I''m curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the OO world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or non-OO scripting worlds? Reason I ask is that I''m finding Rails a blast and very productive, but I think one reason is that I already cut my teeth on MVC and ORM during two years of writing apps with J2EE/Struts/Hibernate. And in Javaland, it took me a while -- more than a few months -- to really wrap my head around those. I''m wondering, what''s the learning curve like for someone being exposed to OO/MVC/ORM for the first time through Rails? How long, on the average, does it take to feel comfortable? John _______________________________________________ John McGrath http://fryolator.com <http://fryolator.com/> -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060116/31d0358d/attachment.html
I was/am a very bad perl coder but the RoR conventions are way easier for me to comprehend than perls "Do it however you want" mentality. Granted I am still a bad RoR programmer but I can get things to a working stage much faster with RoR which makes it more fun to code, which will hopefully lead me to be a better coder. I knew nothing of OO programming, other than the concept, before diving into RoR. On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:42 AM, John McGrath wrote:> I''m curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of > the OO world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design > or non-OO scripting worlds? > > Reason I ask is that I''m finding Rails a blast and very productive, > but I think one reason is that I already cut my teeth on MVC and > ORM during two years of writing apps with J2EE/Struts/Hibernate. > And in Javaland, it took me a while -- more than a few months -- to > really wrap my head around those. > > I''m wondering, what''s the learning curve like for someone being > exposed to OO/MVC/ORM for the first time through Rails? How long, > on the average, does it take to feel comfortable? > > John > > _______________________________________________ > > John McGrath > http://fryolator.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails- Bill
I''ve spent several years as a jack-of-all-trades sort of programmer, doing everything from back-end Perl scripting and Java applications to PHP web applications to Websphere applications using Struts. RoR has by far been the most pleasant of these development experiences, partially due to the framework, but also due to the elegance of Ruby. On 1/16/06, John McGrath <jmcgrath@whoi.edu> wrote:> > I''m curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the OO > world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or non-OO > scripting worlds? > > Reason I ask is that I''m finding Rails a blast and very productive, but I > think one reason is that I already cut my teeth on MVC and ORM during two > years of writing apps with J2EE/Struts/Hibernate. And in Javaland, it took > me a while -- more than a few months -- to really wrap my head around those. > > I''m wondering, what''s the learning curve like for someone being exposed to > OO/MVC/ORM for the first time through Rails? How long, on the average, does > it take to feel comfortable? > > John > > _______________________________________________ > > John McGrath > http://fryolator.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060116/c5aad6aa/attachment.html
On Mon, Jan 16, 2006 at 10:42:41AM -0800, John McGrath wrote: } I''m curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the OO } world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or non-OO } scripting worlds? There''s a third option (and probably more, actually). The languages I have learned, as complete and in as close to chronological order as I can manage: 1) AppleSoft BASIC 2) Logo 3) Pascal 4) Bourne shell scripting 5) C 6) sed and awk 7) C++ 8) tcsh customization (not scripting, quite) 9) MIPS assembly 10) ml 11) Java 12) 486 assembly 13) Lisp 14) JavaScript (a.k.a. VRMLscript and ECMAscript) 15) vi/vim scripting 16) SPARC assembly 17) SQL 18) LaTeX 19) C++ again (the standard had changed radically, adding generics) 20) AppleScript (somewhat) 21) Objective-C 22) C# 23) VB.NET 24) Ruby Notably absent are Scheme, OCAML, Haskell, SmallTalk (though I did learn a very little bit), Perl, and Python. When I say I learned one of these languages, except as noted, it means I did some significant level of work in them (and I don''t necessarily mean paid work). Of them, my favorites are probably the sh/sed/awk triumvirate, C#, C++, and Ruby. MIPS assembly and ml have a certain elegance to them, but they aren''t too useful. } Reason I ask is that I''m finding Rails a blast and very productive, but I } think one reason is that I already cut my teeth on MVC and ORM during two } years of writing apps with J2EE/Struts/Hibernate. And in Javaland, it took } me a while -- more than a few months -- to really wrap my head around those. } } I''m wondering, what''s the learning curve like for someone being exposed to } OO/MVC/ORM for the first time through Rails? How long, on the average, does } it take to feel comfortable? The point is that I''m from the "lots of languages, lots of paradigms" world. It took me perhaps 16 hours to learn Ruby well enough to create a small Ruby on Rails app to kick the tires. Mind you, those 16 hours were spread out over the course of a few months, including the pickaxe book as bathroom reading and idly poking through Why''s Poignant Guide. I just ordered the Agile Rails book last week, so I expect to get deeper into it soon. Ultimately, there''s nothing new under the sun in language design. Even the seemingly novel plan to add query language support to C# is just a better implementation of embedded SQL. Knowing awk, ml/Lisp, and Objective-C is sufficient to grasp Ruby. The advances in languages have everything to do with incresing how much I can express clearly and precisely in each line of code; it''s a quantitative, not qualitative, difference. If I were dictator of the (software development) world, everyone who wanted to program would have to learn (and use for something significant) at least ten languages, including C, some kind of assembly, some true functional language (e.g. Haskell, Scheme, ml), SQL, some scripting language (e.g. sh/sed/awk, Ruby, etc.), and some "mainstream" OO language (e.g. C++, Java, C#, Obj-C). Learning a first language is hard. Learning a second language is sometimes even harder. Learning a fifth language is pretty easy. Learning a tenth is trivial. Learning a 20th is a lark. I try to learn a new language every couple of years. Aside from keeping me relevant, it helps me understand the languages I already know even better. } John --Greg
Came from Java + Struts + <name a framework>. Tired of xml configs... and tired of feeling bad for not knowing every single Java Framework out there (and there are LOTs of them). In the end, all those frameworks are the result of people trying to fix a bureocratic language. I am also a skilled C programmer. Ruby and RoR looks very nice... makes me wonder if I should also learn Python. Regards, Marcelo On 1/16/06, John McGrath <jmcgrath@whoi.edu> wrote:> > I''m curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the OO > world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or non-OO > scripting worlds? > > Reason I ask is that I''m finding Rails a blast and very productive, but I > think one reason is that I already cut my teeth on MVC and ORM during two > years of writing apps with J2EE/Struts/Hibernate. And in Javaland, it took > me a while -- more than a few months -- to really wrap my head around those. > > I''m wondering, what''s the learning curve like for someone being exposed to > OO/MVC/ORM for the first time through Rails? How long, on the average, does > it take to feel comfortable? > > John > > _______________________________________________ > > John McGrath > http://fryolator.com > > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060116/a3f5b0ac/attachment.html
I''ve been programming since I was a kid (right as the very first personal computers started appearing). I started in BASIC, of course, and have gone throughPascal, Smalltalk-80, C, C++ and Java. I now program mostly in Objective-C. I''ve dabbled in some other languages including FORTH, TeX, 68000 and PPC assembly, and more recently Ruby and Lua. More details at <http://mooseyard.com/Jens/2004/04/my-geek- history> I learned PHP last year and wrote a web app in it, but got tired of the language partway through. (PHP is approachable for quick hacks, but as a language it''s a real mess.) I''ve also gained a fair bit of experience with template languages, SQL, object/relational mappings and Ajax in the past two years through working on Safari RSS (which is implemented very much like a web app.) So yes, getting into Rails has been very nice, ever since I got the Agile Web Development book to fill the gap between the glib tutorials and the scary API docs. Overall it gives me the same warm fuzzy feeling that Apple''s Cocoa frameworks do: the sense that it was written by people who have written the kinds of programs I''m writing, and includes the solutions to the problems I''m likely to run into. --Jens
> I''m curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the OO > world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or non-OO > scripting worlds? >I spent the majority of my career (10ish years) as a C/C++ Windows application developer with a heavy emphasis on OO design. During that time I made two commercial applications using Java (early web applications using applets and servlets back in 2000) and have written a few things in Perl and Python. My interest in Rails started because I was interested in Ruby (5 being an object was compelling for pure OO) and getting back into web development. Rails encapsulates everything I might learn J2EE, PHP, and AJAX separately for in one framework/language, so it seems like a good start. Using a solid MVC framework that hooks into databases is a huge plus in my mind. Right now I''m half way through the Rails book and loving it so far. Once I''m done with the book, I''ll try writing a few apps of my own to see how well it works for me from scratch. In a month I should be able to answer the questions a little better but so far my main thought is "I wouldn''t mind doing this for a living". --Robert Stehwien
On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:42 AM, John McGrath wrote:> I''m curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of > the OO world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design > or non-OO scripting worlds?Pure OO Perl was my last stop.> I''m wondering, what''s the learning curve like for someone being > exposed to OO/MVC/ORM for the first time through Rails? How long, > on the average, does it take to feel comfortable?It took me a few weeks to feel pretty comfortable. I still struggle with Ruby at times, though. -- -- Tom Mornini -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060117/f15fc1de/attachment.html
Hm. I''m a hardware designer. Primarily with a DSP, communications theory, and coding theory background. I''ve dabbled with programming for a long time but my primary languages are: VHDL, Verilog, C++ Best tool for the job. For this one, it happens to be Ruby, I guess. Jake -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
How do I do this (but, you know, have it work)?: <%= render(:partial => "login") unless :action_name == "new" %> ...that is, how do I initiate a render unless the initiating action is called "new"?
you can inspect the path_parameters to get both the controller and the action e.g. path_parameters[:controller=>''user'', :action=>''new''] so I think that you could do: render(:partial => ''login'') unless @request.path_parameters[:action] == ''new'' %> On 1/16/06, Russ McBride <Russ@psyex.com> wrote:> > How do I do this (but, you know, have it work)?: > > <%= render(:partial => "login") unless :action_name == "new" %> > > ...that is, how do I initiate a render unless the initiating action > is called "new"? > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-- -------------------------------------------------------------------- I am Mark Daggett and I approve this message.
On Jan 16, 2006, at 10:49 PM, Russ McBride wrote:> > How do I do this (but, you know, have it work)?: > > <%= render(:partial => "login") unless :action_name == "new" %> > > ...that is, how do I initiate a render unless the initiating action > is called "new"?Probably better to use a before_filter like this: before_filter :login_required, :except => [:new] But your way would be: <%= render(:partial => "login") unless @params[:action] == "new" %>
I came from PHP, but I tried to create my own MVC framework in PHP. Then I leared Ruby, and I liked it, but I saw Rails later. So from PHP 1/2 OOP -> Ruby -> Rails -- Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
John McGrath wrote:> I''m curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the > OO world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or > non-OO scripting worlds?I started with Basic on the Spectrum and then Amiga computers. Got hooked on the web and Perl and used that for a few years before discovering PHP around version 3. I worked for a ''new media'' company before going to Uni and worked a fair bit with Flash and whatever version of Actionscript it was back then. Bares little resemblance to the AS code of today though. Went to Uni to do computer science and got stuck into Java, C, C++, C#, and a bit of Scheme. But still most of my day to day work was in PHP4 and I worked with that commercial since I left Uni right up till Rails came out and ''showed me the way''. After spending years trying to bend PHP to OOP styles and making my own frameworks to use in mine and my clients'' projects, Rails was a breath of fresh air. It''s exactly the direction I was moving in with my PHP frameworks and many of the concepts are the same, so it was very easy to make the change. I''m now back at uni for some reason, I came back to do a Masters in Management, and working on a Rails project which I hope to launch in a few weeks time. It''s been quite a ride! -- R.Livsey http://livsey.org
On 16/gen/06, at 19:42, John McGrath wrote:> I''m curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of > the OO world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design > or non-OO scripting worlds?I started with a Commodre Vic20, Basic V2. then I pass to C/64, then Pascal and finally to C Language. At university I learned also HTML, and I liked the web. I saw Java in the 1995/6 and when I got my master Thesis in 2000, I worked only in Java (I had used a bit of PHP for two months). Now I am a Leder Software Architecht in a J2EE/Struts/Hibernate/Ajax project and a bit tired of it. RoR is nice to use, true fast in respect of Java (and xml-ize sugar :) For my 2 cents, visit my site: http://daitangio.homeip.net/ Byeeee -- "Like the creators of sitcoms or junk food or package tours, Java''s designers were consciously designing a product for people not as smart as them." :: paul graham [ [ [ JJ ] ] ]
On 1/17/06, John McGrath <jmcgrath@whoi.edu> wrote:> > I''m curious -- how many of us came to Rails from other branches of the OO > world -- Java, C# -- and how many of us came from the design or non-OO > scripting worlds? > > I am a C++ OOP guy with little bit of experience in perl and absolutely noexperience in web development.(actually I am on the other side,web browser development).I decided to start with PHP but somehow I didnt like PHP''s basic philopshy of mixing logic inside html.I tried some templating engines but finally decided to use Rails..I guess anyone with a reasonably OOP background would not like anything other the MVC pattern which rails does so well. and about ruby,unlike perl I feel i am actually learning a programming language and not some tricks and hacks ;-) Vivek -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://wrath.rubyonrails.org/pipermail/rails/attachments/20060119/f125d901/attachment-0001.html