Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears!
Or, in this case, your eyes.
It has become a problem I've noticed over and over again, that we tend
to think the mailing list is some sort of forum, used to post whatever
your hearts desire. This list, not unlike any other mailing list, has
a purpose. A focus if you will. Hopefully this 'document' will point
out some key things we need to change to help this list remain friendly
and helpful, not to mention, a vital asset to the Asterisk community.
And now, for the Asterisk-Users dial plan:
[Etiquette]
Exten => s,1, Posts to the Asterisk-Users list should be concise, and
on-topic. Remember, the topic is ASTERISK, not "Provider
X doesn't answer email", or "Provider Y doesn't have rates
listed
on their website." Gripes of this nature, and discussion of
businesses relating to Asterisk should be handled on the
Asterisk-Biz list, or in the case of customer service, with the
person/provider in question.
Exten => s,2, Everyone was new at some point. Let's try to keep our
cool with new members of the asterisk community. While
yes, there needs to be some research done before asking
questions, Let's point them in the right direction, and do so
politely. A general rule of thumb to use is to reply to 'newbie'
questions as if the person asking the question was a guest in
your home.
Exten => s,3, Since there are lot of users who deal with the community
from the workplace, let's watch our language on the list.
Not to be a sort of cyber-nanny, but most workplace ethics frown
deeply on vulgarity in *ANY* form.
Exten => s,4, Keep flames, criticism, and cruelty to yourself. If you
don't like the way a question has been answered, simply
post an alternative method. No need to degrade someone or their
methods simply because you do not agree.
Exten => s,5, If you have found a bug, feel free to discuss it here to
confirm the issue, but remember, if you want action, you
will need to post it to the bug tracker at
http://bugs.digium.com, and be available for further testing if
necessary. Also, to keep non-bugs out of
the tracker, try to find someone on #asterisk-bugs on IRC
before posting the bug to confirm it.
Exten => s,6, If you find something useful to the community, and it
directly relates to Asterisk, share it! Feel free to post
here or on the Wiki
(http://www.voip-info.org/Wiki-Asterisk).
Exten => s,7, Not everyone will abide by the etiquette, and there's
nothing we can do about that; But to avoid a flare-up, try
not to take it personally, or better yet, simply don't respond to
it.
Exten => s,8,Goto(Etiquette,s,1)
If we can all agree on this, this list will continue to be a useful tool
for the community.
Please note - this was not specific to anyone, nor should it be taken
personally by anyone. This is just a guideline to keeping the peace,
and increase our productivity as a community.
**** Remember: We are a COMMUNITY. ****
Thank you for your time, and please, if you must flame me for this, do
it off-list.
---
with our deepest love,
twisted & bkw
Exten => h,1,HangUp()
Sorry for the formatting everyone.. my mailer blows chunks... it looked ok before I sent it ;) On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 22:03, twisted wrote:> Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears! > > Or, in this case, your eyes. > > It has become a problem I've noticed over and over again, that we tend > to think the mailing list is some sort of forum, used to post whatever > your hearts desire. This list, not unlike any other mailing list, has > a purpose. A focus if you will. Hopefully this 'document' will point > out some key things we need to change to help this list remain friendly > and helpful, not to mention, a vital asset to the Asterisk community. > > And now, for the Asterisk-Users dial plan: > > [Etiquette] > > Exten => s,1, Posts to the Asterisk-Users list should be concise, and > on-topic. Remember, the topic is ASTERISK, not "Provider > X doesn't answer email", or "Provider Y doesn't have rates listed > on their website." Gripes of this nature, and discussion of > businesses relating to Asterisk should be handled on the > Asterisk-Biz list, or in the case of customer service, with the > person/provider in question. > > Exten => s,2, Everyone was new at some point. Let's try to keep our > cool with new members of the asterisk community. While > yes, there needs to be some research done before asking > questions, Let's point them in the right direction, and do so > politely. A general rule of thumb to use is to reply to 'newbie' > questions as if the person asking the question was a guest in > your home. > > Exten => s,3, Since there are lot of users who deal with the community > from the workplace, let's watch our language on the list. > Not to be a sort of cyber-nanny, but most workplace ethics frown > deeply on vulgarity in *ANY* form. > > Exten => s,4, Keep flames, criticism, and cruelty to yourself. If you > don't like the way a question has been answered, simply > post an alternative method. No need to degrade someone or their > methods simply because you do not agree. > > Exten => s,5, If you have found a bug, feel free to discuss it here to > confirm the issue, but remember, if you want action, you > will need to post it to the bug tracker at > http://bugs.digium.com, and be available for further testing if > necessary. Also, to keep non-bugs out of > the tracker, try to find someone on #asterisk-bugs on IRC > before posting the bug to confirm it. > > Exten => s,6, If you find something useful to the community, and it > directly relates to Asterisk, share it! Feel free to post > here or on the Wiki > (http://www.voip-info.org/Wiki-Asterisk). > > Exten => s,7, Not everyone will abide by the etiquette, and there's > nothing we can do about that; But to avoid a flare-up, try > not to take it personally, or better yet, simply don't respond to > it. > > Exten => s,8,Goto(Etiquette,s,1) > > > If we can all agree on this, this list will continue to be a useful tool > for the community. > > Please note - this was not specific to anyone, nor should it be taken > personally by anyone. This is just a guideline to keeping the peace, > and increase our productivity as a community. > > **** Remember: We are a COMMUNITY. **** > > Thank you for your time, and please, if you must flame me for this, do > it off-list. > > --- > with our deepest love, > twisted & bkw > > Exten => h,1,HangUp() > > _______________________________________________ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users-- --- Josh Roberson Indigent Networks twisted@indigent-networks.com 877.677.9647 - 615.724.0402
You forgot to add in how awful it is when people post using HTML and then override font sizes or assume blue is an appropriate font color for their message. While I know some people don't like it when I turn my attention to them, if it takes me even one more button press to be able to read your mail, it isn't likely to be interesting to me to even bother helping you with your problem. Since the majority of unix users understand how each of us tweak our environment to be the most productive for us, we don't like it when you take liberties with our settings. On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 22:03, twisted wrote:> Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears! > > Or, in this case, your eyes. > > It has become a problem I've noticed over and over again, that we tend > to think the mailing list is some sort of forum, used to post whatever > your hearts desire. This list, not unlike any other mailing list, has > a purpose. A focus if you will. Hopefully this 'document' will point > out some key things we need to change to help this list remain friendly > and helpful, not to mention, a vital asset to the Asterisk community. > > And now, for the Asterisk-Users dial plan: > > [Etiquette] > > Exten => s,1, Posts to the Asterisk-Users list should be concise, and > on-topic. Remember, the topic is ASTERISK, not "Provider > X doesn't answer email", or "Provider Y doesn't have rates listed > on their website." Gripes of this nature, and discussion of > businesses relating to Asterisk should be handled on the > Asterisk-Biz list, or in the case of customer service, with the > person/provider in question. > > Exten => s,2, Everyone was new at some point. Let's try to keep our > cool with new members of the asterisk community. While > yes, there needs to be some research done before asking > questions, Let's point them in the right direction, and do so > politely. A general rule of thumb to use is to reply to 'newbie' > questions as if the person asking the question was a guest in > your home. > > Exten => s,3, Since there are lot of users who deal with the community > from the workplace, let's watch our language on the list. > Not to be a sort of cyber-nanny, but most workplace ethics frown > deeply on vulgarity in *ANY* form. > > Exten => s,4, Keep flames, criticism, and cruelty to yourself. If you > don't like the way a question has been answered, simply > post an alternative method. No need to degrade someone or their > methods simply because you do not agree. > > Exten => s,5, If you have found a bug, feel free to discuss it here to > confirm the issue, but remember, if you want action, you > will need to post it to the bug tracker at > http://bugs.digium.com, and be available for further testing if > necessary. Also, to keep non-bugs out of > the tracker, try to find someone on #asterisk-bugs on IRC > before posting the bug to confirm it. > > Exten => s,6, If you find something useful to the community, and it > directly relates to Asterisk, share it! Feel free to post > here or on the Wiki > (http://www.voip-info.org/Wiki-Asterisk). > > Exten => s,7, Not everyone will abide by the etiquette, and there's > nothing we can do about that; But to avoid a flare-up, try > not to take it personally, or better yet, simply don't respond to > it. > > Exten => s,8,Goto(Etiquette,s,1) > > > If we can all agree on this, this list will continue to be a useful tool > for the community. > > Please note - this was not specific to anyone, nor should it be taken > personally by anyone. This is just a guideline to keeping the peace, > and increase our productivity as a community. > > **** Remember: We are a COMMUNITY. **** > > Thank you for your time, and please, if you must flame me for this, do > it off-list. > > --- > with our deepest love, > twisted & bkw > > Exten => h,1,HangUp() > > _______________________________________________ > Asterisk-Users mailing list > Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: > http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users-- Steven Critchfield <critch@basesys.com>
On Mon, 2004-06-14 at 23:03, twisted wrote: [snip]> And now, for the Asterisk-Users dial plan:[snip] Before hanging up, there should be an extension reminding everyone that top posting is super duper wrong and oh so annoying. I used to top post, but now I understand why it's frowned upon. It should be avoided at all costs. Please, everyone, stop top posting. And, for people that don't top post, please cut out the sections of the message that aren't required. There's usually no need to include an entire message when replying in a thread. Anyway, that's my two cents. Kanwar Systems Aligned Inc. www.systemsaligned.com
> Before hanging up, there should be an extension reminding everyone that > top posting is super duper wrong and oh so annoying.Must I use the Wiki or Google to find out what "top posting" is? :-)
And didn't the original poster of this thread state rather forcefully that this list is for * issues, not to be hijacked - which is exactly what is happening based on comments/demands made by the original poster that were not on the topic of * Simon Brown -----Original Message----- From: asterisk-users-admin@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-admin@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Chris Lee Sent: Tuesday, 15 June 2004 20:34 To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk-Users List Etiquette Kevin Walsh wrote:> Steven Critchfield [critch@basesys.com] wrote: > >>You forgot to add in how awful it is when people post using HTML and >>then override font sizes or assume blue is an appropriate font color >>for their message. >> >>While I know some people don't like it when I turn my attention to >>them, if it takes me even one more button press to be able to read >>your mail, it isn't likely to be interesting to me to even bother >>helping you with your problem. >> >>Since the majority of unix users understand how each of us tweak our >>environment to be the most productive for us, we don't like it when >>you take liberties with our settings. >> > > He also forgot to mention how awful it is when people lazily top-post > instead of taking the time to format their followups correctly. > This is especially true when trying to follow a thread found in the > archives. > > I fully agree with your anti-HTML comments, by the way. >I think you will find that about half the people out there disagree with this sentiment (a guess based on the number of top and bottom posters I have seen) so no matter how often you ask it is not likely to change things much. Top posting is what a lot of people are very comfortable with. It also has the advantage in lists that when you step through a thread the answer to the last item is ready for you to read. So If you bottom post you make life harder for the thread reader but if you top post you make life harder for those that get a long mail out of the archives.Who should we favor? Don't ask why I am bottom posting, I have no good reason, it just so happens that I am. I don't like HTML either but a lot of people don't know they can switch it off or that it even exists (its a word processor isn't it?). Getting offended by these personal preferences just leads to that etiquette problem, the god ol flame war. Or at least heated debate that will never be won with so many advocates for each side, that the lists become quite full of top/bottom html/text arguments. Please don't bring these subjects into things it just makes people with other views upset. _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
On Monday 14 June 2004 23:03, twisted wrote:> Friends, Romans, Countrymen, lend me your ears!This reminds me of the Robin Hood, Men in Tights scene where Robin of Loxley says the same and all the villagers throw ears at him. "That's disgusting!"> And now, for the Asterisk-Users dial plan:You forgot one: exten => s,8,When starting a new discussion, DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT hit the "Reply" button, change the subject, erase the body and start a new subject! This places your question in the middle of an ongoing thread. You probably don't notice this becuase your mail reader does not support threading but for the vast majority of us it buries your question in the middle of an unrelated string of messages and actually PREVENTS us from noticing your question since we may not be interested in the rest of the thread. Please, for God's Sake, click on the email address for the list, save yourself a lot of erasing and give your question the "new thread" smell it deserves! exten => s,9,Goto(Ettiquette,s,1) Regards, Andrew
For me the big issue of html is in the message digests. Since the html is mixed in with plain text browsers do not detect the html. For individual messages HTML is generally not a problem.> Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] Asterisk-Users List Etiquette > From: Steven Critchfield <critch@basesys.com> > To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com > Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 10:10:12 -0500 > Reply-To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com > > On Tue, 2004-06-15 at 08:35, Rich Adamson wrote: > >>Isn't it odd as hell the same people that complain about html are also >>some of the same people that use "special" mail readers to emulate news >>readers? Both seem to want to influence the 8,000 list members their >>tools are the only one's in existence and we better all format our >>list postings to make their tool happy. NOT! >> >>Guess my 1996 reader must be a little odd; it handles top & bottom postings >>along with html without complaining a bit. > > > Most all mail readers these days support HTML email. The difference > though is when one uses a mail reader that renders the HTML and the HTML > is written by someone who has no clue how the readers machine is set up.
Kevin Walsh <mailto:kevin@cursor.biz> scribbled on Tuesday, June 15, 2004 2:32 PM:> If you use Microsoft Outlook then you might find this utility > interesting: > > http://home.in.tum.de/~jain/software/outlook-quotefix/Just a note for those using Word as their editor (an option you can configure from the Outlook Options/Mail Format menu:) This plug-in will not work when using Word as your editor. Word does not provide any quoting besides indentation. I use Outlook here at work (don't have a choice) and had to change my editor back to Outlook in order to get this working right. I personally prefer top-posting for most things when following a thread as I can open the new message and the most recent comments are right at the top. If I need a refresher, I can read down further. It is similar to the way newspaper articles are written, the most relevant information at the top. On the flip side, reading archived messages are a bigger pain when top-posted, so I can definitely understand why some people complain. Jeremy Disclaimer: 16/6/2004 MPC Computers is providing the following information in compliance with federal regulations: MPC Computers, LLC 906 E. Karcher Road Nampa, Idaho 83687 1-888-224-4247 http://www.mpccorp.com If you wish to unsubscribe to all e-mail communications with MPC, please click on the link below. http://www.mpccorp.com/email/unsubscribe.html
What is this? Day Three? What is the standing record on this list for flame wars? You guys need to do a sanity check. These posts are nothing more than SPAM and Ive just added to it. I feel so dirty now.>>> troy@psknet.com 6/17/2004 9:08:09 AM >>>> -----Original Message----- > From: Gonzalo Servat > Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2004 9:34 AM > > Sorry to butt into this thread, but I think this is where you went > wrong. There was absolutely no need to quote 70+ lines of text tosay> what you had to say. You're supposed to quote the relevant bits (asI> did with this email), not the entire thread. >It's an open mailing list, you're not butting in at all. I agree with you completely, however, there is this great tool called 'exageration' that is sometimes used to make a point when a real-world example would be too small to be perceived as signifigant. For those nay-sayers, please look at my post carefully. I bottom posted, keeping the existing style, and while I left the quoted material untrimmed, I also mentioned the other extreme, which is to completely exclude any quoted material at all. The bottom line of this issue is that everyone has their preferences, and no amount of crying and whining will cause the other side to comply with your wishes. There are valid reasons for both posting styles, live with it. Those who continue to whine and cry about top posting need to be larted with a vengence. It's like the last cry of those who lost the vi-vs-emacs debate. Just because you prefer one over the other doesn't make everyone else 'wrong.' IMO, the top-vs-bottom topic really needs to be classified right along side with the RH-vs-Debian, red-vs-blue, unix-vs-windows, ford-vs-chevy, linux-vs-bsd, and other similar cases of personal preferences. The is no winner, there never will be a winner. BTW, for those of you who are curious, I too dispise HTML formatted email in a mailing list environment. I also dislike those who flagrantly disregard existing styles within a thread (but, it's ok if different threads have different styles). I also have very low regard for those among us who would hijack a thread. I don't use a threaded mail reader myself (sucks to be me), but when browsing archives by thread, it's really annoying to find questions about personal lubricant in the middle of a heated debate about top-vs-bottom. Of course, sometimes a thread will mutate naturally, at which point, it may be appropriate to change the subject (which I'm not going to do, since I'm too damned lazy. Oh, for those curious, my single, biggest beef with mailing lists, is the inclusion of a list tag in the Subject: line. I know it's Asterisk-Users, because it says so in the To: line. It also says so in the List-ID: and Sender: lines. -- Troy Settle Pulaski Networks http://www.psknet.com 866.477.5638 _______________________________________________ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users