Saito, Hideki via llvm-dev
2016-Jun-24 07:45 UTC
[llvm-dev] Questions on LLVM vectorization diagnostics
Hi Dangeti, Ramakrishna, Adam, and Gerolf,>Yes this is an area that needs further improvement. We have some immediate plans to make these more useful. See the recent llvm-dev threads [1], [2].It takes a lot of dedicated effort to make vectorization report easier to understand by ordinary programmers (i.e., those who are not compiler writers). Having done that for ICC ourselves, we truly believe it was a good investment of resource. There are areas where both expert and non-expert of vectorizer development can equally contribute. That includes getting the source code location right and variable names (and memory references) printed at the source level representation. If anyone has data on how good LLVM is on these areas, we'd appreciate a pointer to such information. Otherwise, we'll study that when our development effort hit that area, report back, and contribute for improvement.>> In our analysis we never seen llvm trying to vectorize outer loops. Is this well known? Is outer loop vectorization implemented in LLVM >>as in GCC? (http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119 <http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119>) If not, is someone working on it? > >I heard various people mention this but I am not sure whether actual work is already taking place.We are currently working on introducing a next generation vectorizer design to LLVM, aiming to support OpenMP4.5 SIMD (i.e., including outer loop vectorization). I hope to be able to send in an RFC on the high level design document to LLVM-DEV next month. We are currently working on an RFC for "vectorizer's output" (IR, not diagnostic), to be discussed before the next gen design. As part of this next gen work, we'll also be working on improving diagnostics. Stay tuned.>actual work is already taking place.Yes, our hands are dirty with actual coding work to ensure that the high level design makes sense. :) Thanks, Hideki Saito (hideki dot saito at intel dot com) Technical Lead of Vectorizer Development Intel Compiler and Languages ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 3 Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 10:45:28 -0700 From: Adam Nemet via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> To: Dangeti Tharun kumar <cs15mtech11002 at iith.ac.in> Cc: llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org, Santanu Das <cs15mtech11018 at iith.ac.in> Subject: Re: [llvm-dev] Questions on LLVM vectorization diagnostics Message-ID: <B6F42D93-F676-4CB1-8413-A37A07490A55 at apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi Dangeti,> On Jun 23, 2016, at 8:20 AM, Dangeti Tharun kumar via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: > > Dear LLVM Community, > > I am D Tharun Kumar, masters student at Indian Institute of Technology Hyderabad, working in a team to improve current vectorizer in LLVM. As an initial study, we are studying various benchmarks to analyze and compare vectorizing capabilities of LLVM, GCC and ICC. We found that vectorization remarks given by LLVM are vague and brief, comparatively GCC and ICC are giving detailed diagnostics.Yes this is an area that needs further improvement. We have some immediate plans to make these more useful. See the recent llvm-dev threads [1], [2].> I am interested to know why the LLVM diagnostics are brief and not intuitive (making them less helpful)?I think it’s just lack of work or weakness in the analyses to provide more detailed information. It would be good to file bugs for specific cases where we fall behind.> In our analysis we never seen llvm trying to vectorize outer loops. Is this well known? Is outer loop vectorization implemented in LLVM as in GCC? (http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119 <http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119>) If not, is someone working on it?I heard various people mention this but I am not sure whether actual work is already taking place.> On the TSVC benchmark suite, out of a total of 151 loops, LLVM, GCC and ICC vectorized 70, 82 and 112 loops respectively. Is the cause for lag of LLVM the inability of LLVM’s vectorizer, or are there any (enabling) optimization passes running before GCC’s vectorizer that are helping GCC perform better?I don’t know about the GCC but I’ve seen ICC perform loop transformation more aggressively that can increase the coverage for loop vectorization. ICC performs Loop Distribution/Fusion/Interchange, etc by default at their highest optimization level. We have some of these passes (distribution, interchange) but not on by default yet. Arguably, there is also some difference between focus areas for these compilers. I think that ICC has a more HPC focus than LLVM or GCC. We have Polly which is geared toward more the HPC use cases.> Loop peeling to enhance vectorization is present in GCC and ICC, but, the LLVM remarks don’t say anything about alignment. Does LLVM has this functionality and the vectorizer doesn’t remark about it, or it doesn’t it have the functionality at all?We don’t have it.> Finally, we appreciate suggestions and directions for improving the vectorization framework of LLVM.This is a pretty active area. Probably reading up on recent llvm-dev discussion in this area would be helpful to you.> I would also like to know if anyone worked or is working on improving vectorization remarks.Yes we are. If you’re interested working on this area it would be good to coordinate. Adam> > Regards, > > Dangeti Tharun kumar > M.TECH Computer Science > IIT Hyderabad > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev[1] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.compilers.llvm.devel/98334 [2] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.compilers.llvm.devel/99126
Gerolf Hoflehner via llvm-dev
2016-Aug-25 00:37 UTC
[llvm-dev] Questions on LLVM vectorization diagnostics
Has there been a follow up? I’m very interested in specific examples underlying the key design decisions. Specifically I expect that you have examples that have a x% speed-up with ICC vs clang because of XYZ in your design. Similar if you have examples for better diagnostics if probably makes sense to share them. Thanks Gerolf> On Jun 24, 2016, at 12:45 AM, Saito, Hideki via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: > > > Hi Dangeti, Ramakrishna, Adam, and Gerolf, > >> Yes this is an area that needs further improvement. We have some immediate plans to make these more useful. See the recent llvm-dev threads [1], [2]. > > It takes a lot of dedicated effort to make vectorization report easier to understand by ordinary programmers > (i.e., those who are not compiler writers). Having done that for ICC ourselves, we truly believe it was a good > investment of resource. There are areas where both expert and non-expert of vectorizer development > can equally contribute. That includes getting the source code location right and variable names (and memory > references) printed at the source level representation. If anyone has data on how good LLVM is on these > areas, we'd appreciate a pointer to such information. Otherwise, we'll study that when our development > effort hit that area, report back, and contribute for improvement. > >>> In our analysis we never seen llvm trying to vectorize outer loops. Is this well known? Is outer loop vectorization implemented in LLVM >>> as in GCC? (http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119 <http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119>) If not, is someone working on it? >> >> I heard various people mention this but I am not sure whether actual work is already taking place. > > We are currently working on introducing a next generation vectorizer design to LLVM, aiming to support OpenMP4.5 SIMD > (i.e., including outer loop vectorization). I hope to be able to send in an RFC on the high level design document to LLVM-DEV > next month. We are currently working on an RFC for "vectorizer's output" (IR, not diagnostic), to be discussed before the next > gen design. As part of this next gen work, we'll also be working on improving diagnostics. Stay tuned. > >> actual work is already taking place. > > Yes, our hands are dirty with actual coding work to ensure that the high level design makes sense. :) > > Thanks, > Hideki Saito (hideki dot saito at intel dot com) > Technical Lead of Vectorizer Development > Intel Compiler and Languages > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 10:45:28 -0700 > From: Adam Nemet via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> > To: Dangeti Tharun kumar <cs15mtech11002 at iith.ac.in> > Cc: llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org, Santanu Das <cs15mtech11018 at iith.ac.in> > Subject: Re: [llvm-dev] Questions on LLVM vectorization diagnostics > Message-ID: <B6F42D93-F676-4CB1-8413-A37A07490A55 at apple.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Dangeti, > >> On Jun 23, 2016, at 8:20 AM, Dangeti Tharun kumar via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: >> >> Dear LLVM Community, >> >> I am D Tharun Kumar, masters student at Indian Institute of Technology Hyderabad, working in a team to improve current vectorizer in LLVM. As an initial study, we are studying various benchmarks to analyze and compare vectorizing capabilities of LLVM, GCC and ICC. We found that vectorization remarks given by LLVM are vague and brief, comparatively GCC and ICC are giving detailed diagnostics. > > Yes this is an area that needs further improvement. We have some immediate plans to make these more useful. See the recent llvm-dev threads [1], [2]. >> I am interested to know why the LLVM diagnostics are brief and not intuitive (making them less helpful)? > I think it’s just lack of work or weakness in the analyses to provide more detailed information. It would be good to file bugs for specific cases where we fall behind. >> In our analysis we never seen llvm trying to vectorize outer loops. Is this well known? Is outer loop vectorization implemented in LLVM as in GCC? (http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119 <http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119>) If not, is someone working on it? > > I heard various people mention this but I am not sure whether actual work is already taking place. > >> On the TSVC benchmark suite, out of a total of 151 loops, LLVM, GCC and ICC vectorized 70, 82 and 112 loops respectively. Is the cause for lag of LLVM the inability of LLVM’s vectorizer, or are there any (enabling) optimization passes running before GCC’s vectorizer that are helping GCC perform better? > > I don’t know about the GCC but I’ve seen ICC perform loop transformation more aggressively that can increase the coverage for loop vectorization. ICC performs Loop Distribution/Fusion/Interchange, etc by default at their highest optimization level. We have some of these passes (distribution, interchange) but not on by default yet. > > Arguably, there is also some difference between focus areas for these compilers. I think that ICC has a more HPC focus than LLVM or GCC. We have Polly which is geared toward more the HPC use cases. > >> Loop peeling to enhance vectorization is present in GCC and ICC, but, the LLVM remarks don’t say anything about alignment. Does LLVM has this functionality and the vectorizer doesn’t remark about it, or it doesn’t it have the functionality at all? > We don’t have it. > >> Finally, we appreciate suggestions and directions for improving the vectorization framework of LLVM. > > This is a pretty active area. Probably reading up on recent llvm-dev discussion in this area would be helpful to you. > >> I would also like to know if anyone worked or is working on improving vectorization remarks. > > Yes we are. If you’re interested working on this area it would be good to coordinate. > > Adam > >> >> Regards, >> >> Dangeti Tharun kumar >> M.TECH Computer Science >> IIT Hyderabad >> _______________________________________________ >> LLVM Developers mailing list >> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org >> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev > > > [1] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.compilers.llvm.devel/98334 > [2] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.compilers.llvm.devel/99126 > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
Saito, Hideki via llvm-dev
2016-Aug-25 04:46 UTC
[llvm-dev] Questions on LLVM vectorization diagnostics
Hi, Gerolf. We've been a bit quiet for some time. After listening to feedback on the project internally and externally, we decided to take a more generally accepted community development model ---- building up through a collection of small incremental changes ---- than trying to make a big step forward. That change of course took a bit of time, but we are getting close to the first NFC patch on which we hope to incrementally build up new functionalities. Within a few weeks, we plan to send in the first of the series of RFCs, which is soon to be followed by the NFC patch for review as the first step. We are also making a submission for a talk about this project, plus a submission for a BoF about vector masking, at 2016 LLVM DEV Meeting. I hope our submissions will be accepted. Looking forward to have great discussions on the mailing list, patch review process, and in person.>I’m very interested in specific examples underlying the key design decisions.Since the two paragraphs above aren't too useful in answering your questions, let me talk about one particular example: auto-vectorization of outer loops. I do not know whether any readers here have noticed: ICC auto-vectorizer works inner to outer. If the inner loop is auto-vectorized, outer loop is no longer a vectorization candidate. Currently, it does not have an ability to compare the benefit of vectorizing outer loop and the benefit of vectorizing inner loop(s) ---- people in academia, here's a paper opportunity. :) Often times, outer loop vectorization requires a massaging of inner loop control flow --- and ICC Vectorizer does such massaging on its underlying IR level ---- just like many of you who have implemented OpenMP SIMD, OpenCL and other explicit vector programming model. This is okay when you know which loop to vectorize ahead of time. Not so nice if you are trying to decide between inner loop vectorization or outer loop vectorization. As such, one of the key design consideration was being able to "pseudo-massage inner loop control flow" w/o modifying the underlying IR, until the cost model decides where to vectorize. This, by itself, is a rather ambitious project, many people advised us to go many incremental small steps, and we listened. That has led to the small NFC patch mentioned above. I hope this revelation is interesting enough for many of you to stay tuned for our further development. I probably spoke too much about ICC vectorizer internal. One of the future RFCs (it'll certainly take some time to get to that point through many incremental steps) will be talking about the inner versus outer auto-vectorization. We hope to get there sooner than later. --------------------------- Now, I have one question. Suppose we'd like to split the vectorization decision as an Analysis pass and vectorization transformation as a Transformation pass. Is it acceptable if an Analysis pass creates new Instructions and new BasicBlocks, keep them unreachable from the underlying IR of the Function/Loop, and pass those to the Transformation pass as part of Analysis's internal data? We've been operating under the assumption that such Analysis pass behavior is unacceptable. Please let us know if this is a generally acceptable way for an Analysis pass to work ---- this might make our development move quicker. Why we'd want to do this? As mentioned above, we need to "pseudo-massage inner loop control flow" before deciding where/whether to vectorize. Hope someone can give us a clear answer. Thanks, Hideki Saito Intel Compilers and Languages -----Original Message----- From: ghoflehner at apple.com [mailto:ghoflehner at apple.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2016 5:38 PM To: Saito, Hideki <hideki.saito at intel.com> Cc: llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org; Dangeti Tharun kumar <cs15mtech11002 at iith.ac.in>; Santanu Das <cs15mtech11018 at iith.ac.in> Subject: Re: [llvm-dev] Questions on LLVM vectorization diagnostics Has there been a follow up? I’m very interested in specific examples underlying the key design decisions. Specifically I expect that you have examples that have a x% speed-up with ICC vs clang because of XYZ in your design. Similar if you have examples for better diagnostics if probably makes sense to share them. Thanks Gerolf> On Jun 24, 2016, at 12:45 AM, Saito, Hideki via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: > > > Hi Dangeti, Ramakrishna, Adam, and Gerolf, > >> Yes this is an area that needs further improvement. We have some immediate plans to make these more useful. See the recent llvm-dev threads [1], [2]. > > It takes a lot of dedicated effort to make vectorization report easier > to understand by ordinary programmers (i.e., those who are not > compiler writers). Having done that for ICC ourselves, we truly > believe it was a good investment of resource. There are areas where > both expert and non-expert of vectorizer development can equally > contribute. That includes getting the source code location right and > variable names (and memory > references) printed at the source level representation. If anyone has > data on how good LLVM is on these areas, we'd appreciate a pointer to > such information. Otherwise, we'll study that when our development effort hit that area, report back, and contribute for improvement. > >>> In our analysis we never seen llvm trying to vectorize outer loops. >>> Is this well known? Is outer loop vectorization implemented in LLVM as in GCC? (http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119 <http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119>) If not, is someone working on it? >> >> I heard various people mention this but I am not sure whether actual work is already taking place. > > We are currently working on introducing a next generation vectorizer > design to LLVM, aiming to support OpenMP4.5 SIMD (i.e., including > outer loop vectorization). I hope to be able to send in an RFC on the > high level design document to LLVM-DEV next month. We are currently working on an RFC for "vectorizer's output" (IR, not diagnostic), to be discussed before the next gen design. As part of this next gen work, we'll also be working on improving diagnostics. Stay tuned. > >> actual work is already taking place. > > Yes, our hands are dirty with actual coding work to ensure that the > high level design makes sense. :) > > Thanks, > Hideki Saito (hideki dot saito at intel dot com) Technical Lead of > Vectorizer Development Intel Compiler and Languages > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > ------- > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2016 10:45:28 -0700 > From: Adam Nemet via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> > To: Dangeti Tharun kumar <cs15mtech11002 at iith.ac.in> > Cc: llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org, Santanu Das <cs15mtech11018 at iith.ac.in> > Subject: Re: [llvm-dev] Questions on LLVM vectorization diagnostics > Message-ID: <B6F42D93-F676-4CB1-8413-A37A07490A55 at apple.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" > > Hi Dangeti, > >> On Jun 23, 2016, at 8:20 AM, Dangeti Tharun kumar via llvm-dev <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote: >> >> Dear LLVM Community, >> >> I am D Tharun Kumar, masters student at Indian Institute of Technology Hyderabad, working in a team to improve current vectorizer in LLVM. As an initial study, we are studying various benchmarks to analyze and compare vectorizing capabilities of LLVM, GCC and ICC. We found that vectorization remarks given by LLVM are vague and brief, comparatively GCC and ICC are giving detailed diagnostics. > > Yes this is an area that needs further improvement. We have some immediate plans to make these more useful. See the recent llvm-dev threads [1], [2]. >> I am interested to know why the LLVM diagnostics are brief and not intuitive (making them less helpful)? > I think it’s just lack of work or weakness in the analyses to provide more detailed information. It would be good to file bugs for specific cases where we fall behind. >> In our analysis we never seen llvm trying to vectorize outer loops. Is this well known? Is outer loop vectorization implemented in LLVM as in GCC? (http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119 <http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=1454119>) If not, is someone working on it? > > I heard various people mention this but I am not sure whether actual work is already taking place. > >> On the TSVC benchmark suite, out of a total of 151 loops, LLVM, GCC and ICC vectorized 70, 82 and 112 loops respectively. Is the cause for lag of LLVM the inability of LLVM’s vectorizer, or are there any (enabling) optimization passes running before GCC’s vectorizer that are helping GCC perform better? > > I don’t know about the GCC but I’ve seen ICC perform loop transformation more aggressively that can increase the coverage for loop vectorization. ICC performs Loop Distribution/Fusion/Interchange, etc by default at their highest optimization level. We have some of these passes (distribution, interchange) but not on by default yet. > > Arguably, there is also some difference between focus areas for these compilers. I think that ICC has a more HPC focus than LLVM or GCC. We have Polly which is geared toward more the HPC use cases. > >> Loop peeling to enhance vectorization is present in GCC and ICC, but, the LLVM remarks don’t say anything about alignment. Does LLVM has this functionality and the vectorizer doesn’t remark about it, or it doesn’t it have the functionality at all? > We don’t have it. > >> Finally, we appreciate suggestions and directions for improving the vectorization framework of LLVM. > > This is a pretty active area. Probably reading up on recent llvm-dev discussion in this area would be helpful to you. > >> I would also like to know if anyone worked or is working on improving vectorization remarks. > > Yes we are. If you’re interested working on this area it would be good to coordinate. > > Adam > >> >> Regards, >> >> Dangeti Tharun kumar >> M.TECH Computer Science >> IIT Hyderabad >> _______________________________________________ >> LLVM Developers mailing list >> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org >> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev > > > [1] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.compilers.llvm.devel/98334 > [2] http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.compilers.llvm.devel/99126 > _______________________________________________ > LLVM Developers mailing list > llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org > http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev