Dear subscribers of r-help, I would like to know your opinion about a privacy problem that I recently had after publishing to this list. Not a long time ago, I requested to the administrators of this list that they removed 2 or 3 old posts from mine. These posts were associating my name with an old company for which I worked a few years ago when you would look up my real name at google. I'm 100% aware that there are many mirrors of this list archive and that this is a hard work, however my point was to move their google references to later pages so that new people that look up my name would focus first on more recent work that I see as more relevant for what I would like to do in the future. This is the answer that I received from Mr. Winsemius: << Such a service is not available. Almost immediately rhelp postings are replicated in multiple websites around the world. The information that you could have (and should have) read at the time of signing up is here: https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help ... and the relevant sentence is: "Posters should be aware that the R lists are /public/ discussion lists and anything you post will be *archived and accessible* via several websites for many years.">>I followed up explaining that at that time I was too young to understand the consequences of what I was doing and that, honestly, I didn't pay attention to such a note. Mr. Winsemius didn't understand the reason of my request and therefore decided to ignore it, even after asking a representative from the company mentioned in my old posts to contact him to request the removal of such posts. At this point I feel completely powerless and disturbed that the administrators of the r-help list refuse to remove a text that I decided a long time ago to publish here. I don't think that they own the rights of what I wrote and I wonder what I have done wrong to be disrespected in such a way. Best regards, John Gonzalez (pseudonym) [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
On 13-09-12 9:40 AM, John Gonzalez wrote:> Dear subscribers of r-help, > I would like to know your opinion about a privacy problem that I recently had after publishing to this list. Not a long time ago, I requested to the administrators of this list that they removed 2 or 3 old posts from mine. These posts were associating my name with an old company for which I worked a few years ago when you would look up my real name at google. I'm 100% aware that there are many mirrors of this list archive and that this is a hard work, however my point was to move their google references to later pages so that new people that look up my name would focus first on more recent work that I see as more relevant for what I would like to do in the future. > This is the answer that I received from Mr. Winsemius:I think you misunderstood his response. Your request is not possible. The administrators of this list have no control over most of the sites that archive it. It's possible that you could approach those sites individually and ask each one to remove its copy of your postings, but it is unreasonable to expect the administrators of the list to do that for you, and honestly, I suspect you'll be unsuccessful in having your old messages purged completely. Your messages were public as soon as you sent them, and it's very difficult to erase public records. Duncan Murdoch> << > Such a service is not available. Almost immediately rhelp postings are replicated in multiple websites around the world. The information that you could have (and should have) read at the time of signing up is here: > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > ... and the relevant sentence is: > > "Posters should be aware that the R lists are /public/ discussion lists and anything you post will be *archived and accessible* via several websites for many years." >>> > I followed up explaining that at that time I was too young to understand the consequences of what I was doing and that, honestly, I didn't pay attention to such a note. Mr. Winsemius didn't understand the reason of my request and therefore decided to ignore it, even after asking a representative from the company mentioned in my old posts to contact him to request the removal of such posts. > At this point I feel completely powerless and disturbed that the administrators of the r-help list refuse to remove a text that I decided a long time ago to publish here. I don't think that they own the rights of what I wrote and I wonder what I have done wrong to be disrespected in such a way. > Best regards, > John Gonzalez (pseudonym) > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >
Hello! Just a short question: If you publish something, say a paper or book or report (in dead tree format = on paper), do you ask libraries and owners of this publication also to throw it away, because it is old or you have changed positions? If in the academic world every scientist would remove his/her publications because they are out of date or after changing position, the scientific literature would probably be more less non-existant. So, unless your postings are somehow offensive or abusive, I must say, I do not see your point, sorry! I hope my mail is not offensive for you, if yes, I apologize, but it expresses my own opinion... Albin (no pseudonym) Am 12.09.2013 15:40, schrieb John Gonzalez:> Dear subscribers of r-help, > I would like to know your opinion about a privacy problem that I recently had after publishing to this list. Not a long time ago, I requested to the administrators of this list that they removed 2 or 3 old posts from mine. These posts were associating my name with an old company for which I worked a few years ago when you would look up my real name at google. I'm 100% aware that there are many mirrors of this list archive and that this is a hard work, however my point was to move their google references to later pages so that new people that look up my name would focus first on more recent work that I see as more relevant for what I would like to do in the future. > This is the answer that I received from Mr. Winsemius: > << > Such a service is not available. Almost immediately rhelp postings are replicated in multiple websites around the world. The information that you could have (and should have) read at the time of signing up is here: > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > ... and the relevant sentence is: > > "Posters should be aware that the R lists are /public/ discussion lists and anything you post will be *archived and accessible* via several websites for many years." >>> > I followed up explaining that at that time I was too young to understand the consequences of what I was doing and that, honestly, I didn't pay attention to such a note. Mr. Winsemius didn't understand the reason of my request and therefore decided to ignore it, even after asking a representative from the company mentioned in my old posts to contact him to request the removal of such posts. > At this point I feel completely powerless and disturbed that the administrators of the r-help list refuse to remove a text that I decided a long time ago to publish here. I don't think that they own the rights of what I wrote and I wonder what I have done wrong to be disrespected in such a way. > Best regards, > John Gonzalez (pseudonym) > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at r-project.org mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >-- | Albin Blaschka, Mag.rer.nat. | Etrichstrasse 26, A-5020 Salzburg | * www.albinblaschka.info * | * www.researchgate.net/profile/Albin_Blaschka * | - It's hard to live in the mountains, hard but not hopeless!
Not only are you asking the administrators of an email list to alter data stored
on systems other than the ones they control, you are suggesting that they can
somehow alter search records stored in Google's servers. At best you are
naive. That does not mean you are the only person with such regrets... just that
the toothpaste is out of the tube and you still haven't learned from your
mistakes. I imagine you may still need to learn that there are scammers out
there willing to take large amounts of money from you to "fix" things
like this. Keep learning!
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Jeff Newmiller The ..... ..... Go Live...
DCN:<jdnewmil at dcn.davis.ca.us> Basics: ##.#. ##.#. Live
Go...
Live: OO#.. Dead: OO#.. Playing
Research Engineer (Solar/Batteries O.O#. #.O#. with
/Software/Embedded Controllers) .OO#. .OO#. rocks...1k
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Sent from my phone. Please excuse my brevity.
John Gonzalez <John.Gonzalez at gmx.fr> wrote:>Dear subscribers of r-help,
>I would like to know your opinion about a privacy problem that I
>recently had after publishing to this list. Not a long time ago, I
>requested to the administrators of this list that they removed 2 or 3
>old posts from mine. These posts were associating my name with an old
>company for which I worked a few years ago when you would look up my
>real name at google. I'm 100% aware that there are many mirrors of this
>list archive and that this is a hard work, however my point was to move
>their google references to later pages so that new people that look up
>my name would focus first on more recent work that I see as more
>relevant for what I would like to do in the future.
>This is the answer that I received from Mr. Winsemius:
><<
>Such a service is not available. Almost immediately rhelp postings are
>replicated in multiple websites around the world. The information that
>you could have (and should have) read at the time of signing up is
>here:
>
>https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>
>... and the relevant sentence is:
>
>"Posters should be aware that the R lists are /public/ discussion
>lists and anything you post will be *archived and accessible* via
>several websites for many years."
>>>
>I followed up explaining that at that time I was too young to
>understand the consequences of what I was doing and that, honestly, I
>didn't pay attention to such a note. Mr. Winsemius didn't understand
>the reason of my request and therefore decided to ignore it, even after
>asking a representative from the company mentioned in my old posts to
>contact him to request the removal of such posts.
>At this point I feel completely powerless and disturbed that the
>administrators of the r-help list refuse to remove a text that I
>decided a long time ago to publish here. I don't think that they own
>the rights of what I wrote and I wonder what I have done wrong to be
>disrespected in such a way.
>Best regards,
>John Gonzalez (pseudonym)
>
> [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
>
>______________________________________________
>R-help at r-project.org mailing list
>https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
>PLEASE do read the posting guide
>http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
> I would like to know your opinion about a privacy problem that I recently had after publishing to this list.Well, in short, you appear to have wilfully ignored the terms of membership of the list, posted intentionally on a public mailing list without checking where the posts would end up, complained unreasonably that their distribution surprises you, compounded that by claiming to be an irresponsible juvenile at the time of signing up ('too young to understand the consequences ...', you said?), and now publicly distributed an admission of wilful omission. On that basis, my opinion is that you neither have cause to complain, or to assert that the mailing list owners are to blame for your dismay at the consequences your actions. The responsibility is entirely your own. I am also of the opinion that the list owner was not showing disrespect by describing the state of affairs you agreed to on signing up, or by declining to act beyond the requirements of the conditions applicable to the list. Steve E PS: For the record, I am not associated with the management of this list and the above is a personal opinion and not given in any professional capacity. ******************************************************************* This email and any attachments are confidential. Any use...{{dropped:8}}
On Sep 12, 2013, at 8:40 AM, John Gonzalez wrote:> Dear subscribers of r-help, > I would like to know your opinion about a privacy problem that I > recently had after publishing to this list. Not a long time ago,> I requested to the administrators of this list that they removed 2 > or 3 old posts from mine. These posts were associating my name with > an old company for which I worked a few years ago when you would > look up my real name at google. I'm 100% aware that there are many > mirrors of this list archive and that this is a hard work, however > my point was to move their google references to later pages so that > new people that look up my name would focus first on more recent > work that I see as more relevant for what I would like to do in the > future. > This is the answer that I received from Mr. Winsemius:If you would use an honorific, it would be "Dr." I generally use 'David', however.> << > Such a service is not available. Almost immediately rhelp postings > are replicated in multiple websites around the world. The > information that you could have (and should have) read at the time > of signing up is here: > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > ... and the relevant sentence is: > > "Posters should be aware that the R lists are /public/ discussion > lists and anything you post will be *archived and accessible* via > several websites for many years." >>> > I followed up explaining that at that time I was too young to > understand the consequences of what I was doingI have no memory of incompetence by virtue of young age being offered as the basis for the request. My memory regarding the basis for the request was a desire not to be associated with the the domain name of the company in question because of a claim that they had used unethical practices. I determined with a Google search that there were multiple other sources of that information on various websites.> and that, honestly, I didn't pay attention to such a note. Mr. > Winsemius didn't understand the reason of my request and therefore > decided to ignore it, even after asking a representative from the > company mentioned in my old posts to contact him to request the > removal of such posts.If motive for not pursuing the issue, rather than policy and feasibility, is being questioned, it's more that I didn't see the reason (the originally alleged reason, not the recently revised argument) as compelling. There are a quite a few of my postings to newsgroups that I wouldn't mind seeing disappear and even a few on the Rhelp archives. I just don't think that my errors in judgment or knowledge deserve to be ignored. My hope is that I am judged on the balance of useful versus boneheaded.> At this point I feel completely powerless and disturbed that the > administrators of the r-help list refuse to remove a text that I > decided a long time ago to publish here. I don't think that they own > the rights of what I wrote and I wonder what I have done wrong to be > disrespected in such a way. > Best regards, > John Gonzalez (pseudonym) > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]]-- David Winsemius, MD Alameda, CA, USA