R help - Sep 2005 - The Perils of PowerPoint

Hi all,

Below is a URL for an editorial published today in our local newspaper,
the Minneapolis StarTribune. It was originally published in the
Washington Post a couple of days ago:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/29/AR2005082901444.html

but that site requires registration. The 'Strib" site seems to be open
for the moment:

http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5591930.html


I thought folks might find it interesting.

Best regards,

Marc Schwartz

The R relevance here might be that all the statistics in the world wrongly
applied to data will only bury its information content...    R and
Powerpoint (and Matlab and Perl and...) are all terrific tools for turning
data into knowledge, but tools DO NOT relieve us of the necessity of
thinking about and analyzing the meaning of the data with our intellect as
well.  It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!

My two cents,
Rob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Marc Schwartz" <MSchwartz at mn.rr.com>
To: "R-Help" <r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch>
Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 8:18 AM
Subject: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint

> Hi all,
>
> Below is a URL for an editorial published today in our local newspaper,
> the Minneapolis StarTribune. It was originally published in the
> Washington Post a couple of days ago:
>
>
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/29/AR2005082901444.html
>
> but that site requires registration. The 'Strib" site seems to be
open
> for the moment:
>
> http://www.startribune.com/stories/1519/5591930.html
>
>
> I thought folks might find it interesting.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Marc Schwartz
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide!
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ... Robert Baer
> Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM
....
> ....  It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!
Surely a fortune!

David L. Reiner

On Fri, 2 Sep 2005 12:27:45 -0500 davidr at rhotrading.com wrote:
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: ... Robert Baer
> > Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:30 AM
> ....
> > ....  It is wrong to blame ANY tool for our own shortcomings!
> 
> Surely a fortune!
thx, added to the devel-version of fortunes.

But allow me one remark: Although the above is certainly true, there are
computational tools that help us better to realize or avoid our own
shortcomings whereas others will make it harder to arrive at the right
conclusions.
I agree that PowerPoint cannot be blamed for the crash of the space
shuttle, but I also see the point that the way presentations are
generated in PowerPoint (or graphics in Excel) can easily tempt people
into producing presentations/graphics that conceal what is important.
This is certainly not an excuse, but I think some criticism (even
if phrased a bit provocatively) should be allowed.

just my EUR 0.02.
Z
> David L. Reiner
> 
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide!
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>

For some reason (probably that our organisation has blocked the site) I could
not see the original articles that prompted the post. I however immediately
assumed that this was precipitated by Tufte and his comments about PowerPoint (I
recall seeing a good example of PowerPoint on his site)
http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint

When this first came up I recall some dispute about the comments
www.sociablemedia.com/articles_dispute.htm and that John Fox did something
http://ils.unc.edu/~jfox/powerpoint/introduction.html that I enjoyed reading.

Other links that are lying on my computer are
"In defense of PowerPoint"
http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/in_defense_of_powerp.html
and "Does PowerPoint make you stupid?" at
http://www.presentations.com/presentations/delivery/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000482464
 
Tom
> -----Original Message-----
> From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch
> [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch]On Behalf Of Tim Churches
> Sent: Saturday, 3 September 2005 10:08 AM
> To: ted.harding at nessie.mcc.ac.uk
> Cc: Achim Zeileis; r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
> 
> 
> (Ted Harding) wrote:
> 
> >By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is
> >somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4
> >back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called
> >
> >  "Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation"
> >
> >which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte.
> >Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from "Listen Again" after
the
> >statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I
> >have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made).
> >  
> >
> Try http://sooper.org/misc/powerpoint.mp3 (copyright law 
> notwithstanding...)
> 
> Tim C
> 
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide! 
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>

Please, do not blame PowerPoint for a poorly prepared or delivered talk.
Blame the person who developed the presentation and the person who
delivered the talk. PowerPoint is a tool. It can use used well or it can
be used poorly. If I may quote a once popular newspaper cartoon
character, Pogo, "We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us".
John 

John Sorkin M.D., Ph.D.
Chief, Biostatistics and Informatics
Baltimore VA Medical Center GRECC and
University of Maryland School of Medicine Claude Pepper OAIC

University of Maryland School of Medicine
Division of Gerontology
Baltimore VA Medical Center
10 North Greene Street
GRECC (BT/18/GR)
Baltimore, MD 21201-1524

410-605-7119 
- NOTE NEW EMAIL ADDRESS:
jsorkin at grecc.umaryland.edu
>>> "Mulholland, Tom" <Tom.Mulholland at dpi.wa.gov.au>
09/06 2:26 AM >>>
For some reason (probably that our organisation has blocked the site) I
could not see the original articles that prompted the post. I however
immediately assumed that this was precipitated by Tufte and his comments
about PowerPoint (I recall seeing a good example of PowerPoint on his
site) http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint 

When this first came up I recall some dispute about the comments
www.sociablemedia.com/articles_dispute.htm and that John Fox did
something http://ils.unc.edu/~jfox/powerpoint/introduction.html that I
enjoyed reading.

Other links that are lying on my computer are
"In defense of PowerPoint"
http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/in_defense_of_powerp.html 
and "Does PowerPoint make you stupid?" at
http://www.presentations.com/presentations/delivery/article_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000482464

 
Tom
> -----Original Message-----
> From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch 
> [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch]On Behalf Of Tim Churches
> Sent: Saturday, 3 September 2005 10:08 AM
> To: ted.harding at nessie.mcc.ac.uk 
> Cc: Achim Zeileis; r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch 
> Subject: Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
> 
> 
> (Ted Harding) wrote:
> 
> >By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is
> >somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4
> >back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called
> >
> >  "Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation"
> >
> >which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte.
> >Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from "Listen Again" after
the
> >statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I
> >have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made).
> >  
> >
> Try http://sooper.org/misc/powerpoint.mp3 (copyright law 
> notwithstanding...)
> 
> Tim C
> 
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help 
> PLEASE do read the posting guide! 
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html 
>
______________________________________________
R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help 
PLEASE do read the posting guide!
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html

I don't understand why there's so much discussion on PowerPoint. IMHO,
that can only obscure the real thing:
	- The Perils of Miscommunication
	- The Perils of Not Taking Responsibility (if PowerPoint is to blame
for X, then who's to blame for choosing and using PowerPoint in the
first place?)
	- The Perils of Being an Idiot
	- and so on.
(I'm in grave danger here, and also responsible for using R.)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mulholland, Tom [mailto:Tom.Mulholland at dpi.wa.gov.au] 
> Sent: Tuesday, September 06, 2005 2:27 AM
> Cc: Achim Zeileis; r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
> 
> 
> For some reason (probably that our organisation has blocked 
> the site) I could not see the original articles that prompted 
> the post. I however immediately assumed that this was 
> precipitated by Tufte and his comments about PowerPoint (I 
> recall seeing a good example of PowerPoint on his site) 
> http://www.edwardtufte.com/tufte/powerpoint
> 
> When this first came up I recall some dispute about the 
> comments www.sociablemedia.com/articles_dispute.htm and that 
> John Fox did something 
> http://ils.unc.edu/~jfox/powerpoint/introduction.html that I 
> enjoyed reading.
> 
> Other links that are lying on my computer are
> "In defense of PowerPoint" 
> http://www.jnd.org/dn.mss/in_defense_of_powerp.html
> and "Does PowerPoint make you stupid?" at 
> http://www.presentations.com/presentations/delivery/article_di
splay.jsp?vnu_content_id=1000482464
 
Tom
> -----Original Message-----
> From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch
> [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch]On Behalf Of Tim Churches
> Sent: Saturday, 3 September 2005 10:08 AM
> To: ted.harding at nessie.mcc.ac.uk
> Cc: Achim Zeileis; r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch
> Subject: Re: [R] The Perils of PowerPoint
> 
> 
> (Ted Harding) wrote:
> 
> >By the way, the Washington Post/Minneapolis Star Tribune article is
> >somewhat reminiscent of a short (15 min) broadcast on BBC Radio 4
> >back on October 18 2004 15:45-16:00 called
> >
> >  "Microsoft Powerpoint and the Decline of Civilisation"
> >
> >which explores similar themes and also frequently quotes Tufte.
> >Unfortunately it lapsed for ever from "Listen Again" after
the
> >statutory week, so I can't point you to a replay. (However, I
> >have carefully preserved the cassette recording I made).
> >  
> >
> Try http://sooper.org/misc/powerpoint.mp3 (copyright law 
> notwithstanding...)
> 
> Tim C
> 
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide! 
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
>
______________________________________________
R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide! http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html

I incorrectly relied upon my memory 

...
> and that 
> John Fox did something 
> http://ils.unc.edu/~jfox/powerpoint/introduction.html that I 
> enjoyed reading.
The work is that of Jackson Fox

Tom

Chris Buddenhagen, Botany Department, Charles Darwin Research Station, Santa
Cruz,Galapagos. Mail: Charles Darwin Foundation, Casilla 17-01-3891 Avenida
6 de Diciembre N36-109 y Pasaje California Quito, ECUADOR
 
Dear all

1) I have been really pleased with R as a means of doing and learning
statistics. I work in a Spanish speaking country- and I wanted to pass on
the benefits of R to my Spanish speaking colleagues. There are a couple of
introductions to R in Spanish but I could only find Portuguese installation
option, is there a Spanish version of the fullref manual or the program?

2) You can some references out of R and the help files in BibTex or LaTex or
something, does anyone have the refs entered into endnote? Can you extract
them into something readable by endnote?

Chris Buddenhagen, Botany Department, Charles Darwin Research Station, Santa
Cruz, Galapagos
Mailing address: Charles Darwin Foundation Casilla 17-01-3891 Avenida 6 de
Diciembre N36-109 y Pasaje California Quito, ECUADOR






______________________________________________________________________
EL CONTENIDO DE ESTE MENSAJE ES DE ABSOLUTA RESPONSABILIDAD DEL AUTOR.
FUNDACION CHARLES DARWIN
WWW.DARWINFOUNDATION.ORG

On Wed, 7 Sep 2005, Chris Buddenhagen wrote:
>
> 1) I have been really pleased with R as a means of doing and learning
> statistics. I work in a Spanish speaking country- and I wanted to pass on
> the benefits of R to my Spanish speaking colleagues. There are a couple of
> introductions to R in Spanish but I could only find Portuguese installation
> option, is there a Spanish version of the fullref manual or the program?
Not at the moment.  The translations rely very heavily on volunteers who 
actually know the languages in question. Spanish-speaking users have 
contributed documentation, but we have no translation teams for any 
version of Spanish.
> 2) You can some references out of R and the help files in BibTex or LaTex
or
> something, does anyone have the refs entered into endnote? Can you extract
> them into something readable by endnote?
There are bibtex to endnote converters out there on the web
One is at
  http://www.cs.usyd.edu.au/~tapted/bib2endnote.html


 	-thomas