CentOS - Feb 2018 - a few simple questions about upgrading an "official" centos 7 release

On Thu, 22 Feb 2018, hw wrote:
> Robert P. J. Day wrote:
  ... snip ...
> >    oh, i appreciate the need for caution; on the other hand, it
> > always struck me that the training room is the *ideal* place for
> > students to experiment with things they're too nervous or unsure
> > of to try back at the office. this is typically why, when i'm
> > teaching, i save friday afternoon for trying things that are
> > typically not covered by standard courseware.
> >
> >    so as long as one delivers the proper caution, i see no problem
> > with something like, "ok, you might never have to do this at your
> > site, but just in case you ever need to upgrade your kernel, let's
> > try it and see what happens." so if the need ever arises, at
least
> > they can say they've done it once and know what the end result is
> > supposed to be.
>
> The students you need to teach things like this are the ones that
> will never become good admins.
  uh, that's kind of a condescending attitude to take towards students
who simply want to learn. are you this way with everyone?

rday

Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> On Thu, 22 Feb 2018, hw wrote:
> 
>> Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> 
>    ... snip ...
> 
>>>     oh, i appreciate the need for caution; on the other hand, it
>>> always struck me that the training room is the *ideal* place for
>>> students to experiment with things they're too nervous or
unsure
>>> of to try back at the office. this is typically why, when i'm
>>> teaching, i save friday afternoon for trying things that are
>>> typically not covered by standard courseware.
>>>
>>>     so as long as one delivers the proper caution, i see no problem
>>> with something like, "ok, you might never have to do this at
your
>>> site, but just in case you ever need to upgrade your kernel,
let's
>>> try it and see what happens." so if the need ever arises, at
least
>>> they can say they've done it once and know what the end result
is
>>> supposed to be.
>>
>> The students you need to teach things like this are the ones that
>> will never become good admins.
> 
>    uh, that's kind of a condescending attitude to take towards students
> who simply want to learn. are you this way with everyone?
Yes, and there?s nothing condescending about this.  A student who is too
chicken to try out basic things, be it within dedicated testing environments
or, if need be, otherwise, will not become a good admin and is probably
not a person well suited to bearing the responsibility that will be bestowed
upon them, partly due to a lack of good judgement.

I think that is something you should teach your students --- in the hope that
their attitude may change.  Isn?t that your intention to begin with?

> On Feb 22, 2018, at 9:34 AM, hw <hw at gc-24.de> wrote:
> 
> Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>> On Thu, 22 Feb 2018, hw wrote:
>>> 
>>> The students you need to teach things like this are the ones that
>>> will never become good admins.
>>   uh, that's kind of a condescending attitude to take towards
students
>> who simply want to learn. are you this way with everyone?
> 
> Yes, and there?s nothing condescending about this.  A student who is too
> chicken to try out basic things, be it within dedicated testing
environments
> or, if need be, otherwise, will not become a good admin and is probably
> not a person well suited to bearing the responsibility that will be
bestowed
> upon them, partly due to a lack of good judgement.
I was going to let this go, as we?re getting farther and farther from CentOS,
but this has been bothering me. I don?t think you?ve evaluated how the attitude
expressed in your statement would tend to encourage hotshots who dive in and
make changes without knowing enough, and would tend to weed out inexperienced
potential sysadmins who have any degree of caution. Confidence comes from
knowledge, knowledge comes from practice? and there are a lot of potential
sysadmins from non-standard backgrounds who have the potential to be great at
the work, but need extra encouragement in the beginning, with a safe place to
learn and make mistakes.

If my past teachers and mentors had had the attitude you expressed there, I?d
never have gotten into systems administration?and I can tell that I?m going to
be a good sysadmin, so that would have been a shame. (I?ve been in systems
administration for a grand total of about five months, after over a decade in
related IT work.)

Liza Furr