Hi, I am interested in has_and_belongs_to_many with an acts_as_list relationship where the position field is in the join table. I found the following tutorial http://wiki.rubyonrails.org/rails/pages/HowToUseActsAsListWithHasAndBelongsToMany Is there a newer way that is less complicated? What about the :through parameter that I read DHH is writing? Is that a reality yet? Thanks, Peter