of Dragon that run under wine. So far the gold
standard seems to be either DNS 7.3, which is VERY fast and available cheaply
because it is obsolete, and DNS 9.0 preferred, which is slightly slower and lots
more accurate.
DNS 10 Standard is a GREAT program and it's what I use, but it has one
annoying bug that makes it crash every once in a while. You may wish to wait for
that bug to be fixed.
DNS runs very fast and very accurately on Linux for continuous speech
recognition into Notepad. It's head and shoulders above anything else.
It's even faster on Ubuntu's real-time kernel, but that kernel itself
has bugs, so I wouldn't try it right away with Intrepid. (OK if you have
Hardy.)
I understand your wanting to use the Vista speech recognition, because you
probably got that free with a copy of Windoze, and DNS costs extra money, but
it's not the way to go on Linux.
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=2077

Thanks for that post, Susan!

I will get hold of Dragon 10.0 and play around...

My main concern is as a developer not a user though.

My objective is a FOSS GUI running on a FOSS SR-engine.

I can see a path to accomplishing this:
1) pull over a closed source engine
2) create the FOSS GUI for Linux that implements (1), and sends speech-data back
to a central database (such as VoxForge)
3) Once this database is suitably populated, we can crank up Sphinx, and we will
have everything FOSS.

I feel strongly the Linux community needs a raw SAPI-compliant
Speech-Recognition Engine, so it can build a FOSS GUI.  This is the reason I was
looking at porting the Vista engine.  I don't know whether the Dragon port
exposes a raw API.  I'll contact the maintainer.

Sam

This thread got split.  I'll post my answer here also.

There's good reason why I'm doing this.  It's explained if you
follow the link in the original post.  I'll summarize again:

My main concern is as a developer not a user.

My objective is a FOSS GUI running on a FOSS SR-engine.  Linux needs this. 
Badly.

I can see a path to accomplishing this:
1) pull over a closed source engine
2) create the FOSS GUI for Linux that implements (1), and sends speech-data back
to a central database (such as VoxForge)
3) Once this database is suitably populated, we can crank up Sphinx, and we will
have everything FOSS.

I feel strongly the Linux community needs a raw SAPI-compliant
Speech-Recognition Engine, so it can build a FOSS GUI. This is the reason I was
looking at porting the Vista engine. I don't know whether the Dragon port
exposes a raw API. I'll contact the maintainer.

Vitamin says 'what's the point?
1. Many people have copies of Vista.  It comes with nearly every new PC.  Many
linux users will have a Vista DVD.  The same is not true for Dragon.
2.  The MS engine is SAPI compliant and exposes a complete interface.  I
don't know about the Dragon interface.
3. The MS engine is very good.  I will be surprised if Dragon is as good.  Last
time I used Dragon it was far behind.

Does anyone have the energy to take this project on?  I'll file a bug and
keep chugging away.  But I am a tortoise.  It would be cooler than cool to get
some dev-fusion on this!

Sam

Sam wrote:
> I can see a path to accomplishing this:
> 1) pull over a closed source engine
> 2) create the FOSS GUI for Linux that implements (1), and sends speech-data
back to a central database (such as VoxForge)
> 3) Once this database is suitably populated, we can crank up Sphinx, and we
will have everything FOSS.
This is called stealing.


Sam wrote:
> 1. Many people have copies of Vista.  It comes with nearly every new PC. 
Many linux users will have a Vista DVD.  The same is not true for Dragon.
> 
You are wrong. Many people don't have that junk and don't want it to
begin with.

Austin:  The project I'm proposing is inseparable from Wine.  Without using
Wine it is not possible.  Wine is a vital ingredient.  Hence it is relevant.

The nub is this:  I would like some community focus on getting Vista's
Speech Engine ported via Wine.  It is likely going to be too difficult for
myself.  To do this, I need to justify the project, explain the motivation, that
it is something beyond myself, of community benefit (note that already one MS
sufferer has replied on the thread).  Otherwise who is going to work on it?

Specifically I have been called upon by Vitamin (whom I suspect to be trolling)
to justify the project: In order to do so, I need to zoom out.

Also please, as a matter of nettiquette, do not paste my entire post simply to
make such a comment.  It clogs the thread.  Please, let us have everything said
once and once only, for clarity's sake!

Vitamin, correct me if I am wrong, but if I own a legitimate copy of Vista, it
is not stealing.  I specifically stated in my post that a large number of Linux
users will posess legitimate copies of Vista.

So why are you saying it is stealing?  Pray enlighten me.

> 
> > 
> > Sam wrote:
> > 1. Many people have copies of Vista. It comes with nearly every new
PC. Many linux users will have a Vista DVD. The same is not true for Dragon.
> > 
> 
> You are wrong. Many people don't have that junk and don't want it
to begin with.

Your statement is true.  And mine is also true.  They don't conflict.  So
why do you say I am wrong?  Please pay me the respect of using your brain before
you wear out my fingers and patience with your facile one-liners.  If you
don't do this, I will cease to pay you the respect of a reply.

David: Probably not a good counter to argue.  MS almost certainly do own that
data.  I'm considering the cases (such as my own) where Linux users posess a
legitimate copy of Vista).

Elij: I hope it comes to pass.  Such work is in the domain of the Samauri that
wield the sword of tech at the cutting edge.  Let's hope one of them picks
up...

Sam

>Vitamin, correct me if I am wrong, but if I own a legitimate copy of Vista,
it is not stealing.  I
>specifically stated in my post that a large number of Linux users will
posess legitimate copies of
>Vista.
>
>So why are you saying it is stealing?  Pray enlighten me.
Let one of the lurkers here detail why what you describe is stealing:

It is illegal to use any patented technology in a manner that is not approved by
the patent holder.  Thus recreating any of the patented technology used by the
Vista Speech recognition software without the permission of Microsoft can and
probably will end up in several courts.  Microsoft has been known to use legal
tactics to shutdown competition.  This project, Wine, attempts to not use any
technology that Microsoft has patented.  If you don't like this, blame the
society in which we live.  The basic term for using patented technology without
license is called Stealing.  Thus, we cannot support, for legal reasons, what
you desire.  The Wine project is working on supporting Dragon Naturally
Speaking, because it does not require duplication of any patented technology and
for DNS 10, Wine does a very good job of supporting it.

Sadly, for those stuck with Vista, Wine will not be able to include that
technology.

Other projects may decide that it is worth pursuing work on this project so that
it may come to pass on operating systems that are not created by Microsoft. 
This is called commercial enterprise, and they may have to pay Microsoft for
licenses.  They may or may not decide to challange Microsoft in court. 
Microsoft may decide that they will issue free licenses.  However, I don't
think that they will support a direct competitor to their flagship and money
making product (that is my opinion based upon many years on this planet.)  You
are free to pursue a FOSS product that may or may not integrate with Wine.  That
is your decision.
> 
>> > Sam wrote:
>> > 1. Many people have copies of Vista. It comes with nearly every
new PC. Many linux users will have a Vista DVD. The same is not true for Dragon.
>> > 
You are required to buy Vista?  I don't think so.  I don't have Vista, I
don't want it and I will not have it.  I own a Mac, in fact several of them.
I have no need to get Vista as the operating system that comes with them works
just fine for me.

And Vitamin may be a little harsh, but he does mean well and states consisely
what I took many words to say:  Wine cannot and most likely will not support any
Microsoft patented technology for many reasons.

James McKenzie

David Gerard wrote:
> How on earth is that stealing? Microsoft doesn't own the speech data
> people have produced and gathered. Please explain your off-hand
> one-liner.

Who told you they don't own it?
If it came as part of Vista, they own it not you not me not anyone else who has
Vista.

This topic is closed. Don't bother posting here.