Oh, I almost forgot... If you're going under compulsory licensing: 1) Listener requests cannot be honored, otherwise you will end up labeled an "interactive service" along with Audiogalaxy Rhapsody & the like. Which means more & more expensive royalties. 2) You cannot play more than 3 songs of the same album in any 3 hour period (no more than 2 in a row). Nor can you play more than 4 songs of the same artist in any 3 hour period (no more than 3 in a row). 3) You may not make available a complete list of the artists, songs, or albums your stream plays. 4) You may not make a list available of upcoming songs referenced by order or by time they will be played.>===== Original Message From Mark Lehrer <mark@knm.org> ====>> What are the current legalities in relation to non commercial music >> streams, or more accurately put non profit streams, and is this >> currently being seriously policed? > >Yes it is being seriously policed. This is controlled by copyright >law; there are three companies that basically control all music >copyrights; ASCAP, BMI, and SESAC. From what I understand, you will >need a "compulsory" license from each, and they now have additional >royalty payments and reporting requirements for the songs you play. >jwz had a good write-up of this (before the big royalty agreement >though). It's a must-read: >http://www.dnalounge.com/backstage/webcasting.html > >The only way I have found around this is to play music that is >"legally tradeable", e.g. live phish, dead, metallica, etc who allow >you to share electronic copies. If you use their music this way, then >there can be no revenue of any kind; even a banner ad will get you in >trouble. > >It's painful. Basically it is designed to keep the hobbyists out. >Copyrights should be a lot shorter, and should never be allowed to be >owned by a corporation... works for hire should have different, and >even shorter, terms. > >Mark--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Ditto Scott - you nailed it !! But the DMCA actually sets rules on requests and processing them without being considered "interactive" - for instance the time frame allowed from when requests are made and then processed and actually air (minimum 60 minutes), to displaying your playlist - (can not be displayed public in the order of actual performance) basically as long as you never allow the listener to have pre-knowledge of, or "immediately or instantly influence" the order of your content/playlist then you are not necessarily "interactive" - In a nutshell - do YOU pre-program and control the broadcast or does the listener? - case in point "Spinner" is "Interactive" and a different licensing scheme - then you have many Shoutcaster/Live365 and Icecast/Ogg stations that have varying ways to automate their requests - and policies to maintain DMCA compliance - So do they fall under the auspices of "Interactive" ? Well they have not to my knowledge to this point? And precedent has been set at least since 1999 that the Recording/licensing entities have indeed excepted it and licensed broadcasters with "request" functions/features under a "Compulsorary" license ... Sadly for now however these rules will be changing due to the current deals made by both the larger Commercial and Terra Broadcasters as well as .EDU/Non-Comm.'s and for the remaining broadcasters, other than the current set CARP rate/terms or the SWA(Small Webcasters Act) - a broadcasters survivability is going to be based upon "Subscription" senario most likely. Of course your other alternative is to go total "Independent" artists with permissions and or produce all your own content. There is in fact however is a huge hole left and something that is being debated a little bit but sadly not acted upon, is that there is no license deal currently set for Small Hobbyist or Medium commercial broadcasters such as Live365 or even AudioRealm - and sadly again no one seems to be in a hurry or getting too excited about aggregating and or banding together to at least attempt negotiating a deal before it becomes too late - A few companies I know including our own have attempted it singularly but as a united group there seems to be a void - and THAT my friends is what will kill any future chances for a 200 listener station on a shoe string budget. Guess there is alway "Personal Casting"? Bryan Payne Spacial Audio Solutions 806-549-1085 www.spacialaudio.com www.audiorealm.com Confidentiality Note: The information contained in this email and document(s)attached are for the exclusive use of the addressee and may contain confidential, privileged and non-disclosable information. If the recipient of this email is not the addressee, such recipient is strictly prohibited from reading, photocopying, distribution or otherwise using this email or its contents in any way. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Scott Manley" <djsnm@djsnm.com> To: <icecast@xiph.org> Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2003 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [icecast] legalities of streaming <p>> Chris G (Moguta) wrote:> > Oh, I almost forgot... > > > > If you're going under compulsory licensing: > > > > 1) Listener requests cannot be honored, otherwise you will end uplabeled an> > "interactive service" along with Audiogalaxy Rhapsody & the like. Whichmeans> > more & more expensive royalties. > > > > 2) You cannot play more than 3 songs of the same album in any 3 hourperiod> > (no more than 2 in a row). Nor can you play more than 4 songs of thesame> > artist in any 3 hour period (no more than 3 in a row). > > > > 3) You may not make available a complete list of the artists, songs, oralbums> > your stream plays. > > > > 4) You may not make a list available of upcoming songs referenced byorder or> > by time they will be played. > > Ahh yes the details of the Vessel Hull Strengthening Act - the exact > rules are a bit more vague than this and are open to interpretation, > there's no legal precedent established yet. Rule 2 is commonly > interpreted different ways - for example Myplay.com always played it > legal but their legal advisors claimed that the 3-4 rule was - 3 songs > from a single artist/album if 2 are played consecutively or 4 from a > single artist album without consecutive plays. So there was no limit on > playing a single artist in a 3 hour period, as long as you kept changing > albums... > > anyway every organisation I've worked with has their own interpretation > of the rules. > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to'icecast-request@xiph.org'> containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered. >--- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
On 11 Jun 2003 at 21:44, Chris G (Moguta) wrote:> If you're going under compulsory licensing: > > 1) Listener requests cannot be honored, otherwise you will end up > labeled an "interactive service" along with Audiogalaxy Rhapsody & the > like. Which means more & more expensive royalties.Well, here in Germany I talked to the GEMA some time ago. And they said that "wishlists" (you play the songs most people like) is non- interactive. Only if everybody can decide on his own what he wants to hear next its interactive. That's their point of view. So I see the situation here is quite good :-)> 3) You may not make available a complete list of the artists, songs, > or albums your stream plays.Yes, you are not allowed to list them in advance, that's right. So that everybody can see when it will be played next, tune in at XXX o' clock and record your program for that one song. That's the point.> 4) You may not make a list available of upcoming songs referenced by > order or by time they will be played.Yes, but you could make up a "hitlist" that you can publish and make a "charts-show" on your radio. That's the only way to do it :-) --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Chris G (Moguta) wrote:> Oh, I almost forgot... > > If you're going under compulsory licensing: > > 1) Listener requests cannot be honored, otherwise you will end up labeled an > "interactive service" along with Audiogalaxy Rhapsody & the like. Which means > more & more expensive royalties. > > 2) You cannot play more than 3 songs of the same album in any 3 hour period > (no more than 2 in a row). Nor can you play more than 4 songs of the same > artist in any 3 hour period (no more than 3 in a row). > > 3) You may not make available a complete list of the artists, songs, or albums > your stream plays. > > 4) You may not make a list available of upcoming songs referenced by order or > by time they will be played.Ahh yes the details of the Vessel Hull Strengthening Act - the exact rules are a bit more vague than this and are open to interpretation, there's no legal precedent established yet. Rule 2 is commonly interpreted different ways - for example Myplay.com always played it legal but their legal advisors claimed that the 3-4 rule was - 3 songs from a single artist/album if 2 are played consecutively or 4 from a single artist album without consecutive plays. So there was no limit on playing a single artist in a 3 hour period, as long as you kept changing albums... anyway every organisation I've worked with has their own interpretation of the rules. --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.