Rails - May 2006 - [OT] Interoperability - Was "We''re adding Rails development features to the S"

On 5/21/06, ReggW <me@yourhome.com> wrote:
>
> Rafael Zanetti wrote:
> > I never said I knew one IDE based on Visual Studio.
> >
> > What I really meant was: Why you, software companies, only think in
> > windows
> > as your development plataform? Not only for IDE but for everything.
> >
> Because its a platform with consistency and its what pays my bills.

 consistency? how about security and control? does windows know such things?
Take any application that runs both in windows and linux and you''ll see
that
in Linux it runs much better, eg. If you like games, try to run Unreal
Tournament in Windows and then run it in linux with the same machine
> Well, since windows users are so crazy for windows as linux users are
> > crazy
> > for linux, he don''t accepted my arguments, saying that there
will never
> > be a
> > serious company that user FOSS, or Linux as a development enviroment.
> >
> > Is that the point here? Software companies are like the ex P?o de
A?ucar
> > CIO, who once said "Linux, not even with a gun in my head, I
can''t trust
> > in
> > a OS that is mantained by a teenager". Or software companies just
> > develop
> > software for windows ''cause you really like windows?
> >
> > No flames please, but since Linux is a better, stable and faster (and
> > free)
>
> It seems to me it''s the Linux zealots that''s constantly
saying Linux is
> better...Linux is faster...Linux is ...
>
> But Windows owns over 80% of the market.
>
> It''s the Linux zealots that seem to have a chip on their shoulder.
>
> Let it go...they can both co-exist.

Yes they can, for sure they can, but Mr. Bill and Mr. Ballmer don''t
think
this way (have you ever read "Get the facts"?). I''m not
beeing a FOSS
preacher, since I believe you have to charge for your work, BUT
interoperability is the big point. I believe that companies MUST offer
multiplataform solutions since I WANT THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE!
> I can''t understand why so much difficulty in use it as a
> > development plataform... since Linux, in my opinion, is a OS made by
> > hackers
> > to hackers :D
>
> That is the main reason I don''t use it anymore.
>
> I don''t have the time or patients to try to figure how or why some
> "crazed" developer decided to do what what they did.
>
> In other words, because it''s an OS by hackers, there is no
consistency
> to the OS, to the programs you install, to how you install programs,
> funky configuration files with little or no help on it''s purpose,
etc...
>
>
> Since Linux lovers tell Windows lovers to use cygwin when a program
> doesn''t exist, I''m telling you to use VMWare and
Windows...that should
> solve your problem.
>
>
> Good Day :)

Have you ever tried any Debian-like Linux? Or Suse? or RedHat/Fedora?
I''ve
never found a easier way to install any software in Windows, since I must
first go to my software dealer and pay hundreds and hundreds of dolars for a
office solution (the MS Way).

I''m not against MS-Office or even MS-Windows (in my opinion, microsoft
only
lose to Apple in UI Design and usability), also, I''m not against take
money
from my work, but I must think in every user when I make a software. Take
the macromedia/adobe example... If they can port Studio MX to OSX, surelly
they can make a Linux Version...

Sorry for this great OT in this discussion, from my part I have nothing else
to say, except that I use Computers since I was 11 years old (I''m 25
now),
and I''ve never found a plataform so complete, fast, secure and stable
as
Linux. If you think different, well, great!!! It''s a free world and you
have
all the right to make your choises and have your opinion. This is called
Freedom, and that''s it what I''m defending here. My freedom to
choose my
plataform, and my right to find the software I need to be used in my
plataform, even if I must pay hundreds of dolars (or Reais, our currency) to
have it.
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>> Because its a platform with consistency and its what pays my bills.
> 
> 
>  consistency? how about security and control? does windows know such 
> things?
> Take any application that runs both in windows and linux and
you''ll see

I don''t have any security risk with Windows.
I believe Security is mainly the responsibility of the end-user, and 
since Windows does have so many more installs than Linux and it is so 
easy to use that anyone with no real computer experience can get it 
going, that this is the reason why you hear about security issues with 
Windows.  If the roles were reversed Linux would have the same problem.
> in Linux it runs much better, eg.
What is "runs much better", isn''t that subjective?
Windows runs just fine for me and I can find any application for it that 
I need.
If I can''t find the software, I create it...after all I am a software 
developer.
> If you like games, try to run Unreal
> Tournament in Windows and then run it in linux with the same machine
I don''t use computers for games, I use them to make money.
So since I don''t design games for computers I don''t play games
on them.

>> > develop
>> It''s the Linux zealots that seem to have a chip on their
shoulder.
>>
>> Let it go...they can both co-exist.
> 
> 
> Yes they can, for sure they can, but Mr. Bill and Mr. Ballmer
don''t
> think
> this way (have you ever read "Get the facts"?). I''m not
beeing a FOSS
> preacher, since I believe you have to charge for your work, BUT
> interoperability is the big point. I believe that companies MUST offer
> multiplataform solutions since I WANT THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE!
> 
You have the right to choose now, nothing is stopping you.
If you like Linux more, then choose it.

But if you think Microsoft is "obligated" to comform to Linux, because
you don''t like Windows, you''re dead wrong.
>> In other words, because it''s an OS by hackers, there is no
consistency
>> to the OS, to the programs you install, to how you install programs,
>> funky configuration files with little or no help on it''s
purpose, etc...
>>
>>
>> Since Linux lovers tell Windows lovers to use cygwin when a program
>> doesn''t exist, I''m telling you to use VMWare and
Windows...that should
>> solve your problem.
>>
>>
>> Good Day :)
> 
> 
> Have you ever tried any Debian-like Linux? Or Suse? or RedHat/Fedora? 
Yes I have and I still do run Fedora, I''m just not a fan of hacking 
configurations with or without proper documentation for EVERYTHING!!
> I''ve
> never found a easier way to install any software in Windows, since I 
> must
> first go to my software dealer and pay hundreds and hundreds of dolars 
> for a
> office solution (the MS Way).
This is NOT the MS way, it''s the American way (are you an illegal 
immigrant?)

OK, I see...your real beef is that you have to pay for it.
Even thou you just said "since I believe you have to charge for your 
work".
I think you are just confused.

I don''t mind pay for it if I''m getting what I want. To me
it''s better
than NOT getting what you but getting it for free.


> 
> I''m not against MS-Office or even MS-Windows (in my opinion,
microsoft
> only
> lose to Apple in UI Design and usability), also, I''m not against
take
> money
> from my work,
Now you''re OK with them charging money...You can''t make up
your mind.
You''re worst then Ross Perot.
> but I must think in every user when I make a software. 
> Take
> the macromedia/adobe example... If they can port Studio MX to OSX, 
> surelly
> they can make a Linux Version...
Maybe they can make a Linux version, but it''s people like you that want
it for free that discourages it.

> 
> Sorry for this great OT in this discussion, from my part I have nothing 
> else
> to say, except that I use Computers since I was 11 years old (I''m
25
> now),
Only 25!!
I''ve been doing this since 13 and I''m now 40.
Talk to me about software, business and competition when you decide to 
part ways with your X-Men lunch box.


-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

> This is NOT the MS way, it''s the American way (are you an illegal
> immigrant?)
> I''ve been doing this since 13 and I''m now 40.
doing what exactly, practicing xenophobic assholism?

Scott Mathieson wrote:
>> I''ve been doing this since 13 and I''m now 40.
> doing what exactly, practicing xenophobic assholism?
That''s the best you could come up with?


-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

On 5/21/06, Scott Mathieson <uberkorp@gmail.com>
wrote:
>
> > This is NOT the MS way, it''s the American way (are you an
illegal
> > immigrant?)
>
> > I''ve been doing this since 13 and I''m now 40.
> doing what exactly, practicing xenophobic assholism?

I believe so...

well, let''s go again...
>I don''t have any security risk with Windows.
>I believe Security is mainly the responsibility of the end-user, and
>since Windows does have so many more installs than Linux and it is so
>easy to use that anyone with no real computer experience can get it
>going, that this is the reason why you hear about security issues with
>Windows.  If the roles were reversed Linux would have the same problem.
Wrong, wrong, wrong
If you actually ever used Linux or studied it just a little bit, you''ll
probably know that it''s almost impossible to make a REAL virus for
Linux.
All the test from the so called "anti-virus" companies where made in
laboratories and not in the real world.
Windows is less secure, this is a FACT. It''s not because is more used,
but
because it''s structure is less secure...

>What is "runs much better", isn''t that subjective?
>Windows runs just fine for me and I can find any application for it that
>I need.
You should remember to thank Ballmer and Gates for that...
You see, in Brazil a long time ago (15 years at least) whe had a thing
called "Market reserve". Whe could only buy IT stuff from brazillian
companies.
Well, what microsoft does is a lot like that.
>If I can''t find the software, I create it...after all I am a
software
>developer.
Good for you.
>You have the right to choose now, nothing is stopping you.
>If you like Linux more, then choose it.
>But if you think Microsoft is "obligated" to comform to Linux,
because
>you don''t like Windows, you''re dead wrong.
No they''re not obligated... but they are "morally obligated"
to open MSWord
format, Excel format and all other formats... or use a open format.
>Yes I have and I still do run Fedora, I''m just not a fan of hacking
>configurations with or without proper documentation for EVERYTHING!!
That''s the problem with mostly of windows users... they don''t
like to
read... Once a friend o''mine said "Use linux, it will give you
back the joy
of reading" :D

>This is NOT the MS way, it''s the American way (are you an illegal
>immigrant?)
No comments here...
>OK, I see...your real beef is that you have to pay for it.
>Even thou you just said "since I believe you have to charge for your
>work".
>I think you are just confused.
No, it''s not... I didn''t make myself clear...
What I really meant was:
How to install software in Windows:
1 - Go to you software dealer and pay for the right to use the software, and
then you get a CD or a Download link
1.1 - If it''s a freeware, download it and pray for the Anti-spyware and
anti-virus software
2 - Install it using a copyrighted method, sometime called NNF (Next, Next,
Finish)
3 - Pray for not have a BSD (Blue Screen of Death or RSD Red Screen of Death
on Vista)
4 - Reboot
5 - Enjoy your program and stay tuned for updates

How to install Software in Debian-like distros
Advanced version
1 - press alt+f2 and type "sudo apt-get install _name_of_the_program"
2 - Enjoy your program

Simple version
1 - Open a program called Synaptic (or Adept)
2 - Choose your program from the list and press Apply
3 - Enjoy your program

Simple uhn?
>Now you''re OK with them charging money...You can''t make up
your mind.
>You''re worst then Ross Perot.
Incredible, really strange... yes... I''m right, mostly windows users
don''t
like to read...
>Maybe they can make a Linux version, but it''s people like you that
want
>it for free that discourages it.
No, I don''t want it free (as free beer), but free as in freedom.
>Only 25!!
>I''ve been doing this since 13 and I''m now 40.
>Talk to me about software, business and competition when you decide to
>part ways with your X-Men lunch box.
Uhhh look, it''s the great american old man who think he is the IT god
just
because he used a perforateed card to make a 2+2 equation in a machine...
When you stop with such conservative ideas, and start to see the NEW IT
you''ll may come and try to convince me that windows is a better
plataform.
After the "are you an illegal immigrant" stuff, I started to believe
that
you dislike linux ''cause it''s from Finland, not from North
america as MS and
it great OS.

best wishes

_______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>
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> I don''t use computers for games, I use them to make money.
> So since I don''t design games for computers I don''t play
games on
> them.
When someone says they use computers to "make money", it always  
sounds like they take no JOY in using them. Like it''s a "job"
rather
than an "occupation". I''m clearly making a SWEEPING
GENERALIZATION
here, but it seems like that''s the sort of person who doesn''t
"get"
things like Linux or Ruby, which seem to both require and reward  
having passion in them.

> But if you think Microsoft is "obligated" to comform to Linux,
because
> you don''t like Windows, you''re dead wrong.
Who''s asking for Microsoft to "conform"? This is a bit
different from
interoperating, I''d say, which means something like "recognize
that I
exist, and take me into consideration!" Microsoft does seem to wish  
to promote the myth that nothing exists but Microsoft. Linux zealots  
can''t let themselves fall into the same trap!

> This is NOT the MS way, it''s the American way (are you an illegal
> immigrant?)
> You''re worst then Ross Perot.
Clearly you''re pals w/ Bill O''Reilly! This is a Ruby list, be
nice!

> Only 25!!
> I''ve been doing this since 13 and I''m now 40.
> Talk to me about software, business and competition when you decide to
> part ways with your X-Men lunch box.
And DHH is... 26?


-- Michael Daines
    http://www.mdaines.com

On Monday 22 May 2006 03:57, www-data wrote:
> That''s the best you could come up with?
yep, we don''t have schoolin this side of the border

Scott Mathieson wrote:
>>This is NOT the MS way, it''s the American way (are you an
illegal
>>immigrant?)
> 
> 
>>I''ve been doing this since 13 and I''m now 40.
> 
> doing what exactly, practicing xenophobic assholism?
Guys,
One thing I know for certain is that the subjective distance in time is 
waaaay shorter from 45->60 than it is from 25->40.
Life''s too short for this kinda crap. Cut it out willyaz!!!

> When someone says they use computers to "make money", it always
> sounds like they take no JOY in using them. Like it''s a
"job" rather
> than an "occupation". I''m clearly making a SWEEPING
GENERALIZATION
> here, but it seems like that''s the sort of person who
doesn''t "get"
> things like Linux or Ruby, which seem to both require and reward
> having passion in them.
I''d say that''s a pretty accurate approximation. Wasting your
life
doing anything just to "make money" is a miserable state. And if you
can''t even play games to offset that sad fact, then its really looking
gloomy.
> > Only 25!!
> > I''ve been doing this since 13 and I''m now 40.
> > Talk to me about software, business and competition when you decide to
> > part ways with your X-Men lunch box.
>
> And DHH is... 26?
And just 23 when he started on Rails. It''s a common mistake to confuse
"years on the job" with experience, wisdom, or skill. Doing so is
usually also a good indicator in inadequacy, insecurity, and
trollness. On that note, we really shouldn''t throw more bones into the
cave.

Oh, and I''d love to have an X-Men lunch box! Lunch boxes are the best
and X-Men rocks. What''s not to like about that combination?
-- 
David Heinemeier Hansson
http://www.loudthinking.com -- Broadcasting Brain
http://www.basecamphq.com   -- Online project management
http://www.backpackit.com   -- Personal information manager
http://www.rubyonrails.com  -- Web-application framework

>> And DHH is... 26?
>
> And just 23 when he started on Rails.
I''m about to turn that age, so clearly I''m POISED FOR
GREATNESS.

There are all sorts of statistics, including age distribution, that I  
suddenly fancy knowing about the Ruby on Rails community. Perhaps  
that''s an idea for a Rails Day project.


-- Michael Daines
    http://www.mdaines.com