Arnaud Quette
2014-Jul-29 20:32 UTC
[Nut-upsdev] APC protocols and drivers (was: Documenting the NUT driver-qualification process)
Hi Ted there was a drift from the initial topic. worth a new thread! 2014-07-27 9:13 GMT+02:00 Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at mittelstaedt.us>:> On 7/26/2014 12:18 PM, Arnaud Quette wrote: > >> Hi Eric, >> >> sorry for the lag, summer time... >> >> I'm first seconding Charles comments >> >> 2014-07-09 12:31 GMT+02:00 Eric S. Raymond <esr at thyrsus.com >> <mailto:esr at thyrsus.com>>: >> >> >> I think the time for me to get involved in NUT documentation has come >> again. >> >> >> welcome back >> >> Late last week I had to buy a UPS under time pressure. The Eaton unit >> that thus project gifted me with in 2006(?) died during a severe >> thunderstorm watch, so it was off to MicroCenter to get a replacement >> pronto. >> >> I wound up buying an APC BN700MC. It was what they had in the >> performance range I needed. The removable battery door was pleasing. >> > > > >> Based on the experience, I have updated the UPS HOWTO: >> >> http://www.catb.org/esr/ldp/UPS-HOWTO.html >> >> The bad news, however, is that (a) this is not a NUT-supported device, >> >> >> I've logged an entry for the APC Modbus: >> https://github.com/networkupstools/nut/issues/139 >> >> and (b) the (poorly documented) NUT process for discovering and >> customizing a driver failed at the first step. Running upsstart >> gave a driver fail message containing no clues as to how to recover. >> >> >> yup, definitely room for enhancement! >> I've got some ideas, beside from the obvious need to improve the >> documentation, that I'll like to discuss. >> >> This is definitely USB and probably a fairly generic hidups device. >> There is no good reason for customizing a driver profile to be >> so difficult. >> >> >> well, I'm unsure since I'm just opening this "APC Modbus Pandora box" >> but if I understand correctly, your new unit is a microlink one. >> > > MAYBE. > > HIS UPS is a BackUPS not a SmartUPS. Originally the APC BackUPS DID NOT > SUPPORT any Smart protocol (the original UPSLink protocol) > > But over the years it's been observed that APC has somewhat "fudged" on > the BackUPS UPSes. Newer ones did appear to implement the UPSlink > protocol over USB. > > Microlink protocol is officially only for APC SmartUPSes. Officially, > what your supposed to get with a BackUPS is dumb signalling only. But, > with the newer BackUPSes that have USB output, some seemed to act like > SmartUPSes even though they were not. > > APC has very much blurred the line on the model BN UPSes. These are the > APC UPSes that look like an oversized power strip. That's the one that he > has. They seem to have dropped monitoring ports completely on these UPSes > that are under 700VA in size. They used to make monitoring ports > on these UPSes all the way down to 350VA. But the current models, only > the 700VA unit like the one he bought, still support the monitoring port. > That port is the special wide RJ45 that has 10 conductors not 8. > It is selectable between serial and USB depending on what cable is used > with it. > > > though the serial version should be Modbus only, >> > > There is no "serial only" APC UPS that supports Modbus, in fact no APC > smart UPS since the Microlink protocol was implemented has been "serial > only", all have been dual-use Serial and USB. > > > I can't say at first if >> the USB ones implement if full Modbus over HID or any other mean. >> I would need traces to give more info. >> >> > The BackUPSes with USB ports might implement full UPSlink over HID. > > Or they might implement Microlink over HID > > Or they might implement nothing like either of that. > > But they definitely don't implement Modbus. > > It is best I think to refer to BackUPS and SmartUPS in the documentation. > Please do not refer to APC UPSes in a generic fashion. And please don't > assume that any APC BackUPS implements any particular > protocol over USB or Serial unless you have directly tested it. APC > BackUPS upses are the "cheap, poor relations" and are for consumers and > penny-pinching businesses that are too cheap to spend a couple hundred > bucks on decent gear. Purchasers who want full functionality should be > encouraged to buy an APC SmartUPS. >thanks for these details, still too blurry for the little time I currently have! my aim there is not to understand APC offering. I don't have time nor interest in that! my aim is simply to have people happy, which generally means supporting their unit, so developing code. period. So, if someone (maybe you): 1) can clarify APC situation WRT protocols (both serial and USB ; microlink / UPSLink / whatever-nameLink) 2) and has access to unit(s) to provide sniff I can check to develop some generic code in "blind mode" (no access to devices), for modbus or else, that also supports APC. cheers, Arno -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://lists.alioth.debian.org/pipermail/nut-upsdev/attachments/20140729/e58cb195/attachment.html>
Ted Mittelstaedt
2014-Jul-30 02:40 UTC
[Nut-upsdev] APC protocols and drivers (was: Documenting the NUT driver-qualification process)
On 7/29/2014 1:32 PM, Arnaud Quette wrote:> Hi Ted > > there was a drift from the initial topic. > worth a new thread! > > 2014-07-27 9:13 GMT+02:00 Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm at mittelstaedt.us > <mailto:tedm at mittelstaedt.us>>: > > On 7/26/2014 12:18 PM, Arnaud Quette wrote: > > Hi Eric, > > sorry for the lag, summer time... > > I'm first seconding Charles comments > > 2014-07-09 12:31 GMT+02:00 Eric S. Raymond <esr at thyrsus.com > <mailto:esr at thyrsus.com> > <mailto:esr at thyrsus.com <mailto:esr at thyrsus.com>>>: > > > I think the time for me to get involved in NUT > documentation has come > again. > > > welcome back > > Late last week I had to buy a UPS under time pressure. The > Eaton unit > that thus project gifted me with in 2006(?) died during a > severe > thunderstorm watch, so it was off to MicroCenter to get a > replacement > pronto. > > I wound up buying an APC BN700MC. It was what they had in the > performance range I needed. The removable battery door was > pleasing. > > > > > Based on the experience, I have updated the UPS HOWTO: > > http://www.catb.org/esr/ldp/UPS-HOWTO.html > > The bad news, however, is that (a) this is not a > NUT-supported device, > > > I've logged an entry for the APC Modbus: > https://github.com/networkupstools/nut/issues/139 > > and (b) the (poorly documented) NUT process for discovering and > customizing a driver failed at the first step. Running > upsstart > gave a driver fail message containing no clues as to how to > recover. > > > yup, definitely room for enhancement! > I've got some ideas, beside from the obvious need to improve the > documentation, that I'll like to discuss. > > This is definitely USB and probably a fairly generic hidups > device. > There is no good reason for customizing a driver profile to be > so difficult. > > > well, I'm unsure since I'm just opening this "APC Modbus Pandora > box" > but if I understand correctly, your new unit is a microlink one. > > > MAYBE. > > HIS UPS is a BackUPS not a SmartUPS. Originally the APC BackUPS DID NOT > SUPPORT any Smart protocol (the original UPSLink protocol) > > But over the years it's been observed that APC has somewhat "fudged" on > the BackUPS UPSes. Newer ones did appear to implement the UPSlink > protocol over USB. > > Microlink protocol is officially only for APC SmartUPSes. Officially, > what your supposed to get with a BackUPS is dumb signalling only. But, > with the newer BackUPSes that have USB output, some seemed to act like > SmartUPSes even though they were not. > > APC has very much blurred the line on the model BN UPSes. These are the > APC UPSes that look like an oversized power strip. That's the one > that he has. They seem to have dropped monitoring ports completely > on these UPSes that are under 700VA in size. They used to make > monitoring ports > on these UPSes all the way down to 350VA. But the current models, > only the 700VA unit like the one he bought, still support the > monitoring port. That port is the special wide RJ45 that has 10 > conductors not 8. > It is selectable between serial and USB depending on what cable is used > with it. > > > though the serial version should be Modbus only, > > > There is no "serial only" APC UPS that supports Modbus, in fact no > APC smart UPS since the Microlink protocol was implemented has been > "serial only", all have been dual-use Serial and USB. > > > I can't say at first if > the USB ones implement if full Modbus over HID or any other mean. > I would need traces to give more info. > > > The BackUPSes with USB ports might implement full UPSlink over HID. > > Or they might implement Microlink over HID > > Or they might implement nothing like either of that. > > But they definitely don't implement Modbus. > > It is best I think to refer to BackUPS and SmartUPS in the > documentation. Please do not refer to APC UPSes in a generic > fashion. And please don't assume that any APC BackUPS implements any > particular > protocol over USB or Serial unless you have directly tested it. APC > BackUPS upses are the "cheap, poor relations" and are for consumers and > penny-pinching businesses that are too cheap to spend a couple > hundred bucks on decent gear. Purchasers who want full > functionality should be > encouraged to buy an APC SmartUPS. > > > thanks for these details, still too blurry for the little time I > currently have! > my aim there is not to understand APC offering. I don't have time nor > interest in that! > my aim is simply to have people happy, which generally means supporting > their unit, so developing code. period. > > So, if someone (maybe you): > 1) can clarify APC situation WRT protocols (both serial and USB ; > microlink / UPSLink / whatever-nameLink)OK here's the general rule of thumb FOR SMARTUPS ONLY: APC models with a model # starting with SUA - UPSLink APC models with a model # starting with SMT - Microlink APC models with a model # starting with SMT dated 2014 or later - Microlink & Modbus A firmware update exists that can make SOME Microlink-only into Microlink & Modbus Here's the general rule of thumb for BACKUPS: Backups with Serial Port - dumb signalling. Backups with Serial & USB port - dumb signalling on serial, HID UPS signalling on USB> 2) and has access to unit(s) to provide sniff >I have a number of different APC UPSes. I can setup a test Linux server that you would have root access to with both serial and USB ports plugged into whatever version of APC UPS you want to play with. Ted> I can check to develop some generic code in "blind mode" (no access to > devices), for modbus or else, that also supports APC. > > cheers, > Arno >