llvm dev - Mar 2016 - We really need more community involvement with GSoC

Note : I do not mean to compare or criticize any organization. This is
based on my experience.

Dear Community,

I have subscribed llvm-dev list for last 6 months and I follow most of the
thread when it makes sense to me. I have observed that some times some
mails do not get any kind of response. Mostly novice students and some one
trying to use LLVM in the research have many questions.
I respect all community members and I understand that working for top
companies or colleges keep them very busy. So when I go on IRC same things
happens ( I keep my self up late night to sync with timezone so I get many
people to ask on IRC).
 Personally if I stretch my self and read some older mail chains, I am able
to get answers to my questions 80% of time, but some time I just get stuck
and some times to understand output and "why it has happen so" a
novice may
require help from you people.

I have just one suggestion that is not particular to GSoC but it applies in
general. Actually Drupal.org uses this idea. See this
https://www.drupal.org/core-office-hours
Every Monday and Wednesday they keep a session on IRC  (just textual chat)
dedicated to novice student may be an hour long or so. To keep main channel
undisturbed we may have a separate channel. (or slack.com )  The time
chosen for both days are very different so that they can cover may time
zones. 2 or 3 experienced community members attends this session and
answers to the each kind of questions from participant. This will help
students and researchers very much. Specially if they are not able to
progress by their own.
I have been benefited from this on Drupal. LLVM is more complex code base
than Drupal. And I believe that your 60 minutes may save their days.


Sincerely,
Vivek
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2016-03-18 13:47 GMT+01:00 vivek pandya via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>:
> Note : I do not mean to compare or criticize any organization. This is
> based on my experience.
>
> Dear Community,
>
> I have subscribed llvm-dev list for last 6 months and I follow most of the
> thread when it makes sense to me. I have observed that some times some
> mails do not get any kind of response. Mostly novice students and some one
> trying to use LLVM in the research have many questions.
> I respect all community members and I understand that working for top
> companies or colleges keep them very busy. So when I go on IRC same things
> happens ( I keep my self up late night to sync with timezone so I get many
> people to ask on IRC).
>  Personally if I stretch my self and read some older mail chains, I am
> able to get answers to my questions 80% of time, but some time I just get
> stuck and some times to understand output and "why it has happen
so" a
> novice may require help from you people.
>
> I have just one suggestion that is not particular to GSoC but it applies
> in general. Actually Drupal.org uses this idea. See this
> https://www.drupal.org/core-office-hours
> Every Monday and Wednesday they keep a session on IRC  (just textual chat)
> dedicated to novice student may be an hour long or so. To keep main channel
> undisturbed we may have a separate channel. (or slack.com )  The time
> chosen for both days are very different so that they can cover may time
> zones. 2 or 3 experienced community members attends this session and
> answers to the each kind of questions from participant. This will help
> students and researchers very much. Specially if they are not able to
> progress by their own.
> I have been benefited from this on Drupal. LLVM is more complex code base
> than Drupal. And I believe that your 60 minutes may save their days.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Vivek
>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
>
That seems to be great idea.
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I work for one of those "top companies", but LLVM is only one of the
back-ends I'm working with so I have only pretty narrow knowledge of it
(but ok knowledge of compilers in general, I hope).

I'm trying to post easy to understand answers to those beginner questions
when I have time (there was one yesterday, about constant evaluating things
like sqrt() in the front end).

One concern I have is that although these basic questions often have no
answers on the mailing list, any number of people might well have replied
to them privately, in an effort to both be helpful to the questioner, and
also to "maintain the signal to noise ratio" of the mailing list.

Of course I don't know if this is really happening or not, but if it is
then the wasted duplication of effort is probably worse than a few extra
messages on the list. Which is why I copy the list as well.

The "office hours" idea would definitely help with all this, if
beginners
can in fact be encouraged to use it.

I'd probably use it myself, as I'm a novice to many aspects of LLVM.



On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:47 PM, vivek pandya via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> Note : I do not mean to compare or criticize any organization. This is
> based on my experience.
>
> Dear Community,
>
> I have subscribed llvm-dev list for last 6 months and I follow most of the
> thread when it makes sense to me. I have observed that some times some
> mails do not get any kind of response. Mostly novice students and some one
> trying to use LLVM in the research have many questions.
> I respect all community members and I understand that working for top
> companies or colleges keep them very busy. So when I go on IRC same things
> happens ( I keep my self up late night to sync with timezone so I get many
> people to ask on IRC).
>  Personally if I stretch my self and read some older mail chains, I am
> able to get answers to my questions 80% of time, but some time I just get
> stuck and some times to understand output and "why it has happen
so" a
> novice may require help from you people.
>
> I have just one suggestion that is not particular to GSoC but it applies
> in general. Actually Drupal.org uses this idea. See this
> https://www.drupal.org/core-office-hours
> Every Monday and Wednesday they keep a session on IRC  (just textual chat)
> dedicated to novice student may be an hour long or so. To keep main channel
> undisturbed we may have a separate channel. (or slack.com )  The time
> chosen for both days are very different so that they can cover may time
> zones. 2 or 3 experienced community members attends this session and
> answers to the each kind of questions from participant. This will help
> students and researchers very much. Specially if they are not able to
> progress by their own.
> I have been benefited from this on Drupal. LLVM is more complex code base
> than Drupal. And I believe that your 60 minutes may save their days.
>
>
> Sincerely,
> Vivek
>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
>
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I think the idea of dedicated "newbie hour - no question is too basic"
drop
in sessions is fantastic. +1 for that.

On Sat, 19 Mar 2016 at 11:26 Bruce Hoult via llvm-dev <
llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
> I work for one of those "top companies", but LLVM is only one of
the
> back-ends I'm working with so I have only pretty narrow knowledge of it
> (but ok knowledge of compilers in general, I hope).
>
> I'm trying to post easy to understand answers to those beginner
questions
> when I have time (there was one yesterday, about constant evaluating things
> like sqrt() in the front end).
>
> One concern I have is that although these basic questions often have no
> answers on the mailing list, any number of people might well have replied
> to them privately, in an effort to both be helpful to the questioner, and
> also to "maintain the signal to noise ratio" of the mailing list.
>
> Of course I don't know if this is really happening or not, but if it is
> then the wasted duplication of effort is probably worse than a few extra
> messages on the list. Which is why I copy the list as well.
>
> The "office hours" idea would definitely help with all this, if
beginners
> can in fact be encouraged to use it.
>
> I'd probably use it myself, as I'm a novice to many aspects of
LLVM.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:47 PM, vivek pandya via llvm-dev <
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org> wrote:
>
>> Note : I do not mean to compare or criticize any organization. This is
>> based on my experience.
>>
>> Dear Community,
>>
>> I have subscribed llvm-dev list for last 6 months and I follow most of
>> the thread when it makes sense to me. I have observed that some times
some
>> mails do not get any kind of response. Mostly novice students and some
one
>> trying to use LLVM in the research have many questions.
>> I respect all community members and I understand that working for top
>> companies or colleges keep them very busy. So when I go on IRC same
things
>> happens ( I keep my self up late night to sync with timezone so I get
many
>> people to ask on IRC).
>>  Personally if I stretch my self and read some older mail chains, I am
>> able to get answers to my questions 80% of time, but some time I just
get
>> stuck and some times to understand output and "why it has happen
so" a
>> novice may require help from you people.
>>
>> I have just one suggestion that is not particular to GSoC but it
applies
>> in general. Actually Drupal.org uses this idea. See this
>> https://www.drupal.org/core-office-hours
>> Every Monday and Wednesday they keep a session on IRC  (just textual
>> chat) dedicated to novice student may be an hour long or so. To keep
main
>> channel undisturbed we may have a separate channel. (or slack.com ) 
The
>> time chosen for both days are very different so that they can cover may
>> time zones. 2 or 3 experienced community members attends this session
and
>> answers to the each kind of questions from participant. This will help
>> students and researchers very much. Specially if they are not able to
>> progress by their own.
>> I have been benefited from this on Drupal. LLVM is more complex code
base
>> than Drupal. And I believe that your 60 minutes may save their days.
>>
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Vivek
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> LLVM Developers mailing list
>> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
>> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>>
>>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
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On 3/19/16 6:26 AM, Bruce Hoult via llvm-dev wrote:
> I work for one of those "top companies", but LLVM is only one of
the
> back-ends I'm working with so I have only pretty narrow knowledge of 
> it (but ok knowledge of compilers in general, I hope).
>
> I'm trying to post easy to understand answers to those beginner 
> questions when I have time (there was one yesterday, about constant 
> evaluating things like sqrt() in the front end).
>
> One concern I have is that although these basic questions often have 
> no answers on the mailing list, any number of people might well have 
> replied to them privately, in an effort to both be helpful to the 
> questioner, and also to "maintain the signal to noise ratio" of
the
> mailing list.
When I reply to a question, I reply to the list.  That ensures that a) 
everyone knows if a question has been answered and b) it allows others 
with a similar question to see the answer.

On a side note, I think our FAQ may need some updating; we've gotten 
similar questions over the years which I should have added to a FAQ but 
(to date) have not.

Regards,

John Criswell
>
> Of course I don't know if this is really happening or not, but if it 
> is then the wasted duplication of effort is probably worse than a few 
> extra messages on the list. Which is why I copy the list as well.
>
> The "office hours" idea would definitely help with all this, if 
> beginners can in fact be encouraged to use it.
>
> I'd probably use it myself, as I'm a novice to many aspects of
LLVM.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Mar 18, 2016 at 3:47 PM, vivek pandya via llvm-dev 
> <llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at
lists.llvm.org>> wrote:
>
>     Note : I do not mean to compare or criticize any organization.
>     This is based on my experience.
>
>     Dear Community,
>
>     I have subscribed llvm-dev list for last 6 months and I follow
>     most of the thread when it makes sense to me. I have observed that
>     some times some mails do not get any kind of response. Mostly
>     novice students and some one trying to use LLVM in the research
>     have many questions.
>     I respect all community members and I understand that working for
>     top companies or colleges keep them very busy. So when I go on IRC
>     same things happens ( I keep my self up late night to sync with
>     timezone so I get many people to ask on IRC).
>      Personally if I stretch my self and read some older mail chains,
>     I am able to get answers to my questions 80% of time, but some
>     time I just get stuck and some times to understand output and "why
>     it has happen so" a novice may require help from you people.
>
>     I have just one suggestion that is not particular to GSoC but it
>     applies in general. Actually Drupal.org uses this idea. See this
>     https://www.drupal.org/core-office-hours
>     Every Monday and Wednesday they keep a session on IRC  (just
>     textual chat) dedicated to novice student may be an hour long or
>     so. To keep main channel undisturbed we may have a separate
>     channel. (or slack.com <http://slack.com> )  The time chosen for
>     both days are very different so that they can cover may time
>     zones. 2 or 3 experienced community members attends this session
>     and answers to the each kind of questions from participant. This
>     will help students and researchers very much. Specially if they
>     are not able to progress by their own.
>     I have been benefited from this on Drupal. LLVM is more complex
>     code base than Drupal. And I believe that your 60 minutes may save
>     their days.
>
>
>     Sincerely,
>     Vivek
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     LLVM Developers mailing list
>     llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org <mailto:llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org>
>     http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> LLVM Developers mailing list
> llvm-dev at lists.llvm.org
> http://lists.llvm.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/llvm-dev

-- 
John Criswell
Assistant Professor
Department of Computer Science, University of Rochester
http://www.cs.rochester.edu/u/criswell

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