Think of this as a motion as one might move at a meeting. Discussion and refinement are in order. I don't understand the current rationale for a single CentOS users' list; probably in times past it was sensible, but I think the time has come for splitting the list by release. I'm speaking from my own perspective, but I'm sure others have similar stories. How many users use all CentOS releases? I am not on the Fedora users' list because of the volume of email, though I do use Fedora Core and might usefully contribute to FC in that way. Similarly, I'm no longer on the OpenSUSE list, same story. The time has come when I must, again, reduce the volume of email I see, because it's clogging my modem. I use CentOS4 and plan to use CentOS5. I am interested in email for those, but not for CentOS 3 (I have no systems) nor CentOS 2 (I have one RHL 7.3 system that thinks it's CentOS 2, but it's in maintenance mode, and anything I do I will do alone). I don't know how much email I would eliminate by dropping email for Centos < C4, but when I move to CentOS 5 I will lose interest in C4 and then there will be savings. If this list were split into one for each release, then subscribers could choose which email they see. At present, it's all or none, and neither suits me. If this list is split into four, then I expect the transition method would be to subscribe everyone on this list to the new four. At some point, this would become read-only (nobody posts), or maybe all mail for this goes (via a filter to fix the headers) to all the others. By "fix the headers" I mean "do whatever it takes to ensure replies go to the list the subscriber is replying to." I'm sure this transition arrangement is imperfect; my objectives are to encourage CentOS to have the separate lists, and to ensure that the transition is fairly easy for users so we don't lose lots of subscribers. What do others think? -- Cheers John -- spambait 1aaaaaaa at coco.merseine.nu Z1aaaaaaa at coco.merseine.nu Please do not reply off-list
On Tuesday, May 01, 2007 9:24 AM +0800 John Summerfield <debian at herakles.homelinux.org> wrote:> I don't know how much email I would eliminate by dropping email for > Centos < C4, but when I move to CentOS 5 I will lose interest in C4 and > then there will be savings.How much mail is release-specific? I would guess such threads would be mostly about installation, so it might be better to split off a -install list. Traffic about getting drivers to work might also be redirected to such a list. Runtime packages should be pretty common among all releases and might as well be in -users. You might also consider reading the list with a news reader through gmane to avoid the download cost.
John Summerfield wrote:> I don't understand the current rationale for a single CentOS users' > list; probably in times past it was sensible, but I think the time has > come for splitting the list by release. > > I'm speaking from my own perspective, but I'm sure others have similar > stories. How many users use all CentOS releases?I totally agree John - as CentOS gets more popular i too have found myself using 'Mark folder as Read' too often.> If this list were split into one for each release, then subscribers > could choose which email they see. At present, it's all or none, and > neither suits me.My worry would be the increases in cross-posting, and maybe the need for centos-general, but i guess these can mostly be posted to a CentOS(max_version) list. A point that may mitigate the need to act now: I have seen the volume of mail surge about t-2_months before the launch of v5 - and i wasnt here for the launch of 4.0 -> 4.4, but would you not expect a lot of noise to dissipate soon now we are t+2_weeks? Thats my 2c worth. MrKiwi
John Summerfield wrote:> I don't understand the current rationale for a single CentOS users' > list; probably in times past it was sensible, but I think the time has > come for splitting the list by release.We've been down this route before - and the same things are going to be said now that were said previously, we are not going to be splitting the list based on Release and/or Arch. It might have worked for others, but we dont want to split the community up into fragments. And, personally, I think this is working very well - we get max eyeballs and people dont need to be subscribed to a multiple lists to keep an eye on stuff. Perhaps when membership of the list hits 50,000 we might reconsider - but were not there yet. What might be worth looking at was to create more lists ( not split ) based on technology (eg. CentOS-Clustering ), but we've not really had any request for those, afict. And as Les has already pointed out - most stuff in the lists is common. perhaps you should consider compress'd digests for your mailing lists traffic. - KB -- Karanbir Singh : http://www.karan.org/ : 2522219 at icq
John Summerfield wrote:> Think of this as a motion as one might move at a meeting. Discussion and > refinement are in order. > > > I don't understand the current rationale for a single CentOS users' > list; probably in times past it was sensible, but I think the time has > come for splitting the list by release. > > I'm speaking from my own perspective, but I'm sure others have similar > stories. How many users use all CentOS releases? > > I am not on the Fedora users' list because of the volume of email, > though I do use Fedora Core and might usefully contribute to FC in that > way. > > Similarly, I'm no longer on the OpenSUSE list, same story. > > The time has come when I must, again, reduce the volume of email I see, > because it's clogging my modem. > > I use CentOS4 and plan to use CentOS5. I am interested in email for > those, but not for CentOS 3 (I have no systems) nor CentOS 2 (I have one > RHL 7.3 system that thinks it's CentOS 2, but it's in maintenance mode, > and anything I do I will do alone). > > I don't know how much email I would eliminate by dropping email for > Centos < C4, but when I move to CentOS 5 I will lose interest in C4 and > then there will be savings. > > If this list were split into one for each release, then subscribers > could choose which email they see. At present, it's all or none, and > neither suits me. > > If this list is split into four, then I expect the transition method > would be to subscribe everyone on this list to the new four. > > At some point, this would become read-only (nobody posts), or maybe all > mail for this goes (via a filter to fix the headers) to all the others. > > By "fix the headers" I mean "do whatever it takes to ensure replies go > to the list the subscriber is replying to." > > I'm sure this transition arrangement is imperfect; my objectives are to > encourage CentOS to have the separate lists, and to ensure that the > transition is fairly easy for users so we don't lose lots of subscribers. > > What do others think?For the time I have been in this list, I do not remember seeing any message about CentOS 3.x or older. I think what should be done is reducing the amount of emails per digest, so as to be able to use mime digests, which I think currently is not feasible, due to the amount of the messages per digest. This is feasible, does not modify the size of emails, and is a correction to a mailing list "bug" (I consider not being able to use mime digests which is available as an option, a bug).
Message: 41 Date: Tue, 1 May 2007 20:50:22 +0200 From: Ralph Angenendt <ra+centos at br-online.de> Subject: Re: [CentOS] New lists To: centos at centos.org Message-ID: <20070501185020.GA1105 at br-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii">This size is set fairly huge, so it never seems to be reached - 30 MB. >That's why you're only seeing daily digests. I think this number could >be set much lower if digest subscribers want to have that. >So other digest subscribers: Speak up!Ralph: Like John, I'm on a very slow dial-up connection. I'm a Digest subscriber. I have *no* complaints about the current mailing list. I only want one digest a day, and, frequently, I'm not online every day. Much of the traffic on this list is above my head, but, I learn from it! I *deeply* appreciate the very knowledgeable people sharing their time and knowledge with the newbies! After having Broadband (Cable Modem), for 3+ years in Cali, going back to a modem was a PITA. Been waiting for WiMAX, which is available in Cali, but still is not available in our town, a few miles away. Guess I will go with ADSL. Lanny in Colombia