samba - Mar 2012 - windows 7 roaming profiles

Hi
Samba4 DC and win 7 clients.

The user profiles are stored in a profiles share:
[profiles]
     path = /home/CACTUS/profiles
     read only = No

This works OK and the user can logon to different boxes with the same 
profile. The profile folders such as Desktop, Downloads etc. however, 
also appear stored on the local disk under c:\users\username. Any file 
saved e.g. on the Desktop, is not saved to the roaming profile until the 
user logs off.

It seems pointless to have a roaming _and_ a local profile.

A few qns:
1. What am I doing wrong?
2. Is it correct that the profile files are not synced until the user 
logs off?
3. Unless /the profiles folder is world read/write, the user gets logged 
on with a temporary profile. Correct?

Thanks,
Steve

On 3/27/2012 5:55 AM, steve wrote:
> Hi
> Samba4 DC and win 7 clients.
>
> The user profiles are stored in a profiles share:
> [profiles]
> path = /home/CACTUS/profiles
> read only = No
>
> This works OK and the user can logon to different boxes with the same
> profile. The profile folders such as Desktop, Downloads etc. however,
> also appear stored on the local disk under c:\users\username. Any file
> saved e.g. on the Desktop, is not saved to the roaming profile until the
> user logs off.
>
> It seems pointless to have a roaming _and_ a local profile.
>
> A few qns:
> 1. What am I doing wrong?
> 2. Is it correct that the profile files are not synced until the user
> logs off?
> 3. Unless /the profiles folder is world read/write, the user gets logged
> on with a temporary profile. Correct?
>
> Thanks,
> Steve
1. looks like your doing nothing wrong.
2. correct.
3. there maybe a few tricks to deal with this but at the moment I do not 
know what they are.

what you might be looking for is to remap user folders, this would be in 
the group policies.

On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 7:55 AM, steve <steve at steve-ss.com>
wrote:
> This works OK and the user can logon to different boxes with the same
> profile. The profile folders such as Desktop, Downloads etc. however, also
> appear stored on the local disk under c:\users\username. Any file saved
e.g.
> on the Desktop, is not saved to the roaming profile until the user logs
off.
this is exactly how roaming profiles work.  it syncs at logon and
logoff.  What you are looking for is called folder redirection, most
of the user folders can be redirected, but certain things can't mostly
because MS doesn't want to "trust" a network drive for something
like
a registry hive.

> 2. Is it correct that the profile files are not synced until the user
> logs off?
That is the correct working of roaming profiles. If you want the files 
only on the server, you should look into "Folder redirection". The
Samba
docs contain good info on that.

You can use roaming profiles only, folder redirection only, or a 
combination of both, which I usually consider the more appropriate option.

Samba-3 by Example -- Configuration of Default Profile with Folder 
Redirection
http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-Guide/happy.html#redirfold

There's another good web page about this issue (Windows System 
Management: Real Men Don't Click) but it seems unavailable now. I have 
it in my archives and I will send it to your email address as a .mht file.

On 2012-03-29 2:00 PM, steve <steve at steve-ss.com>
wrote:
> El 27/03/12 17:32, Miguel Medalha escribi?:
>> If you want the files only on the server, you should look into
>> "Folder redirection". The Samba docs contain good info on
that.
>>
>> You can use roaming profiles only, folder redirection only, or a
>> combination of both, which I usually consider the more appropriate
>> option.
>>
>> Samba-3 by Example -- Configuration of Default Profile with Folder
>> Redirection
>> http://www.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-Guide/happy.html#redirfold
> My main concern was the filling up of the local disk with user profiles.
> A user may for example only log onto one particular box once and then
> never again.
>
> Of the three you mention above, which one corresponds to 'always read
> the profle from the server and store nothing on the local disk'?
None...

Folder Redirection will always (I think - or maybe Samba has a way to 
disable this, but I don't think it would be a good idea at all) store 
local cached copy of those folders on the local computer... what it 
accomplishes is it saves all of the copying back and forth when logging 
in/out.

If you want to use thin clients, use thin clients, don't cripple 
Redirected Folders.

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

> Isn't there a way with group policies to have the client delete the
> roaming profile after the user logs out. I think that would solve the
> OP''s problem.

Yes, there's a way to do that. But it doesn't solve the problem of
having to transfer maybe hundreds of megabytes or even worse each time
you log in to the domain. Back when the idea of roaming profiles was
first put to practice (Windows 2000), user profiles were MUCH smaller
than they are today.

So, the use of roaming profiles with folder redirection seems to me
the most appropriate way to deal with this.

Please note that the "Local Settings" component of the profile should
not be redirected.

On 2012-03-29 3:36 PM, Miguel Medalha <miguelmedalha at sapo.pt>
wrote:
>> Folder Redirection will always (I think - or maybe Samba has a way to
>> disable this, but I don't think it would be a good idea at all)
store
>> local cached copy of those folders on the local computer... what it
>> accomplishes is it saves all of the copying back and forth when
>> logging in/out.
> NO, IT DOESN'T!
Microsoft disagrees - see below.
> What you describe is the behavior of normal *roaming profiles*.
No... you can use a combination of roaming profiles and redirected 
folders for the best result, which is what I do. The stuff in t he 
roaming profiles (very little) is copied back/forth at login/out, the 
stuff in t he redirected folders is *synchronized* at all times using 
the Offline Files technology that has long existed in Microsofts products.
> Folder redirection *does not* move files back and forth.
Yes, it does, but it does so on an ongoing basis (except for the first 
logon). When  the user creates a new file in a redirectd folder, it is 
saved *simultaneously* to both the local cache and the server side folder.
> The files in redirected folders will always reside on the server. I
> know this not only from theory but *from experience*.
Yes, but they will *also* reside on the *local computer*.

 From the below link:

"Folder Redirection improvements in Windows 7

The Folder Redirection feature in the Windows operating system allows 
administrators to redirect user folders such as Documents, Pictures, or 
Music to shared folders that are hosted on servers. Folder Redirection 
is used in conjunction with the Offline Files technology to ensure that 
the user?s data is available when the network connection to the server 
that is hosting a redirected folder becomes latent or unavailable."

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff458273%28v=ws.10%29.aspx

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

This is also worth reading:

http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ff183315%28WS.10%29.aspx

This is important:

?
Exclusion List

The Exclusion List feature reduces synchronization overhead and disk 
space usage on the server, and speeds up backup and restore operations, 
by excluding files of certain types from replication across all Folder 
Redirection clients. Prior to Windows 7, all files in an Offline Files 
folder were replicated to the server. This often meant that a users? 
personal files or large files not relevant to the enterprise were 
replicated to one or more servers, thereby consuming disk space and 
slowing backup and restore times. On Windows 7, administrators can use 
the Offline Files Exclusion List feature to prevent files of certain 
types (for example, MP3 files) from being synchronized. The list of file 
types is configured by the IT administrator by using Group Policy.
?

On 2012-03-30 3:18 AM, steve <steve at steve-ss.com>
wrote:
> El 29/03/12 22:36, Miguel Medalha escribi?:
 >> Charles wrote:
>>> The stuff in t he roaming profiles (very little) is copied
back/forth
>>> at login/out, the stuff in t he redirected folders is
*synchronized*
>>> at all times using the Offline Files technology that has long
existed
>>> in Microsofts products.
> I create a file and store it on my desktop.
>
> roaming profile
> It is stored locally until I log off whereupon it is synced to the server.
Correct...
> desktop folder redirected
> The file is only ever stored at the destination.
Incorrect (again, unless you have changed the default, and again, I am 
not even sure this is possible, and definitely it is most likely not 
recommended).
> Edits are instantaneously synced, not only when I log off.
Correct... they are *synced*... which means they exist in *both* 
locations, *not* '*only* on the destination/redirected folder'...

-- 

Best regards,

Charles

On 2012-03-30 12:35 PM, Charles Marcus <CMarcus at Media-Brokers.com>
wrote:
> I was simply pointing out that the *default* behavior was to always
> cache all data in redirected folders on the local client using the tried
> and true 'offline files' technology, but in a different way with
respect
> to Redirected Folders (with Windows 7, which, in case you hadn't
> noticed, is the subject being discussed) - it synchronizes *as changes
> are made*, *in the background*, not at logon/logoff.
And of course, all of my replies also 'assume' that Samba behaves the 
same way as Windows Server with Win 7 Clients - meaning, the default 
behavior is to *always* *cache* (and sync in the background) all 
redirected folder data on the local client.

Can anyone with *definitive* knowledge please comment on whether or not 
this is true (it will affect my decision on replacing our Windows 
Servers with Samba sometime in the next year or so)?

Also, I am curious if it is even possible to disable the local caching 
on the client (although as I have said, I personally cannot think of 
*any* reason/scenario where that would be a good idea - if you truly 
never want *any* data residing on the local client, use THIN clients, 
that is what they are for).

-- 

Best regards,

Charles