samba - Jun 2018 - chrony configuration for secondary samba DC

Am 03.06.2018 um 17:54 schrieb Rowland Penny via samba:
> On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 18:45:37 +0300
> Alexei Rozenvaser <alexei.roz at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> How you so sure about it?
>> Even at https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/samba chrony mentioned as
>> suggested related package
>> .
> 
> Ubuntu can recommend what they like, but Samba only recommends and
> supports ntpd.
no, you think so, you even maybe right but all you do in this thread is
stating personal opinions

NTP is defined in IETF RFC's and a decadesa old protocol and unless you
can point out a technical reason or even a protocol violation of
whatever implementation or that samba relies on a protocol violation
other implementations don't support samba supports NTP as a prococol and
not a specific implementation

just because you didn't try something don't say anything about technical
supported - NTP is not a C library with a API samba is linked against
and franly given that most distributions switching away from ntp.org
it's time to even *officailyl support* chrony which is the default
implementation in the Redhat world too, not only Ubuntu
> You can use whatever you like, but you cannot get support here for
> chrony.
this is still a *users* list
> Rowland Penny: Samba team member
don't make personal options a technical fact

Can't argue with that.
100% logical standpoint.
On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 7:36 PM Reindl Harald via samba
<samba at lists.samba.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> Am 03.06.2018 um 17:54 schrieb Rowland Penny via samba:
> > On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 18:45:37 +0300
> > Alexei Rozenvaser <alexei.roz at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> How you so sure about it?
> >> Even at https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/samba chrony mentioned
as
> >> suggested related package
> >> .
> >
> > Ubuntu can recommend what they like, but Samba only recommends and
> > supports ntpd.
>
> no, you think so, you even maybe right but all you do in this thread is
> stating personal opinions
>
> NTP is defined in IETF RFC's and a decadesa old protocol and unless you
> can point out a technical reason or even a protocol violation of
> whatever implementation or that samba relies on a protocol violation
> other implementations don't support samba supports NTP as a prococol
and
> not a specific implementation
>
> just because you didn't try something don't say anything about
technical
> supported - NTP is not a C library with a API samba is linked against
> and franly given that most distributions switching away from ntp.org
> it's time to even *officailyl support* chrony which is the default
> implementation in the Redhat world too, not only Ubuntu
>
> > You can use whatever you like, but you cannot get support here for
> > chrony.
>
> this is still a *users* list
>
> > Rowland Penny: Samba team member
> don't make personal options a technical fact
>
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the
> instructions:  https://lists.samba.org/mailman/options/samba


-- 
Alexei Rozenvaser

Just to make clear how ridiculous this has gotten [Not RP's position, but
the "opposition"] let me put the demands in context. I'll just
restate them so they are clearly as entitled and crazy as they really are.
>> Ubuntu can recommend what they like, but Samba only recommends and
>> supports ntpd.
RHvs> no, you think so, you even maybe right but all you do in this thread is
RHvs> stating personal opinions

"I demand that you take your time and product, which I've paid nothing
for, and use it to support the product in the way I feel entitled to use. I
should be able to make demands that you do what I want, even though I'm not
paying you a dime, and in which I'm not going to expend my own efforts to
support the user who wants to use Chrony. Instead I'm going to criticize RP
for not seeing things my way."

RHvs> this is still a *users* list

"I'm going to make demands that you do what I want, and you should
listen and do as I say, because I'm a user and so I should make the rules!
<stomps feet, falls on ground and screams>"
>> Rowland Penny: Samba team member
RHvs> don't make personal options a technical fact

"It doesn't matter what you think. <pokes fingers in ears and
screams "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!">

RP is offering support here, at no cost to any of us.
Samba provides the software for FREE.

And yet you feel free to be borderline abusive in demanding that RP support a
piece of software that's outside of the spec advocated by the Samba team?
Can you, perhaps, describe what seems to be wrong with this picture?

In the last week or two, I had a problem trying to get a FreeNAS box joined to a
pure Samba AD domain. I felt RP was quite helpful, even though I felt he
didn't entirely get what/why I was doing things the way I was. [I may well
end up being entirely wrong, just to be fair...] I was kind of frustrated. But
hell, I'm doing something kind of odd. And I'm doing it in a way
that's foreign to the way Samba does things.

So, the only polite response was that I simply let it go. I'll keep
struggling to find the best way forward. If/when I do find a way forward, and if
it's different than the Samba team recommends, I'll present the details
here on the list and get follow-up information. Perhaps "my" way will
become the "standard" and get published on the Wiki for everyone else
to use. But perhaps I'll find I was a total bonehead and RP was entirely
right the whole time and that I was just too un-knowledgeable/stupid/ignorant to
understand the issues involved.

But it would be a jerk of a move, for me to demand that RP [or anyone else on
the list] do it my way, and find a fix for the problems I'm having, doing
things in a way that's far outside the scope of the Samba project to
support. That would be an entitled wind-bag approach.

RP is willing to help get Samba running, and as part of that willingness, he
wants you to use NTP only, not Chrony. So, you're welcome to use Chrony and
see if you can make it work. But you can't do that AND demand that RP help
you.

If you want to use the BTP [bonehead time protocol] package - that's fine.
It will be on your head to demonstrate how it works and see if you can convince
the Samba team and others on the list to support your BTP package as
"official." And if you fail, a reasonable person would go quitely into
the night instead of standing up raging that you should be able to dictate to
others who are spending a vast amount of their time helping [for FREE] do it
your way.

I have just asked question at public mailing list.
I never demanding a thing.
I never forced anyone to answer me.
And no one is obligated to answer me.
Everything here is voluntary.
You are free to ignore me.
But I have to say that I don't like your tone and your accusations.

On Sun, Jun 3, 2018 at 8:54 PM Gregory Sloop via samba
<samba at lists.samba.org> wrote:
>
> Just to make clear how ridiculous this has gotten [Not RP's position,
but the "opposition"] let me put the demands in context. I'll just
restate them so they are clearly as entitled and crazy as they really are.
>
> >> Ubuntu can recommend what they like, but Samba only recommends and
> >> supports ntpd.
>
> RHvs> no, you think so, you even maybe right but all you do in this
thread is
> RHvs> stating personal opinions
>
> "I demand that you take your time and product, which I've paid
nothing for, and use it to support the product in the way I feel entitled to
use. I should be able to make demands that you do what I want, even though
I'm not paying you a dime, and in which I'm not going to expend my own
efforts to support the user who wants to use Chrony. Instead I'm going to
criticize RP for not seeing things my way."
>
> RHvs> this is still a *users* list
>
> "I'm going to make demands that you do what I want, and you should
listen and do as I say, because I'm a user and so I should make the rules!
<stomps feet, falls on ground and screams>"
>
> >> Rowland Penny: Samba team member
> RHvs> don't make personal options a technical fact
>
> "It doesn't matter what you think. <pokes fingers in ears and
screams "I CAN'T HEAR YOU!!!!">
>
> RP is offering support here, at no cost to any of us.
> Samba provides the software for FREE.
>
> And yet you feel free to be borderline abusive in demanding that RP support
a piece of software that's outside of the spec advocated by the Samba team?
Can you, perhaps, describe what seems to be wrong with this picture?
>
> In the last week or two, I had a problem trying to get a FreeNAS box joined
to a pure Samba AD domain. I felt RP was quite helpful, even though I felt he
didn't entirely get what/why I was doing things the way I was. [I may well
end up being entirely wrong, just to be fair...] I was kind of frustrated. But
hell, I'm doing something kind of odd. And I'm doing it in a way
that's foreign to the way Samba does things.
>
> So, the only polite response was that I simply let it go. I'll keep
struggling to find the best way forward. If/when I do find a way forward, and if
it's different than the Samba team recommends, I'll present the details
here on the list and get follow-up information. Perhaps "my" way will
become the "standard" and get published on the Wiki for everyone else
to use. But perhaps I'll find I was a total bonehead and RP was entirely
right the whole time and that I was just too un-knowledgeable/stupid/ignorant to
understand the issues involved.
>
> But it would be a jerk of a move, for me to demand that RP [or anyone else
on the list] do it my way, and find a fix for the problems I'm having, doing
things in a way that's far outside the scope of the Samba project to
support. That would be an entitled wind-bag approach.
>
> RP is willing to help get Samba running, and as part of that willingness,
he wants you to use NTP only, not Chrony. So, you're welcome to use Chrony
and see if you can make it work. But you can't do that AND demand that RP
help you.
>
> If you want to use the BTP [bonehead time protocol] package - that's
fine. It will be on your head to demonstrate how it works and see if you can
convince the Samba team and others on the list to support your BTP package as
"official." And if you fail, a reasonable person would go quitely into
the night instead of standing up raging that you should be able to dictate to
others who are spending a vast amount of their time helping [for FREE] do it
your way.
> --
> To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the
> instructions:  https://lists.samba.org/mailman/options/samba


-- 
Alexei Rozenvaser

Am 03.06.2018 um 19:52 schrieb Gregory Sloop via samba:
> Just to make clear how ridiculous this has gotten [Not RP's position,
but the "opposition"] let me put the demands in context. I'll just
restate them so they are clearly as entitled and crazy as they really are.
> 
>>> Ubuntu can recommend what they like, but Samba only recommends and
>>> supports ntpd.
> 
> RHvs> no, you think so, you even maybe right but all you do in this
thread is
> RHvs> stating personal opinions
> 
> "I demand that you take your time and product, which I've paid
nothing for, and use it to support the product in the way I feel entitled to
use. I should be able to make demands that you do what I want, even though
I'm not paying you a dime, and in which I'm not going to expend my own
efforts to support the user who wants to use Chrony. Instead I'm going to
criticize RP for not seeing things my way."
bullshit - the only thing i demand is *technical reasoning* and not
personal opinions like "i don't have ever tried something else than
ntpd"

On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 18:35:40 +0200
Reindl Harald via samba <samba at lists.samba.org> wrote:
> 
> 
> Am 03.06.2018 um 17:54 schrieb Rowland Penny via samba:
> > On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 18:45:37 +0300
> > Alexei Rozenvaser <alexei.roz at gmail.com> wrote:
> > 
> >> How you so sure about it?
> >> Even at https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/samba chrony mentioned
> >> as suggested related package
> >> .
> > 
> > Ubuntu can recommend what they like, but Samba only recommends and
> > supports ntpd.
> 
> no, you think so, you even maybe right but all you do in this thread
> is stating personal opinions
I am not stating my personal opinion.
> 
> NTP is defined in IETF RFC's and a decadesa old protocol and unless
> you can point out a technical reason or even a protocol violation of
> whatever implementation or that samba relies on a protocol violation
> other implementations don't support samba supports NTP as a prococol
> and not a specific implementation
> 
> just because you didn't try something don't say anything about
> technical supported - NTP is not a C library with a API samba is
> linked against and franly given that most distributions switching
> away from ntp.org it's time to even *officailyl support* chrony which
> is the default implementation in the Redhat world too, not only Ubuntu
It may be the default option in the redhat world, but at the moment, it
isn't in the Samba world, though this may change sometime in the future.
> 
> > You can use whatever you like, but you cannot get support here for
> > chrony.
> 
> this is still a *users* list
No, it is the Samba users mailing list.

Goodbye Reindl.

Rowland

Am 03.06.2018 um 20:08 schrieb Rowland Penny via samba:
> On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 18:35:40 +0200
> Reindl Harald via samba <samba at lists.samba.org> wrote:
> 
>>
>>
>> Am 03.06.2018 um 17:54 schrieb Rowland Penny via samba:
>>> On Sun, 3 Jun 2018 18:45:37 +0300
>>> Alexei Rozenvaser <alexei.roz at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> How you so sure about it?
>>>> Even at https://packages.ubuntu.com/bionic/samba chrony
mentioned
>>>> as suggested related package
>>>> .
>>>
>>> Ubuntu can recommend what they like, but Samba only recommends and
>>> supports ntpd.
>>
>> no, you think so, you even maybe right but all you do in this thread
>> is stating personal opinions
> 
> I am not stating my personal opinion.
you do as you alaways do be it about systemd or be it a jerk thread
about "no our mail infrastructure don't add reply headers" where
anybody
but you takes 5 seconds to see the opposite

you did not gave *any* technical argument why whatever software
IMPLEMENTING NTP would not work
>>> You can use whatever you like, but you cannot get support here for
>>> chrony.
>>
>> this is still a *users* list
> 
> No, it is the Samba users mailing list.
but still a USERS LIST and so maybe it would be a good idea as upstream
developer shut up and listen sometimes to get expierience of other users
you don't have
> Goodbye Reindl
grow up