This is my second mail because the first one turned into a two page novel. Basically my question is this, what is your opinion on the following, in regards to having to know about the os and USE in your hosting environtment. Here is my problem... We have a sales guy that sold people on the idea of having 4 windows clients, and 2 "filestore" servers. filestore1 backs up to filestore2 so that if filestore1 fails, they can move over. Okay that is fine right. But now my boss wants me to be able to keep track and manage what these guests FUNCTION AS. ie he wants to be able to allow a customer to tell us to have filestore1 on one physical xen machine, and filestore2 on another physical xen machine. This way if one physical box dies they can still operate on filestore2 on the other box. My problem with this is being asked to MANAGE these guests, and having to know which guests can run where. I just want to tell a customer here is your memory and disk space, here is windows installed. Thats IT. We already concluded we did not want to be involved in the IT aspect of running virtual servers. Now for us to take this track seems like we now would have to take on the IT architecture design as well. I REALLY dont want to give a rip what the guests are running or how their os/it level applications are setup. Does that make sense? Looking for some help here. Im not really into having to build and keep a spreadsheet of guest2-1 needs to be on xen1, guest2-2 needs to be on xen2. Oh guest2-2 died uhhh cant move it to xen1 so have to move to xen3, oh xen3 doesnt have enough resources DAMN. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:34 PM, Brandon Lamb <brandonlamb@gmail.com> wrote:> This is my second mail because the first one turned into a two page novel. > > Basically my question is this, what is your opinion on the following, > in regards to having to know about the os and USE in your hosting > environtment. Here is my problem... > > We have a sales guy that sold people on the idea of having 4 windows > clients, and 2 "filestore" servers. filestore1 backs up to filestore2 > so that if filestore1 fails, they can move over. Okay that is fine > right. But now my boss wants me to be able to keep track and manage > what these guests FUNCTION AS. ie he wants to be able to allow a > customer to tell us to have filestore1 on one physical xen machine, > and filestore2 on another physical xen machine. This way if one > physical box dies they can still operate on filestore2 on the other > box. > > My problem with this is being asked to MANAGE these guests, and having > to know which guests can run where. I just want to tell a customer > here is your memory and disk space, here is windows installed. Thats > IT. We already concluded we did not want to be involved in the IT > aspect of running virtual servers. Now for us to take this track seems > like we now would have to take on the IT architecture design as well. > I REALLY dont want to give a rip what the guests are running or how > their os/it level applications are setup. > > Does that make sense? Looking for some help here. Im not really into > having to build and keep a spreadsheet of guest2-1 needs to be on > xen1, guest2-2 needs to be on xen2. Oh guest2-2 died uhhh cant move it > to xen1 so have to move to xen3, oh xen3 doesnt have enough resources > DAMN.I also cant seem to get the point across that, ok if clients1-4 and fileserver1 are on xen1, and filestore2 are on xen2 and then xen1 physical box dies, theres NO point in splitting where filestore1 and 2 are because theres no clients to access filestore2 anway! Part of this huge argument was the salesman selling clients on "if your first datastore fails i can set your clients to use your second one" but didnt really think this out at the physical box level. Another discussion/argument is on hot spares. It seems to me a total waste to have to basically buy a new server twice, because for every server there would be a hot spare ready to go if the primary failed for every physical box. I would much prefer the cloud type model where if xen2 failed, i would just use my backup server to bring whatever guests were running up on other boxes that had free resources. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
I have also been battling with a lot of "well vmware already does that, its working on the box he has setup right now, why dont we just run that". Today i saw that vmware apparently has some builtin clustering system, so you can create a virtual disk and attach it to multiple clients? I didnt really have a quick xen solution for that. Also another note, is there a list (whether one point or twenty) on WHY would you run xen instead of vmware? Xen gets better performance? Is that the only reason? vmware has this, and that, pretty gui, builtin virtual disk clustering, blah blah, I dont even know what else. I need some more ammunition for tomorrow when we resume our discussion and hopefully dont end up wrestling in the parking lot... _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:47 PM, chris <khris4@gmail.com> wrote:> Have you taken a look a xenserver and there comparison list to vmware on > chttp://www.citrix.com/English/ps2/products/feature.asp?contentID=1686939&ntref=prod_top take > a look at that link. > > On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Brandon Lamb <brandonlamb@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> I have also been battling with a lot of "well vmware already does >> that, its working on the box he has setup right now, why dont we just >> run that". >> >> Today i saw that vmware apparently has some builtin clustering system, >> so you can create a virtual disk and attach it to multiple clients? I >> didnt really have a quick xen solution for that. >> >> Also another note, is there a list (whether one point or twenty) on >> WHY would you run xen instead of vmware? Xen gets better performance? >> Is that the only reason? vmware has this, and that, pretty gui, >> builtin virtual disk clustering, blah blah, I dont even know what >> else. >> >> I need some more ammunition for tomorrow when we resume our discussion >> and hopefully dont end up wrestling in the parking lot...Yea I believe I have seen that, but that is a pretty crap list, seems to pretty much be useless sales "fluff". Like wth is "Intelligent server maintenance mode". To someone just starting to setup xen or decide on kvm, xen or vmware, that really doesnt mean anything in plain english. Or "Virtual infrastructure patch management"... Hm ok sweet, whatever that is lol. Theres no quick obvious links to what any of that means. Where is the REAL benefits to using xen over vmware. Vmware does everything, click click its done. Im ok with spending time and a little sweat to get xen WORKING, from all the stuff I could find to read xen is suppose to be faster, built with security in mind, etc. The console commands seem comfortable enough, i run all linux so using a click click GUI is weird. Basically I am in the position of trying to justify to the powers that be that we should use xen instead of just *settling* on vmware because its click click oh look it works. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
mike@grounded.net
2010-Mar-16 03:03 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Input from xen hosting providers?
Sometimes, the decision is made to use something which is click click, simple. I started using xen about two years ago, then decided to give esxi a try. I was won over immediately, it works, it''s easy to use, easy to learn. So was xen but esxi even more so. You basically seem to already have your answer, you keep saying how great vmware is :). On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 19:55:31 -0700, Brandon Lamb wrote:>On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:47 PM, chris <khris4@gmail.com>wrote: > >>Have you taken a look a xenserver and there comparison list to vmware on >>chttp://www.citrix.com/English/ps2/products/feature.asp?contentID=1686939&ntre >>f=prod_top take >>a look at that link. >> >>On Mon, Mar 15, 2010 at 7:41 PM, Brandon Lamb <brandonlamb@gmail.com> >>wrote: >> >>>I have also been battling with a lot of "well vmware already does >>>that, its working on the box he has setup right now, why dont we just >>>run that". >>> >>>Today i saw that vmware apparently has some builtin clustering system, >>>so you can create a virtual disk and attach it to multiple clients? I >>>didnt really have a quick xen solution for that. >>> >>>Also another note, is there a list (whether one point or twenty) on >>>WHY would you run xen instead of vmware? Xen gets better performance? >>>Is that the only reason? vmware has this, and that, pretty gui, >>>builtin virtual disk clustering, blah blah, I dont even know what >>>else. >>> >>>I need some more ammunition for tomorrow when we resume our discussion >>>and hopefully dont end up wrestling in the parking lot... >>> >Yea I believe I have seen that, but that is a pretty crap list, seems >to pretty much be useless sales "fluff". Like wth is "Intelligent >server maintenance mode". To someone just starting to setup xen or >decide on kvm, xen or vmware, that really doesnt mean anything in >plain english. > >Or "Virtual infrastructure patch management"... Hm ok sweet, whatever >that is lol. Theres no quick obvious links to what any of that means. >Where is the REAL benefits to using xen over vmware. Vmware does >everything, click click its done. > >Im ok with spending time and a little sweat to get xen WORKING, from >all the stuff I could find to read xen is suppose to be faster, built >with security in mind, etc. The console commands seem comfortable >enough, i run all linux so using a click click GUI is weird. > >Basically I am in the position of trying to justify to the powers that >be that we should use xen instead of just *settling* on vmware because >its click click oh look it works. > >_______________________________________________ >Xen-users mailing list >Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
mike@grounded.net
2010-Mar-16 03:14 UTC
Re: [Xen-users] Re: Input from xen hosting providers?
>Haha, well saying its great from my boss''s perspective. Personally I >want to go with xen. We are not a windows shop, I dont have the >faintest idea how to manage a windows box. Ive never even touched an >actual Windows Server machine before.If you mean ESXi, it''s not a windows box, it''s just a GUI interface but you can also enable ssh and go that way if you prefer. What''s nice about it is if you have a case where a gui console to a guest could come in handy, it''s there. Then again, if it''s a linux guest, you just use ssh as always and some remote access tool for windows if you don''t want to give users console access.>That may actually be a big seller, another is I dont know can windows >do software raids like linux? I was planning on doing a 4 drive >software raid, but if my boss tells me to build vmware servers, i have >no clue how that is going to work, plus losing all kinds of linux >utilities. Ugh. My head hurts after 4-5 hours arguingIt''s become terribly simple to fire up an esx server, then add functionality as you want. I''ve not played with xen in a while but I didn''t find that very difficult other than having to run X to get at the interface. As for RAID or storage, the server can use anything you''ve got. If you''ve got a fibre channel network for example, just pop a card into the server. You can then map storage LUNs as needed. Or go with traditional NFS shares or local storage of course. I''m not suggesting not to use Xen. If that''s what you prefer, it''s best for you :). I only came back to this list hoping that I could find a win/think client solution and hoped to perhaps use xen again but at the moment at least, esxi does it all for me. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Brandon Lamb <brandonlamb@gmail.com> writes:> We have a sales guy that sold people on the idea of having 4 windows > clients, and 2 "filestore" servers. filestore1 backs up to filestore2 > so that if filestore1 fails, they can move over.> > My problem with this is being asked to MANAGE these guests, and having > to know which guests can run where. I just want to tell a customer > here is your memory and disk space, here is windows installed. Thats > IT.I know this is a little late... What I do for my customers is I give them a simple shell menu they can log in to... hostname@dom0name they then know if host1 and host2 are on the same dom0, they need to pester me until I move one of them. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users