Peter Schuller wrote :> > I use it a lot, but I still get people mailing me > > .gifs and even worse .jpgs (of things like text!!!) > > That's okay let them. > > JPEG worse than GIF? What are you on? :) At least JPEG supports more than > 256 colors and you don't need to pay $100000 (or whatever) to write an > encoder...Uh, should I send you a GIF and JPEG version of the same picture, where the GIF is both smaller AND better ? JPEG is for natural pictures ( like photos ) , whil GIF is for "technical" pictures ( text and object that have simple color, without gradients ). JPEG beats GIF on natural, GIF beats JPEG on technical. ... and PNG is better than GIF :-) -- David Balazic -------------- "Be excellent to each other." - Bill & Ted - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
I think things got all confused along the line. What I originally meant was that people don't use PNG quite often despite the fact it is an amazing format. Probably from lack of knowledge, (they might not have heard of it etc) but I love PNG and use it an awful lot. I then kind of got side tracked, I get kind of annoyed when people send me JPEG's of text because JPEG is very bad at handling text, it makes it go all fuzzy and nasty. Of course the best format for text, is a .txt file! Or if it is a HTML page, then a .HTM file! As you all point out I find getting a .JPG of screenshots and the like worse than getting a gif, because I can convert the gif to a nice PNG (Yay!) and quitely send it on it's way. Once it's a JPG theres not a lot I can do because JPEG is a lossy format and I've lost all the information. You can of course make the files less lossy (although the kind of people sending me jpegs probably don't know that anyway) but then you run into the problem that although jpegs support millions of colours, they ONLY support millions of colours, so then you end up with pointlessly big files (at least for things like screenshots and drawings). Lets face it PNG is a wonderful format! I think other people will use PNG more and more too, but it will take time. One thing I should point out about JPEG's, much as I love them and use them lots for photo's and other fun, we should all be aware that they ARE covered by patents, it's just that at the moment the people who own those patents are being nice and letting people have fair use...at the moment... http://www.jpeg.org/FCD15444-1.htm Also I think the Unisys patent covers both encoding AND decoding of gifs. Apologies to anyone who couldn't follow my bizzare drifting to related subjects, and thankyou to all those who knew what I meant! (That always makes me feel better and I know I'm in the company of sharp people!) :) love Freya --- David Balazic <david.balazic@uni-mb.si> wrote:> Peter Schuller wrote : > > > > I use it a lot, but I still get people mailing > me > > > .gifs and even worse .jpgs (of things like > text!!!) > > > That's okay let them. > > > > JPEG worse than GIF? What are you on? :) At least > JPEG supports more than > > 256 colors and you don't need to pay $100000 (or > whatever) to write an > > encoder... > > Uh, should I send you a GIF and JPEG version of the > same picture, > where the GIF is both smaller AND better ? > > JPEG is for natural pictures ( like photos ) , > whil GIF is for "technical" pictures ( text and > object that have > simple color, without gradients ). > > JPEG beats GIF on natural, > GIF beats JPEG on technical. > > ... and PNG is better than GIF :-) > > > -- > David Balazic > -------------- > "Be excellent to each other." - Bill & Ted > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - > > --- >8 ---- > List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ > Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ > To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to > 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' > containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. > No subject is needed. > Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will beignored/filtered. __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/ --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Karol Pietrzak
2001-Jun-29 10:45 UTC
[vorbis] YAMVVFF - Yet Another MP3 versus Vorbis Fist Fight
On 29 Jun 2001, David Balazic wrote:> JPEG is for natural pictures ( like photos ) , > whil GIF is for "technical" pictures ( text and object that have > simple color, without gradients ). > > JPEG beats GIF on natural, > GIF beats JPEG on technical. > > ... and PNG is better than GIF :-)PNG, for example, if better than GIF _in all aspects_. PNG supports 2-dimensional interlace, thousands of levels of transparency, and 64-bit images. Not only that, but it has better compression and is not patented. This brings up the same question between Ogg Vorbis and MP3 (specifically the LAME encoder). As comparisons / reviews between these two formats have started, Ogg Vorbis has been able to much better able to reproduce high / low frequencies than MP3. At that point in the game however (beta4), MP3 has been slightly better at medium frequencies (if I remember correctly, I'm getting my info from a DigitalEar.com review). That has and will no doubtedly improve over time, but does anyone ever see MP3 still being widely-used for a specific purpose because of its superiority in that area? -- noodlez: Karol Pietrzak PGP KeyID: 0x3A1446A0 --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
David Balazic a écrit:> Uh, should I send you a GIF and JPEG version of the same picture, > where the GIF is both smaller AND better ? > > JPEG is for natural pictures ( like photos ) , > whil GIF is for "technical" pictures ( text and object that have > simple color, without gradients ). > > JPEG beats GIF on natural, > GIF beats JPEG on technical. > > ... and PNG is better than GIF :-)Where it is better than GIF? It is lossless too? Smaller? What about JPEG 2000? Lossless JPEG? --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ Ogg project homepage: http://www.xiph.org/ogg/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'vorbis-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.