Rails - Jan 2006 - Not wishing to instigate a DB war, but...

Can I get some opinions on which free DB to use with rails for a virtual 
server that will eventually be doing lots of heavy database lifting? 
Not a lot of heavy duty querying per se.  Think multiple simultaneous 
forums and blog sites and the like.

I know each of the different DB possibilities such as MySQL and 
PostgreSQL has plus points and minus points.  I''m particularly 
interested in picking one that can take the worst beating without 
requiring hardware upgrades as often once it is being used by multiple 
simultaneous apps with lots of hits per day.

Where is an appropriate place to look for a complete list of supported 
DB flavors?

thanks,
jp

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Jeff Pritchard wrote:
> Can I get some opinions on which free DB to use with rails for a virtual 
> server that will eventually be doing lots of heavy database lifting? 
> Not a lot of heavy duty querying per se.  Think multiple simultaneous 
> forums and blog sites and the like.
> 
> I know each of the different DB possibilities such as MySQL and 
> PostgreSQL has plus points and minus points.  I''m particularly 
> interested in picking one that can take the worst beating without 
> requiring hardware upgrades as often once it is being used by multiple 
> simultaneous apps with lots of hits per day.
What is "lots of"?

I recommend MySQL for one reason: the query cache. This can be a huge 
advantage especially for web applications, where 99% of the queries are 
usually SELECTs. I don''t think any of the other supported DBs has a 
similar feature. I''m using MySQL for two forums 
(http://www.ruby-forum.com and http://www.mikrocontroller.net), a wiki, 
a shop and some other stuff, the total database size is 700 MB. With a 3 
MB query cache I get a hit rate of 80%. A hit is handled about 2 times 
faster than the most simple SELECT.

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

On 10/01/2006, at 4:08 PM, Jeff Pritchard wrote:
> Can I get some opinions on which free DB to use with rails for a  
> virtual
> server that will eventually be doing lots of heavy database lifting?
> Not a lot of heavy duty querying per se.  Think multiple simultaneous
> forums and blog sites and the like.
>
> I know each of the different DB possibilities such as MySQL and
> PostgreSQL has plus points and minus points.  I''m particularly
> interested in picking one that can take the worst beating without
> requiring hardware upgrades as often once it is being used by multiple
> simultaneous apps with lots of hits per day.
I recommend PostgreSQL for various reasons, but it really depends on  
what you''re doing. ''Lots of hits'' means nothing, how
many is lots?
How did you get the figure? What will those hits be doing? If you''re  
serving simple forum/blog sites MySQL will work fine, but be  
absolutely sure you''re using InnoDB - MyISAM sucks at concurrency. If  
you''re going for a really high volume of customisation per page with  
constant inserts (think 20+ per second) PostgreSQL will help more,  
it''s far better at concurrency, is truly ACID and even supports point- 
in-time recovery with sufficient admin knowledge, but it isn''t as  
easy to use.

For the record, most blogs and forums seem to be MySQL powered these  
days. LiveJournal and Wikipedia use MySQL.

--
Phillip Hutchings
phillip.hutchings@sitharus.com

> For the record, most blogs and forums seem to be MySQL powered these
> days. LiveJournal and Wikipedia use MySQL.
So does Basecamp, Backpack, Ta-da List, Writeboard, and all
forthcoming applications from 37signals. MySQL does a great job of
being an Application Database[1]. PostgreSQL definitely got smarter
chops for being an Integration Database[1]. Find out which database
style you''re going to be using before making your choice.

[1] http://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/DatabaseStyles.html
--
David Heinemeier Hansson
http://www.loudthinking.com -- Broadcasting Brain
http://www.basecamphq.com   -- Online project management
http://www.backpackit.com   -- Personal information manager
http://www.rubyonrails.com  -- Web-application framework

On Mon, 2006-01-09 at 22:40 -0600, David Heinemeier Hansson
wrote:
> So does Basecamp, Backpack, Ta-da List, Writeboard, and all
> forthcoming applications from 37signals. MySQL does a great job of
> being an Application Database[1]. PostgreSQL definitely got smarter
> chops for being an Integration Database[1]. Find out which database
> style you''re going to be using before making your choice.
> 
> [1] http://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/DatabaseStyles.html
Are you suggesting that MySQL is better at being a PostgreSQL for use as
an Application Database? 

In both scenarios, we (PLANET ARGON) encourage use of PostgreSQL... and
when it comes down to bigger concern, we prefer the license of
PostgreSQL (which is more similar to Rails) where MySQL is a
dual-license. You also need to consider the long-term legal issues
surrounding your choice.

...but I''m just a PostgreSQL fan. :-)

-Robby

-- 
/**************************************************************
* Robby Russell, Founder & Executive Director                 *
* PLANET ARGON, LLC | www.planetargon.com                     *
* Ruby on Rails Development, Consulting, and Hosting          *
* Portland, Oregon  | p: 503.351.4730 | f: 815.642.4068       *
* blog: www.robbyonrails.com | book: www.programmingrails.com *
***************************************************************/

On 10/01/06, Robby Russell <robby.lists@planetargon.com> wrote:
> ...but I''m just a PostgreSQL fan. :-)
no kidding :D

''Me too'', although it''s only fair to point out that
there seem to be
more outstanding ticketson the postgresql
adapter compared to the mysql adapter.


--
Rasputin :: Jack of All Trades - Master of Nuns
http://number9.hellooperator.net/

On 10/01/2006, at 6:37 PM, Robby Russell wrote:
> Are you suggesting that MySQL is better at being a PostgreSQL for  
> use as
> an Application Database?
>
> In both scenarios, we (PLANET ARGON) encourage use of PostgreSQL...  
> and
> when it comes down to bigger concern, we prefer the license of
> PostgreSQL (which is more similar to Rails) where MySQL is a
> dual-license. You also need to consider the long-term legal issues
> surrounding your choice.
>
> ...but I''m just a PostgreSQL fan. :-)
Same here. I used MySQL for 5-6 years and just find PostgreSQL nicer,  
especially as this works:

BEGIN;
DROP DATABASE important_table;_backup -- Don''t ask how I misplaced  
the semicolon. Just don''t.
  -- Realise mistake
ROLLBACK;

It''s a life saver when you have spider fingers ;)


--
Phillip Hutchings
phillip.hutchings@sitharus.com

Thanks guys. Appreciate the input, and thanks for keeping it civil.  I 
was worried I might start WWIII with that question.

Can anybody tell me the proper way to pronounce PostgreSQL?

thanks,
jp


Phillip Hutchings wrote:
> On 10/01/2006, at 6:37 PM, Robby Russell wrote:
> 
>>
>> ...but I''m just a PostgreSQL fan. :-)
> 
> Same here. I used MySQL for 5-6 years and just find PostgreSQL nicer,
> especially as this works:
> 
> BEGIN;
> DROP DATABASE important_table;_backup -- Don''t ask how I misplaced
> the semicolon. Just don''t.
>   -- Realise mistake
> ROLLBACK;
> 
> It''s a life saver when you have spider fingers ;)
> 
> 
> --
> Phillip Hutchings
> phillip.hutchings@sitharus.com

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

On 1/10/06, Jeff Pritchard <jp@jeffpritchard.com>
wrote:
> Thanks guys. Appreciate the input, and thanks for keeping it civil.  I
> was worried I might start WWIII with that question.
>
> Can anybody tell me the proper way to pronounce PostgreSQL?
post gres queue el

p - s - q - l   :)

On 1/10/06, James Ludlow <jamesludlow@gmail.com>
wrote:
> On 1/10/06, Jeff Pritchard <jp@jeffpritchard.com> wrote:
> > Thanks guys. Appreciate the input, and thanks for keeping it civil.  I
> > was worried I might start WWIII with that question.
> >
> > Can anybody tell me the proper way to pronounce PostgreSQL?
>
> post gres queue el
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

--
rick
http://techno-weenie.net

As you can see there are many ways of doing it. Here''s a survey about
it:

http://www.postgresql.org/community/survey.33

Bye,

Guy.

Family management on rails - http://www.famundo.com - coming soon!

On 1/10/06, Jeff Pritchard <jp@jeffpritchard.com>
wrote:
> Thanks guys. Appreciate the input, and thanks for keeping it civil.  I
> was worried I might start WWIII with that question.
>
> Can anybody tell me the proper way to pronounce PostgreSQL?
>
> thanks,
> jp
>
>
> Phillip Hutchings wrote:
> > On 10/01/2006, at 6:37 PM, Robby Russell wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> ...but I''m just a PostgreSQL fan. :-)
> >
> > Same here. I used MySQL for 5-6 years and just find PostgreSQL nicer,
> > especially as this works:
> >
> > BEGIN;
> > DROP DATABASE important_table;_backup -- Don''t ask how I
misplaced
> > the semicolon. Just don''t.
> >   -- Realise mistake
> > ROLLBACK;
> >
> > It''s a life saver when you have spider fingers ;)
> >
> >
> > --
> > Phillip Hutchings
> > phillip.hutchings@sitharus.com
>
>
> --
> Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
>

Hear it... :-)

http://www.postgresql.org/files/postgresql.mp3


On Tue, 2006-01-10 at 10:30 -0600, Rick Olson wrote:
> p - s - q - l   :)
> 
> On 1/10/06, James Ludlow <jamesludlow@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 1/10/06, Jeff Pritchard <jp@jeffpritchard.com> wrote:
> > > Thanks guys. Appreciate the input, and thanks for keeping it
civil.  I
> > > was worried I might start WWIII with that question.
> > >
> > > Can anybody tell me the proper way to pronounce PostgreSQL?
> >
> > post gres queue el
> > _______________________________________________
> > Rails mailing list
> > Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
> >
> 
> 
> --
> rick
> http://techno-weenie.net
> _______________________________________________
> Rails mailing list
> Rails@lists.rubyonrails.org
> http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
-- 
/**************************************************************
* Robby Russell, Founder & Executive Director                 *
* PLANET ARGON, LLC | www.planetargon.com                     *
* Ruby on Rails Development, Consulting, and Hosting          *
* Portland, Oregon  | p: 503.351.4730 | f: 815.642.4068       *
* blog: www.robbyonrails.com | book: www.programmingrails.com *
***************************************************************/

Phillip Hutchings wrote:
> On 10/01/2006, at 6:37 PM, Robby Russell wrote:
> 
> BEGIN;
> DROP DATABASE important_table;_backup -- Don''t ask how I misplaced
> the semicolon. Just don''t.
>   -- Realise mistake
> ROLLBACK;
DB Drops are logged in PGSQL? did u mean ''Drop Table'' ?

-Amr






-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

Robby Russell wrote:
> On Mon, 2006-01-09 at 22:40 -0600, David Heinemeier Hansson wrote:
>> So does Basecamp, Backpack, Ta-da List, Writeboard, and all
>> forthcoming applications from 37signals. MySQL does a great job of
>> being an Application Database[1]. PostgreSQL definitely got smarter
>> chops for being an Integration Database[1]. Find out which database
>> style you''re going to be using before making your choice.
>> 
>> [1] http://www.martinfowler.com/bliki/DatabaseStyles.html
> 
> Are you suggesting that MySQL is better at being a PostgreSQL for use as
> an Application Database?
> 
> In both scenarios, we (PLANET ARGON) encourage use of PostgreSQL... and
> when it comes down to bigger concern, we prefer the license of
> PostgreSQL (which is more similar to Rails) where MySQL is a
> dual-license. You also need to consider the long-term legal issues
> surrounding your choice.
> 
> ...but I''m just a PostgreSQL fan. :-)
> 
> -Robby
> 
> --
> /**************************************************************
> * Robby Russell, Founder & Executive Director                 *
> * PLANET ARGON, LLC | www.planetargon.com                     *
> * Ruby on Rails Development, Consulting, and Hosting          *
> * Portland, Oregon  | p: 503.351.4730 | f: 815.642.4068       *
> * blog: www.robbyonrails.com | book: www.programmingrails.com *
> ***************************************************************/

Same here. I switched from MySQL (after years of use) to PostgreSQL 
about two years ago and haven''t encountered a single situation where
I''d
rather use MySQL. Well, except of course when having to accommodate apps 
that are MySQL-centric (like Wordpress).

csn

-- 
Posted via http://www.ruby-forum.com/.

On 11/01/2006, at 2:31 PM, Amr Malik wrote:
> Phillip Hutchings wrote:
>> On 10/01/2006, at 6:37 PM, Robby Russell wrote:
>>
>> BEGIN;
>> DROP DATABASE important_table;_backup -- Don''t ask how I
misplaced
>> the semicolon. Just don''t.
>>   -- Realise mistake
>> ROLLBACK;
>
> DB Drops are logged in PGSQL? did u mean ''Drop Table'' ?
Hah, yes I did. PostgreSQL won''t let you DROP DATABASE in a  
transaction anyway, nice save ;) Another reason not to write SQL when  
you''ve taken the day off sick...


--
Phillip Hutchings
phillip.hutchings@sitharus.com