Nut upsuser - Jul 2013 - How to find out the output of "upsc" for each UPS model supported by NUT ?

Hi

When purchasing a new UPS, one of the major functionalities I would 
assess, is the support is has by NUT.
We have the http://www.networkupstools.org/stable-hcl.html page, where 
we can see if a UPS is supported, and what the level is.

But I would really like to have more knowledge.
I would like to know how the output from the "upsc" looks, so I know 
what values I will get from the UPS using NUT.
For example, does the UPS report "time left on battery", "time to
charge", "ups.load", "date and time" etc, etc.

I think it would be nice to have a web page (somewhere, I do not know 
where), for each UPS model, listing the output of "upsc", which can be
supplied by NUT users having the hardware.
This has proven valuable for me for example when buying laptops, then I 
always use thinkwiki.org, to check what is supported on linux for a 
specific laptop model,
for example like this http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:W510 and 
http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:W530.

Do other NUT users miss knowing exactly how the upsc output will look 
for a UPS model ?
Does anyone have opinions on where we could record such information ? 
Should it be one page per model, or one page per driver with a section 
for each model ?

I am particularly interested in knowing how the output is from UPSes 
handled by the general usb driver in NUT.
Do they report enough info so one can see / calculate the power usage of 
the UPS ?
For example, the 
http://powerquality.eaton.com/Products-services/Backup-Power-UPS/5P.aspx, can 
I expect to get info about energy metering using "upsc" ?


Regards
Alf H?gemark

On 7/7/2013 at 12:09 PM Alf H?gemark wrote:

|Hi
|
|When purchasing a new UPS, one of the major functionalities I would 
|assess, is the support is has by NUT.
|We have the http://www.networkupstools.org/stable-hcl.html page, where

|we can see if a UPS is supported, and what the level is.
|
|But I would really like to have more knowledge.
|I would like to know how the output from the "upsc" looks, so I know 
|what values I will get from the UPS using NUT.
|For example, does the UPS report "time left on battery", "time
to
|charge", "ups.load", "date and time" etc, etc.
|
|I think it would be nice to have a web page (somewhere, I do not know 
|where), for each UPS model, listing the output of "upsc", which can
be

|supplied by NUT users having the hardware.
|This has proven valuable for me for example when buying laptops, then
I 
|always use thinkwiki.org, to check what is supported on linux for a 
|specific laptop model,
|for example like this http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:W510 and 
|http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:W530.
|
|Do other NUT users miss knowing exactly how the upsc output will look 
|for a UPS model ?
|Does anyone have opinions on where we could record such information ? 
|Should it be one page per model, or one page per driver with a section

|for each model ?
|
|I am particularly interested in knowing how the output is from UPSes 
|handled by the general usb driver in NUT.
|Do they report enough info so one can see / calculate the power usage
of 
|the UPS ?
|For example, the 
|http://powerquality.eaton.com/Products-services/Backup-Power-UPS/5P.asp
x,
|can 
|I expect to get info about energy metering using "upsc" ?
 ============
The exact output of upsc is the lesser of two concerns for me.  My main
concern is what UPS variables can I control via NUT?

I recently tried to change the shutdown delay of my UPS.  Even though
upsc displays the value of the shutdown delay, it cannot be changed.

On Jul 7, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Alf H?gemark wrote:
> Do other NUT users miss knowing exactly how the upsc output will look for a
UPS model ?
> Does anyone have opinions on where we could record such information ?
Should it be one page per model, or one page per driver with a section for each
model ?
It would be nice to collect this information somehow. At the moment, we only
really have upsc information for the UPS models which have been problematic,
plus a few more emails where users have sent HCL updates.

The exact organization of the content probably doesn't matter, so long as
the output is cross-referenced with a driver. (In the Thinkwiki example, their
use of categories seemed backwards to me at first. However, it is useful to know
whether a given laptop supports a particular feature, and the category listing
at the bottom provides that nicely.)

I would be curious to hear what others think about a wiki or similar
user-editable resource. The NUT HCL was never meant to fill that role, but a
completely free-form wiki might not be as useful as a custom web site. In either
case, we would need to have some decent spam protection. The NUT Trac instance
was hit fairly hard a while ago.

Mike brings up an important point, in that NUT can only relay the information
that the UPS provides. If that information is incorrect, this sort of repository
could flag those variables or instant commands as being improperly implemented
by the UPS.

Perhaps we could do something like those online UPS sizing wizards: ask the user
which features matter most, and show a filtered list of suggested UPS models.

The biggest issue in my mind is that UPS vendors frequently change things out
under the hood without changing the model name. Sometimes it is for the better -
Powercom shifted to a standard USB HID PDC interface (which was easier to
support in NUT). However, APC apparently dropped support for a lot of variables
from their HID PDC interface in favor of their proprietary Microlink protocol
(see apcupsd.com for more information).

Maybe we can steer people away from bad UPS models or vendors, but in the end,
if I were purchasing a new UPS, I would want a no-questions-asked, open box
refund policy from the distributor.

Alf: I like this idea, but I don't have the free time to help with this for
a while. (We still need to get the first Git-based source release out the door.)
Feel free to take this idea and run with it.

-- 
Charles Lepple
clepple at gmail

On 07/07/2013 10:03 PM, Charles Lepple wrote:
> On Jul 7, 2013, at 6:09 AM, Alf H?gemark wrote:
>
>> Do other NUT users miss knowing exactly how the upsc output will look
for a UPS model ?
>> Does anyone have opinions on where we could record such information ?
Should it be one page per model, or one page per driver with a section for each
model ?
> It would be nice to collect this information somehow. At the moment, we
only really have upsc information for the UPS models which have been
problematic, plus a few more emails where users have sent HCL updates.
>
> The exact organization of the content probably doesn't matter, so long
as the output is cross-referenced with a driver. (In the Thinkwiki example,
their use of categories seemed backwards to me at first. However, it is useful
to know whether a given laptop supports a particular feature, and the category
listing at the bottom provides that nicely.)
>
> I would be curious to hear what others think about a wiki or similar
user-editable resource. The NUT HCL was never meant to fill that role, but a
completely free-form wiki might not be as useful as a custom web site. In either
case, we would need to have some decent spam protection. The NUT Trac instance
was hit fairly hard a while ago.
>
> Mike brings up an important point, in that NUT can only relay the
information that the UPS provides. If that information is incorrect, this sort
of repository could flag those variables or instant commands as being improperly
implemented by the UPS.
>
> Perhaps we could do something like those online UPS sizing wizards: ask the
user which features matter most, and show a filtered list of suggested UPS
models.
>
> The biggest issue in my mind is that UPS vendors frequently change things
out under the hood without changing the model name. Sometimes it is for the
better - Powercom shifted to a standard USB HID PDC interface (which was easier
to support in NUT). However, APC apparently dropped support for a lot of
variables from their HID PDC interface in favor of their proprietary Microlink
protocol (see apcupsd.com for more information).
>
> Maybe we can steer people away from bad UPS models or vendors, but in the
end, if I were purchasing a new UPS, I would want a no-questions-asked, open box
refund policy from the distributor.
>
> Alf: I like this idea, but I don't have the free time to help with this
for a while. (We still need to get the first Git-based source release out the
door.) Feel free to take this idea and run with it.
>
Just to let you know, I am looking at various wiki software, and aim to 
set up a wiki where we all can document the output from our different 
UPSes with different drivers, I think it will help people who are 
looking to buy UPS and want to use it with NUT.
I hope to have the wiki up during October, but cannot promise anything.

Regards
Alf