thr3ads.net - Rails - Need a good RoR developer [Jan 2008]

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moattia

2008-Jan-18 03:19 UTC

Need a good RoR developer

Hi, I''m looking for qualified Ruby on Rails developers to work on a
client web portal project in Midtown Manhattan for a large financial
research company.

Requirement Overview:

Ruby / Ruby on Rails developer with strong object oriented programming
background. Good understanding of model driven architecture, MVC, RDBS
and data modeling.

Required Skill Set:

- BS. in Computer Science (or closely related field)
- 1+ years of Ruby on Rails or 2+ years predominantly using the Ruby
language
- Demonstrated experience/knowledge building high-volume and customer
facing database-driven web applications.
- Experience building n-tier Internet applications in Ruby on Rails
- Strong object-oriented design and development skills
- Good understanding of test-driven development methodology
- Thorough knowledge of relational databases, schema design and
implementation, and SQL query design.
- Hands on experience with Javascript, AJAX, HTTP, XHTML and Web
Services using both SOAP and REST.
- Good ability to translate requirements and functional specifications
into working applications with minimum guidance.
- Good communication skills and ability to interface with business
users

Majority of work must be done on site at client.




    * Compensation: Negotiable: Hourly, daily or fixed price
    * This is a contract job.
    * Principals only. Recruiters, please don''t contact this job
poster.
    * Please, no phone calls about this job!
    * Please do not contact job poster about other services, products
or commercial interests.
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RubyJob

2008-Jan-18 03:28 UTC

head link

Need a good RoR developer

I''m is looking for qualified Ruby on Rails developers to work on a
client web portal project in Midtown Manhattan for a large financial
research company.  I''m the hiring manager, not a recruiter.

Requirement Overview:

Ruby / Ruby on Rails developer with strong object oriented programming
background. Good understanding of model driven architecture, MVC, RDBS
and data modeling.

Required Skill Set:

- BS. in Computer Science (or closely related field)
- 1+ years of Ruby on Rails or 2+ years predominantly using the Ruby
language
- Demonstrated experience/knowledge building high-volume and customer
facing database-driven web applications.
- Experience building n-tier Internet applications in Ruby on Rails
- Strong object-oriented design and development skills
- Good understanding of test-driven development methodology
- Thorough knowledge of relational databases, schema design and
implementation, and SQL query design.
- Hands on experience with Javascript, AJAX, HTTP, XHTML and Web
Services using both SOAP and REST.
- Good ability to translate requirements and functional specifications
into working applications with minimum guidance.
- Good communication skills and ability to interface with business
users

Majority of work must be done on site at client.


    * US Citizens / Green card holder only please.
    * Compensation: Negotiable: Hourly, daily or fixed price
    * This is a contract job.
    * Principals only. Recruiters, please don''t contact this job
poster.
    * Please, no phone calls about this job!
    * Please do not contact job poster about other services, products
or commercial interests.
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Ryan Bigg

2008-Jan-18 04:00 UTC

head link

Re: Need a good RoR developer

Time for another Job Advertisement Dissection!

Hi, I''m looking for qualified Ruby on Rails developers to work on
a> client web portal project in Midtown Manhattan for a large financial
> research company.

"A large financial research company". Would it, by any chance, have a
name?
It''s incredibly smart (right up there with Einstein, Hawking & Co.)
to name
the company you''re advertising for! Also this helps people to go
"Oh look! A
reputable company!" or the other way which we won''t talk about :)

Ruby / Ruby on Rails developer with strong object oriented
programming> background. Good understanding of model driven architecture, MVC, RDBS
> and data modeling.

No need to repeat yourself three times! "Strong object oriented programming
background" and MVC comes standard with Ruby on Rails.

> - BS. in Computer Science (or closely related field)

Personally I don''t see why people want a Bachelor of Science in
Computer
Science or <insert other complicated degree here>. What does this prove?
That they have the money to do a course that probably didn''t teach them
a
single thing about Ruby on Rails? That they have large amounts of money to
throw around and, instead of spending it on that nice Audi A6 they saw a few
weeks ago.

>
> - 1+ years of Ruby on Rails or 2+ years predominantly using the Ruby
> language

It''s a bit hard to use Ruby on Rails without using Ruby! Here you
repeat
your need for a Ruby on Rails developer for a 4th time.

- Demonstrated experience/knowledge building high-volume and
customer> facing database-driven web applications.

Buzzwords! *generates mental image of PHB*

Web applications is a favourite of mine. I''d still prefer to call them
"web
sites", but I''m just old school.

>
> - Experience building n-tier Internet applications in Ruby on Rails

Repeated for a 5th time, the need of a Ruby on Rails developer is.

> - Strong object-oriented design and development skills

And 6th!

> - Good understanding of test-driven development methodology

Should come standard with any half-decent Ruby on Rails developer. If they
aren''t writing tests they are a fraud!

>
> - Thorough knowledge of relational databases, schema design and
> implementation, and SQL query design.

Again, any half-decent Ruby on Rails developer knows enough of this to be
competent. SQL query design MAY come in handy, but in 99.9% of times Rails
can do it for you.

> - Hands on experience with Javascript, AJAX, HTTP, XHTML and Web
> Services using both SOAP and REST.

Javascript IS Ajax! God. HTTP is a protocol and real programmers don''t
interact with it much at all. XHTML should, again (!), come standard. Ruby
on Rails follows more of a REST structure, having knowledge of SOAP is good
and all, but REST is where Ruby on Rails is at.
>
> - Good ability to translate requirements and functional specifications
> into working applications with minimum guidance.

"We tell you to do something, you just go away and do it without us having
to tell you again." does a better job I believe. Yes, it''s more
blunt, but
people in today''s world need blunt wording to get it into their heads.

>
> - Good communication skills and ability to interface with business
> users

I speak English. I''ve competently demonstrated that I know English
enough to
read your posts and interpret it into a way that I can understand, even
though English is my primary language, some people massacre it enough to
make me wish it wasn''t, although other people using other languages
probably
do the same to theirs. Prime examples of this include replacing common words
such as "you", "are", "to/too", "great"
with "u", "r", "2" and "gr8"
respectively.

I must make fun of the use of the word "interface". There are 23
synonyms
for this word, and you happened to use "interface". Wouldn''t
"work with" or
just "interact" be better wording? "Business users" are not
robots, yet. We
have no method of interfacing with them other than written/verbal
communicating. Sticking a USB cable into a "business user" will
probably
land you in a large court case. Other words include (thanks to
thesaurus.reference.com):

collaborate <http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/collaborate>,
combine<http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/combine>,
connect <http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/connect>,
contact<http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/contact>,
cooperate <http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/cooperate>,
interface<http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/interface>,
interplay <http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/interplay>,
interreact<http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/interreact>,
join <http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/join>,
merge<http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/merge>,
mesh <http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/mesh>,
network<http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/network>,
reach out <http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/reach%20out>,
relate<http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/relate>,
touch <http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/touch>, touch
base<http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/touch%20base>*,
unite <http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/unite>

all linked for your convenience (and my laziness, direct copy+paste)

> Majority of work must be done on site at client.

Which is in Manhattan... too bad you didn''t specify what company for.
We''ll
just have to hop around Manhattan looking for a "large financial
company".
I''m sure there can''t be too many of those in New York.

>    * Compensation: Negotiable: Hourly, daily or fixed price

You mean "Pay rate" right? When I see the word
"compensation" I think of it
like some fund established to pay victims of a horrible incident.
>
>    * This is a contract job.

How long? Any chance of extension?
>
>    * Principals only. Recruiters, please don''t contact this job
> poster.

My principal was an asshat. I''m sure you wouldn''t want to
speak with him.
Even the teachers thought he was. (I''m assuming you mean the
headmaster, and
yes, I''m joking)

>
>    * Please, no phone calls about this job!

Damn! I was just about to call you on the number you liste... oh wait! You
never listed a number! I guess it was left out along with the description of
the company too!



And I''m done. See you next job advertisement post.



-- 
Ryan Bigg
http://www.frozenplague.net
Feel free to add me to MSN and/or GTalk as this email.

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Ryan Bigg

2008-Jan-18 04:41 UTC

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Re: Need a good RoR developer

Wow this looks almost IDENTICAL to the OTHER large financial company in
Manhattan''s job posting!

http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk/browse_thread/thread/2948802cc56e6de7

Amazing!

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kopf1988

2008-Jan-18 04:47 UTC

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Re: Need a good RoR developer

I''m confused about that last part, lol.

Anybody near Manhatten? This guy NEEDS a programmer bad... wait, I
mean he needs a bad programmer. What he really needs is somebody with
an english major.

-RYan
http://www.ryankopf.com

On Jan 17, 10:41 pm, "Ryan Bigg"
<radarliste...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:> Wow this looks almost IDENTICAL to the OTHER large financial company in
> Manhattan''s job posting!
>
> http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk/browse_thread/thread/...
>
> Amazing!--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
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MohsinHijazee

2008-Jan-18 06:48 UTC

head link

Re: Need a good RoR developer

Great Dissection!
  Here, I had a chance of looking at job, they wanted a guy with five
years of experience handing Windows XP while the XP itself was
released just 2 years ago!


On Jan 18, 9:47 am, kopf1988
<kopf1...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:> I''m confused about that last part, lol.
>
> Anybody near Manhatten? This guy NEEDS a programmer bad... wait, I
> mean he needs a bad programmer. What he really needs is somebody with
> an english major.
>
> -RYanhttp://www.ryankopf.com
>
> On Jan 17, 10:41 pm, "Ryan Bigg"
<radarliste...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > Wow this looks almost IDENTICAL to the OTHER large financial company
in
> > Manhattan''s job posting!
>
>
>http://groups.google.com/group/rubyonrails-talk/browse_thread/thread/...
>
> > Amazing!--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
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Keynan Pratt

2008-Jan-18 06:59 UTC

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Re: Need a good RoR developer

Hiring manager or not get some one with some experience to draft the 
add. Your just embarrassing yourself.

Most of this community is not in Manhattan so If you can set things up 
so we can telecommute you might get a couple resumes.
-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

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Keynan Pratt

2008-Jan-18 07:03 UTC

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Re: Need a good RoR developer

*you''re

you saw nothing
-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

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manu.sharma

2008-Jan-18 10:46 UTC

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Re: Need a good RoR developer

Haa haaa haa ahaaa haaaa....this was superb!


On Jan 18, 12:03 pm, Keynan Pratt
<rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
wrote:> *you''re
>
> you saw nothing
> --
> Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
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John Ivanoff

2008-Jan-18 15:11 UTC

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Re: Need a good RoR developer

When an employer looks for a ROR developer, gets a name and decides to
look on the web to see how this person has contributed to the ROR
community, I''m sure these posts will reflect well.

Offering a way to write a job description might have been a better
response.

John

On Jan 18, 4:46 am, "manu.sharma"
<manu.shar...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:> Haa haaa haa ahaaa haaaa....this was superb!
>
> On Jan 18, 12:03 pm, Keynan Pratt
<rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
> wrote:
>
> > *you''re
>
> > you saw nothing
> > --
> > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
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Ryan Bigg

2008-Jan-19 14:16 UTC

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Re: Need a good RoR developer

If and when I establish my own company I will be surely doing a
background check on the people whom I''m hiring. I''ll be
looking for
people with a sense of humour, and the ability to actually apply
themselves to a task. If somebody would like to hire me (please do!
I''m out of a job as of next week, contract expiry and so on) they may
do so, I will probably even find a way to get myself there.

If people post vague job advertisements on here then sure I''m going to
point out the fallacies of it! I am also offering a way to write a job
description by pointing out the mistakes. In this case such things as
the following can be improved:

1) Naming the company
2) Providing an address less vague than "Manhattan"
3) Describing what tasks will be undertaken.

My job, at current, is not to tell people how to write job
advertisements. This would be a fantastic job! I am a programmer, a
satirist and I''d like to think I contribute a large portion of my time
to this community, 638 posts in the last two months can''t be bad!

If you''d like me to describe how to write a job advertisement (and
it''s approaching 1am here), here goes:

1) Look at other job advertisements. Gaze upon their cookie cutter
format, using buzzwords and other useless information.
2) Don''t be like them. Make your own. I don''t care if
they''re a 5000+
employee company. They suck.
3) Be unique. Put humour in it if you can. Make people remember your
advertisement.
4) Don''t repeat yourself! If I cared about a word in the job
advertisement it would''ve stood out and I would''ve remembered
it.

Please take what I wrote in my previous post as humour.

On Jan 19, 1:11 am, John Ivanoff
<john.ivan...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:> When an employer looks for a ROR developer, gets a name and decides to
> look on the web to see how this person has contributed to the ROR
> community, I''m sure these posts will reflect well.
>
> Offering a way to write a job description might have been a better
> response.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
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AndyV

2008-Jan-30 19:22 UTC

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Re: Need a good RoR developer

@John, I couldn''t agree more.  It''s almost fruitless to
respond to
each of the points, but here are some of the main ones:

* Why omit the company name?
Because there are contract whores who will be more interested in the
Gold Plate than the actual work to be done.  The absolute insistence
here on getting a company name certainly reflects that.  By avoiding
the name the poster actually will get people who are interested in
_doing the work_.  The more you advance in your career the more that
you''ll recognize that the type of work that you do is generally more
important than the name on the check you receive (well, the one
besides yours anyway).

* RoR = OOP, MVC?
Yes, Rails is an Object oriented, MVC framework, but that does not
mean that every RoR hack is very good at OOP or MVC.  For example, the
Google group post that I followed to your blog and eventually here did
a great job... of mixing business logic into the controller.  THAT IS
NOT MVC.  The previous one explained how to set a bit ("default") on
one object in a collection.  Simple enough, but what the recommended
solution did not recognize was that the action was really an action
that dealt with the collection and that setting that ''default''
attribute on one object in the collection was just a mechanical means
to an end.  That was poor OOP.  Physician, heal thyself.

* 2+ yrs of Ruby or 1+ yrs Ruby on Rails
This is one of the worst offenses in this "insightful" dissection.
The implication is that there are developers in the world whose
primary work has been in Ruby but with absolutely no use of Rails.
For example, there are several GUI frameworks that make cross-platform
desktop development possible in Ruby.  A friend of mine has written
some beautiful code that does very efficient bitmap processing as a
command line utility.  Again, no Rails but plenty of beautiful Ruby.
What the Rails community in general should recognize, as this
financial firm in Manhattan has, is that a solid knowledge of Ruby is
*more* important that Rails experience.  That is, a great Ruby
programmer with no Rails experience will be much more productive than
a Rails hack with no real Ruby knowledge.  You might consider these
broader implications before pontificating.

* Javascript is AJAX!
No, it''s not.  As elsewhere you seem to fail to recognize that
it''s an
instance in a collection.  AJAX is Javascript.  The relationship is
the other way around.  AJAX is a very specific use of Javascript and
it you simply rely on the Rails helpers (I suspect that you do) then
you have a great deal to learn.

On Jan 18, 10:11 am, John Ivanoff
<john.ivan...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:> When an employer looks for a ROR developer, gets a name and decides to
> look on the web to see how this person has contributed to the ROR
> community, I''m sure these posts will reflect well.
>
> Offering a way to write a job description might have been a better
> response.
>
> John
>
> On Jan 18, 4:46 am, "manu.sharma"
<manu.shar...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > Haa haaa haa ahaaa haaaa....this was superb!
>
> > On Jan 18, 12:03 pm, Keynan Pratt
<rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
> > wrote:
>
> > > *you''re
>
> > > you saw nothing
> > > --
> > > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.--~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
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kopf1988

2008-Jan-30 20:15 UTC

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Re: Need a good RoR developer

> * 2+ yrs of Ruby or 1+ yrs Ruby on Rails
> This is one of the worst offenses in this "insightful"
dissection.
I think I''ve found my new best friend, lol. I used to use Perl for all
my cgi applications, and I shudder to think of the thought these days.
Then, though, I found Ruby and switched all my combobulated apps to
the language and have been much more productive ever since. I got
absolutely NO help, though, because everyone asked "WHY NOT USE
RAILS???" Ruby is a fantastic language in and of itself, and should be
appreciated as such. 1+ Ruby experience or 2+ Rails experience is more
appropriate. Rails is more complicated if your jumping in from
nowhere, but if you know Ruby it is a breeze (emphasis on the ease).

-Ryan

On Jan 30, 1:22 pm, AndyV <a...-HmMyXyqgL2CVc3sceRu5cw@public.gmane.org>
wrote:> @John, I couldn''t agree more.  It''s almost fruitless to
respond to
> each of the points, but here are some of the main ones:
>
> * Why omit the company name?
> Because there are contract whores who will be more interested in the
> Gold Plate than the actual work to be done.  The absolute insistence
> here on getting a company name certainly reflects that.  By avoiding
> the name the poster actually will get people who are interested in
> _doing the work_.  The more you advance in your career the more that
> you''ll recognize that the type of work that you do is generally
more
> important than the name on the check you receive (well, the one
> besides yours anyway).
>
> * RoR = OOP, MVC?
> Yes, Rails is an Object oriented, MVC framework, but that does not
> mean that every RoR hack is very good at OOP or MVC.  For example, the
> Google group post that I followed to your blog and eventually here did
> a great job... of mixing business logic into the controller.  THAT IS
> NOT MVC.  The previous one explained how to set a bit ("default")
on
> one object in a collection.  Simple enough, but what the recommended
> solution did not recognize was that the action was really an action
> that dealt with the collection and that setting that
''default''
> attribute on one object in the collection was just a mechanical means
> to an end.  That was poor OOP.  Physician, heal thyself.
>
> * 2+ yrs of Ruby or 1+ yrs Ruby on Rails
> This is one of the worst offenses in this "insightful"
dissection.
> The implication is that there are developers in the world whose
> primary work has been in Ruby but with absolutely no use of Rails.
> For example, there are several GUI frameworks that make cross-platform
> desktop development possible in Ruby.  A friend of mine has written
> some beautiful code that does very efficient bitmap processing as a
> command line utility.  Again, no Rails but plenty of beautiful Ruby.
> What the Rails community in general should recognize, as this
> financial firm in Manhattan has, is that a solid knowledge of Ruby is
> *more* important that Rails experience.  That is, a great Ruby
> programmer with no Rails experience will be much more productive than
> a Rails hack with no real Ruby knowledge.  You might consider these
> broader implications before pontificating.
>
> * Javascript is AJAX!
> No, it''s not.  As elsewhere you seem to fail to recognize that
it''s an
> instance in a collection.  AJAX is Javascript.  The relationship is
> the other way around.  AJAX is a very specific use of Javascript and
> it you simply rely on the Rails helpers (I suspect that you do) then
> you have a great deal to learn.
>
> On Jan 18, 10:11 am, John Ivanoff
<john.ivan...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> > When an employer looks for a ROR developer, gets a name and decides to
> > look on the web to see how this person has contributed to the ROR
> > community, I''m sure these posts will reflect well.
>
> > Offering a way to write a job description might have been a better
> > response.
>
> > John
>
> > On Jan 18, 4:46 am, "manu.sharma"
<manu.shar...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > > Haa haaa haa ahaaa haaaa....this was superb!
>
> > > On Jan 18, 12:03 pm, Keynan Pratt
<rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
> > > wrote:
>
> > > > *you''re
>
> > > > you saw nothing
> > > > --
> > > > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text ---~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
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Rick DeNatale

2008-Jan-30 23:02 UTC

head link

Re: Need a good RoR developer

On 1/30/08, AndyV <arv7-HmMyXyqgL2CVc3sceRu5cw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
> * Why omit the company name?
> Because there are contract whores who will be more interested in the
> Gold Plate than the actual work to be done.
More likely that the job posting is from a head hunter who is trying
to keep prospective respondents from bypassing them and their
commission.

And often when two job postings look suspiciously familiar it''s
because they are from two different head hunters competing to fill the
same job for the same client.

-- 
Rick DeNatale

My blog on Ruby
http://talklikeaduck.denhaven2.com/

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Ryan Bigg

2008-Jan-30 23:18 UTC

head link

Re: Need a good RoR developer

On Jan 31, 2008 5:52 AM, AndyV
<arv7-HmMyXyqgL2CVc3sceRu5cw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> @John, I couldn''t agree more.  It''s almost fruitless to
respond to
> each of the points, but here are some of the main ones:
>
> * Why omit the company name?
> Because there are contract whores who will be more interested in the
> Gold Plate than the actual work to be done.  The absolute insistence
> here on getting a company name certainly reflects that.  By avoiding
> the name the poster actually will get people who are interested in
> _doing the work_.  The more you advance in your career the more that
> you''ll recognize that the type of work that you do is generally
more
> important than the name on the check you receive (well, the one
> besides yours anyway).

I want to know what kind of company I''m working for. If a company name
is
given to me and I know that they treat their employees like crap then I
don''t want to work for them.
>
>
> * RoR = OOP, MVC?
> Yes, Rails is an Object oriented, MVC framework, but that does not
> mean that every RoR hack is very good at OOP or MVC.  For example, the
> Google group post that I followed to your blog and eventually here did
> a great job... of mixing business logic into the controller.  THAT IS
> NOT MVC.  The previous one explained how to set a bit ("default")
on
> one object in a collection.  Simple enough, but what the recommended
> solution did not recognize was that the action was really an action
> that dealt with the collection and that setting that
''default''
> attribute on one object in the collection was just a mechanical means
> to an end.  That was poor OOP.  Physician, heal thyself.

And I suppose you''re infallible? What I suggested was to the best of my
knowledge and I sometimes make mistakes. How would you do it?
>
>
> * 2+ yrs of Ruby or 1+ yrs Ruby on Rails
> This is one of the worst offenses in this "insightful"
dissection.

Awesome!
>
> The implication is that there are developers in the world whose
> primary work has been in Ruby but with absolutely no use of Rails.
> For example, there are several GUI frameworks that make cross-platform
> desktop development possible in Ruby.  A friend of mine has written
> some beautiful code that does very efficient bitmap processing as a
> command line utility.  Again, no Rails but plenty of beautiful Ruby.
> What the Rails community in general should recognize, as this
> financial firm in Manhattan has, is that a solid knowledge of Ruby is
> *more* important that Rails experience.  That is, a great Ruby
> programmer with no Rails experience will be much more productive than
> a Rails hack with no real Ruby knowledge.  You might consider these
> broader implications before pontificating.

Triple word score for pontificating there.

The point was making was that somebody with Rails experience cannot have
Rails experience without having at least some Ruby experience. Yes, they may
not be versed in the "Ways of the Ruby" as well as a straight-out Ruby
developer, but they should know their way around these things.
>
>
> * Javascript is AJAX!
> No, it''s not.  As elsewhere you seem to fail to recognize that
it''s an
> instance in a collection.
Zuh?

>  AJAX is Javascript. The relationship is
> the other way around.

Um, right... that''s what I mean, AJAX is written in Javascript.

 AJAX is a very specific use of Javascript and> it you simply rely on the Rails helpers (I suspect that you do) then
> you have a great deal to learn.

Which rails helpers? link_to_remote and so on? These are much easier to type
than Ajax.Request(''/some/page'', { :asynchronous => true,
:yada => yada })



-- 
Ryan Bigg
http://www.frozenplague.net
Feel free to add me to MSN and/or GTalk as this email.

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AndyV

2008-Jan-31 18:13 UTC

head link

Re: Need a good RoR developer

> I want to know what kind of company I''m working for. If a company
name is
> given to me and I know that they treat their employees like crap then I
> don''t want to work for them.That''s the point of an interview.  Good luck landing one.
> And I suppose you''re infallible? What I suggested was to the best
of my
> knowledge and I sometimes make mistakes. How would you do it?I am far, far from infallible.  In this over-the-top dissection,
however, you hold yourself as something more than the "average"
developer.  You speak to these points with such an air of superiority
that you should have made the suggestion.  It''s been a major point of
discussion since Koz and Jamis talked about it (and later blogged
about it) at last year''s RailsConf.
> The point was making was that somebody with Rails experience cannot have
> Rails experience without having at least some Ruby experience. Yes, they
may
> not be versed in the "Ways of the Ruby" as well as a straight-out
Ruby
> developer, but they should know their way around these things.I completely understand your point, but you belittle the job listing
by saying "Here you repeat your need for a Ruby on Rails developer for
a 4th time."  No, they did not.  They really suggested they needed a
Ruby programmer (first) who may have experience with Rails (second).
You completely ignore the logic behind this.
> Which rails helpers? link_to_remote and so on? These are much easier to
type
> than Ajax.Request(''/some/page'', { :asynchronous =>
true, :yada => yada })Yes, that''s much simpler to write.  But there is also a great deal of
power behind javascript in it''s own right, and some situations in
which you don''t have the helpers around to write code for you.  That
just might be why they''ve included a who directory for javascripts and
even give you an application.js for collecting frequently used js.
Nah, too obvious.  Use the helpers.
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AndyV

2008-Jan-31 18:15 UTC

head link

Re: Need a good RoR developer

I got into the party with Rails, but found Black''s "Ruby for
Rails"
very early.  Amazing book.  Now it''s really the beauty and power of
Ruby that makes Rails so much fun with which to work.

Planning on going to RailsConf?

On Jan 30, 3:15 pm, kopf1988
<kopf1...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org>
wrote:> > * 2+ yrs of Ruby or 1+ yrs Ruby on Rails
> > This is one of the worst offenses in this "insightful"
dissection.
>
> I think I''ve found my new best friend, lol. I used to use Perl for
all
> my cgi applications, and I shudder to think of the thought these days.
> Then, though, I found Ruby and switched all my combobulated apps to
> the language and have been much more productive ever since. I got
> absolutely NO help, though, because everyone asked "WHY NOT USE
> RAILS???" Ruby is a fantastic language in and of itself, and should be
> appreciated as such. 1+ Ruby experience or 2+ Rails experience is more
> appropriate. Rails is more complicated if your jumping in from
> nowhere, but if you know Ruby it is a breeze (emphasis on the ease).
>
> -Ryan
>
> On Jan 30, 1:22 pm, AndyV
<a...-HmMyXyqgL2CVc3sceRu5cw@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > @John, I couldn''t agree more.  It''s almost fruitless
to respond to
> > each of the points, but here are some of the main ones:
>
> > * Why omit the company name?
> > Because there are contract whores who will be more interested in the
> > Gold Plate than the actual work to be done.  The absolute insistence
> > here on getting a company name certainly reflects that.  By avoiding
> > the name the poster actually will get people who are interested in
> > _doing the work_.  The more you advance in your career the more that
> > you''ll recognize that the type of work that you do is
generally more
> > important than the name on the check you receive (well, the one
> > besides yours anyway).
>
> > * RoR = OOP, MVC?
> > Yes, Rails is an Object oriented, MVC framework, but that does not
> > mean that every RoR hack is very good at OOP or MVC.  For example, the
> > Google group post that I followed to your blog and eventually here did
> > a great job... of mixing business logic into the controller.  THAT IS
> > NOT MVC.  The previous one explained how to set a bit
("default") on
> > one object in a collection.  Simple enough, but what the recommended
> > solution did not recognize was that the action was really an action
> > that dealt with the collection and that setting that
''default''
> > attribute on one object in the collection was just a mechanical means
> > to an end.  That was poor OOP.  Physician, heal thyself.
>
> > * 2+ yrs of Ruby or 1+ yrs Ruby on Rails
> > This is one of the worst offenses in this "insightful"
dissection.
> > The implication is that there are developers in the world whose
> > primary work has been in Ruby but with absolutely no use of Rails.
> > For example, there are several GUI frameworks that make cross-platform
> > desktop development possible in Ruby.  A friend of mine has written
> > some beautiful code that does very efficient bitmap processing as a
> > command line utility.  Again, no Rails but plenty of beautiful Ruby.
> > What the Rails community in general should recognize, as this
> > financial firm in Manhattan has, is that a solid knowledge of Ruby is
> > *more* important that Rails experience.  That is, a great Ruby
> > programmer with no Rails experience will be much more productive than
> > a Rails hack with no real Ruby knowledge.  You might consider these
> > broader implications before pontificating.
>
> > * Javascript is AJAX!
> > No, it''s not.  As elsewhere you seem to fail to recognize
that it''s an
> > instance in a collection.  AJAX is Javascript.  The relationship is
> > the other way around.  AJAX is a very specific use of Javascript and
> > it you simply rely on the Rails helpers (I suspect that you do) then
> > you have a great deal to learn.
>
> > On Jan 18, 10:11 am, John Ivanoff
<john.ivan...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > > When an employer looks for a ROR developer, gets a name and
decides to
> > > look on the web to see how this person has contributed to the ROR
> > > community, I''m sure these posts will reflect well.
>
> > > Offering a way to write a job description might have been a
better
> > > response.
>
> > > John
>
> > > On Jan 18, 4:46 am, "manu.sharma"
<manu.shar...-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:
>
> > > > Haa haaa haa ahaaa haaaa....this was superb!
>
> > > > On Jan 18, 12:03 pm, Keynan Pratt
<rails-mailing-l...-ARtvInVfO7ksV2N9l4h3zg@public.gmane.org>
> > > > wrote:
>
> > > > > *you''re
>
> > > > > you saw nothing
> > > > > --
> > > > > Posted viahttp://www.ruby-forum.com/.-Hide quoted text
-
>
> > - Show quoted text ---~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~
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