Hello, I have been using Xen for many years now. I have mainly used it on Ubuntu and Debian, but I have also tried it on CentOS 5. Most of my machines have been installed a few years back. Then there seemed to be good packages for most distributions and a lot of nice examples on how to get it working. Now that I am trying to install a new server with the latest version of my favorite distribution, I am having a lot of problems. Not just that they have started using an annoying version of grub, but also because the packaged Xen kernel does not seem to work. So, I would like to ask what is the future of Xen in the Linux distributions and which one should I start using as my Xen dom0? Best regards, Jukka Kommeri _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 1:44 AM, Jukka Kommeri <kommeri@cern.ch> wrote:> Hello, > > I have been using Xen for many years now. I have mainly used it on Ubuntu > and Debian, but I have also tried it on CentOS 5. Most of my machines have > been installed a few years back. Then there seemed to be good packages for > most distributions and a lot of nice examples on how to get it working. > > Now that I am trying to install a new server with the latest version of my > favorite distribution, I am having a lot of problems. Not just that they > have started using an annoying version of grub, but also because the > packaged Xen kernel does not seem to work. > > So, I would like to ask what is the future of Xen in the Linux > distributions and which one should I start using as my Xen dom0? > > Best regards, > Jukka Kommeri > > >This has been a popular discussion. I think Xen in Dom0 is over hyped. We don''t have ESX in the kernel. Anyway a shift in thinking is in order. If you want to use "off the shelf Linux" you can use the CentOS5x series as Dom0 (and upgrade Xen using the gitco repos) or use Suse as Dom0. I think the future is just using a Xen Distro like XCP or Xenserver. The Dom0 is a "product" as apposed to being Linux with an added package. It would have been nice to have Xen in the mainline kernel and it still may happen but I predict it will only happen when it doesn''t matter anymore. Call my cynical. I''m probably migrating all of my CentOS/Xen 3.4 machines to XCP in the future. Grant McWilliams _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 07:02:37 -0700 <grantmasterflash@gmail.com> wrote:>This has been a popular discussion. I think Xen in Dom0 is over hyped. We don''t have ESX in the kernel. Anyway a shift in thinking is in order. If you want to use "off the shelf Linux" you can use the CentOS5x series as Dom0 (and upgrade Xen using the gitco repos) or use Suse as Dom0. I think the future is just using a Xen Distro like XCP or Xenserver. The Dom0 is a "product" as apposed to being Linux with an added package. It would have been nice to have Xen in the mainline kernel and it still may happen but I predict it will only happen when it doesn''t matter anymore. Call my cynical.>I''m probably migrating all of my CentOS/Xen 3.4 machines to XCP in the future.>Grant McWilliamsSo was XCP built of of Linux from scratch? If that is the case then the xen "product" is still a form of Linux is it not? And I find you point with have Xen in mainline funny but true as well. -M _________________________________________________________________ Learn more ways to connect with your buddies now http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9734388 _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Friday 02 July 2010 10:44:46 Jukka Kommeri wrote:> Hello, > > I have been using Xen for many years now. I have mainly used it on > Ubuntu and Debian, but I have also tried it on CentOS 5. Most of my > machines have been installed a few years back. Then there seemed to be > good packages for most distributions and a lot of nice examples on how > to get it working. > > Now that I am trying to install a new server with the latest version of > my favorite distribution, I am having a lot of problems. Not just that > they have started using an annoying version of grub, but also because > the packaged Xen kernel does not seem to work. > > So, I would like to ask what is the future of Xen in the Linux > distributions and which one should I start using as my Xen dom0? > > Best regards, > Jukka Kommeri > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >RedHat''s trategy is clear: phase out Xen and phase in KVM. Centos will follow obviously. Haw fast this process will take place is nothing to worry about if you ask me. Unless you are not ready to change at any point of course. B. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 7:39 AM, Mike Viau <viaum@sheridanc.on.ca> wrote:> >On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 07:02:37 -0700 <grantmasterflash@gmail.com> wrote: > > >This has been a popular discussion. I think Xen in Dom0 is over hyped. We > don''t have ESX in the kernel. Anyway a shift in thinking is in order. If you > want to use "off the shelf Linux" you can use the CentOS5x series as Dom0 > (and upgrade Xen using the gitco repos) or use Suse as Dom0. I think the > future is just using a Xen Distro like XCP or Xenserver. The Dom0 is a > "product" as apposed to being Linux with an added package. It would have > been nice to have Xen in the mainline kernel and it still may happen but I > predict it will only happen when it doesn''t matter anymore. Call my cynical. > > >I''m probably migrating all of my CentOS/Xen 3.4 machines to XCP in the > future. > > >Grant McWilliams > > > So was XCP built of of Linux from scratch? If that is the case then the xen > "product" is still a form of Linux is it not? > > And I find you point with have Xen in mainline funny but true as well. > > > -M >XCP is based on CentOS/RHEL. It''s all Linux but instead of thinking that it''s some package you install ie. KVM think of XCP as a product (an OS) you install to get Xen Virtualization. You don''t expect to have an rpm that will get you ESXi do you? We don''t have that many Dom0''s in relation to DomUs so it makes sense that you don''t think of them the same way. You install XCP on all of your physical machines and then use whatever distro you want for DomU. I think virtually any Linux can be a PV DomU at this point and any x86 OS can be an HVM domU so that''s not really an issue. Grant McWilliams Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I''ll use Windows." Now they have two problems. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 9:39 PM, Mike Viau <viaum@sheridanc.on.ca> wrote:>>On Fri, 2 Jul 2010 07:02:37 -0700 <grantmasterflash@gmail.com> wrote:>> I think the >> future is just using a Xen Distro like XCP or Xenserver. The Dom0 is a >> "product" as apposed to being Linux with an added package.In my place, we''ve invested considerable amount of time maintaining our own "local" version of RHEL, with custom packages added to make it easier for us to manage. Not to mention building sysadmin capability. In that environment, it''s much easier for us to think of Xen as simply another package that you can install with yum. That way we can leverage existing resource and skills. We even have our own version of Xen 4 and 2.6.34 dom0 kernel (for dev purposes), also installable via yum. Yes, RHEL6 won''t have Xen dom0, but RH will still support it for the length of RHEL5 lifetime. And it''s been great so far.>>I''m probably migrating all of my CentOS/Xen 3.4 machines to XCP in the >> future.I had a bad initial impression of XCP. Perhaps it''s because I tried the early 0.1 release. Let me know when you finally use it in production environment; that might be a good time for me to try XCP again.> So was XCP built of of Linux from scratch? If that is the case then the xen > "product" is still a form of Linux is it not?It''s based on Centos. -- Fajar _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 07/02/2010 10:50 AM, Bart Coninckx wrote:> > RedHat''s trategy is clear: phase out Xen and phase in KVM. Centos will follow > obviously. Haw fast this process will take place is nothing to worry about if > you ask me. Unless you are not ready to change at any point of course. > > B. > >I see this a huge mistake on the part of RedHat. Only Type-1, bare-metal virtualization, such as Xen makes sense for enterprise deployments. Sure, if you want to provide the Linux desktop user with some virtualization then KVM might make sense. But RedHat is losing ground in the desktop arena already so why bother. You have major players such as Amazon that currently use RedHat and Xen bare-metal virtualization in their public cloud offering. You have complementary private cloud technologies such as Eucalyptus which also support Xen so you can mirror Amazon. And I see that trend growing. Once a distro like RedHat can use a dom0/domU shared kernel (which hasn''t been since F8 and probably drove them to purchase Qumranet) then Xen usage for even the casual desktop user becomes much easier. The new pv_ops kernels are now providing just that possibility once again. Gerry _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> -----Original Message----- > From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users- > bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of Bart Coninckx > Sent: Friday, July 02, 2010 10:50 AM > To: xen-users@lists.xensource.com > Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Xen in Linux distributions > > RedHat''s trategy is clear: phase out Xen and phase in KVM. Centos willfollow> obviously. Haw fast this process will take place is nothing to worryabout if> you ask me. Unless you are not ready to change at any point of course.Indeed. I''ve been actively using Xen for the past 3 years, and hearing about its "imminent death" for about 2.5 years. We are currently using CentOS but not all of its virtualization features. In particular I haven''t embraced libvirt because it seems like a pointless layer on top of the "xm" commands we know so well. Bootstrapping a new CentOS image as a domU involves a few silly hurdles but even that is no big deal. I''m not going to evangelize any virtualization package to anyone. That said, I''ll mention what I liked about Xen. Xen changes the philosophy of how we look at operating systems. No longer does the OS kernel need to control all hardware or have a full set of hardware device drivers. That lowers the difficulty of implementing a new kernel, such as MiniOS, because it does not need to be concerned with hardware details. The hardware has been abstracted by the hypervisor. And this opens the door to new experiments in memory management, process scheduling, etc. HVM feels like a step backwards, but necessary for support of Windows etc. Full hardware virtualization simply isn''t interesting to me because it won''t change the OS--it is designed rather to make the virtualized OS look and behave exactly like the bare metal OS. With that said, KVM may become the best hardware virtualization package out there and compete head-to-head with the likes of VMWare, but it still won''t have what Xen has today. -Jeff _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Fri, Jul 2, 2010 at 8:12 AM, Gerry Reno <greno@verizon.net> wrote:> On 07/02/2010 10:50 AM, Bart Coninckx wrote: > >> >> RedHat''s trategy is clear: phase out Xen and phase in KVM. Centos will >> follow >> obviously. Haw fast this process will take place is nothing to worry about >> if >> you ask me. Unless you are not ready to change at any point of course. >> >> B. >> >> >> > > I see this a huge mistake on the part of RedHat. Only Type-1, bare-metal > virtualization, such as Xen makes sense for enterprise deployments. Sure, > if you want to provide the Linux desktop user with some virtualization then > KVM might make sense. But RedHat is losing ground in the desktop arena > already so why bother. You have major players such as Amazon that currently > use RedHat and Xen bare-metal virtualization in their public cloud offering. > You have complementary private cloud technologies such as Eucalyptus which > also support Xen so you can mirror Amazon. And I see that trend growing. > Once a distro like RedHat can use a dom0/domU shared kernel (which hasn''t > been since F8 and probably drove them to purchase Qumranet) then Xen usage > for even the casual desktop user becomes much easier. The new pv_ops > kernels are now providing just that possibility once again. > > Gerry > >I don''t think KVM will have a technical disadvantage in the long run no matter how many "buzz words" we throw around and it will be integrated but currently it doesn''t do what Xen does nor is it as fast in most instances. Xen will be moving toward hybrid virtualization where everything thats faster with full virt will be fully virtualized and everything else paravirtualized. This will mean it will look like HVM in most cases. This is different from how KVM and HVM work now where a few things are hardware virtualized, most emulated and a couple paravirtualized. Ultimately in the end the hypervisor won''t matter. Already we are choosing a hypervisor based on management tools. Grant McWilliams Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I''ll use Windows." Now they have two problems. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> >>I''m probably migrating all of my CentOS/Xen 3.4 machines to XCP in the > >> future. > > I had a bad initial impression of XCP. Perhaps it''s because I tried > the early 0.1 release. Let me know when you finally use it in > production environment; that might be a good time for me to try XCP > again. > > > So was XCP built of of Linux from scratch? If that is the case then the > xen > > "product" is still a form of Linux is it not? > > It''s based on Centos. > > -- > Fajar > >I''ll let you know. It seemed like this list changed to an XCP list for about a month and then went back to talking about open source Xen. I think a lot of people went through this process. Currently XCP won''t install on my Phenom x6 test machine. I have to try a newer version. Grant McWilliams Some people, when confronted with a problem, think "I know, I''ll use Windows." Now they have two problems. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users