thr3ads.net - samba - NT Crashes when doing large network file Xfers (was Re: NT crashes during smbtar) [Jun 1998]

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Rick Flower

1998-Jun-30 15:53 UTC

NT Crashes when doing large network file Xfers (was Re: NT crashes during smbtar)

Ok.. Just for the record, I STAND CORRECTED!  The problem does
appear to be NT.. The thing that irritated me was that nobody was
interested in giving any backup data!  Everyone just wanted to blindly
admit that it must be NT. Ok.. Enuf bitching.. On to the better stuff...

Anyway, David Mansfield and I are trying to narrow down the machine
configurations where this happens.. Currently, we've found that even
without a Samba server in the picture that NT's networking subsystem
will crash (leaving the rest of the OS working fine) when copying large
files (around 40mb) from one NT box to another.. This leads me to
wonder why this information isn't commonly known (ie. it isn't in the NT
FAQ, etc).  Has anyone reported this BUG to Microsloth?  Are there
any known workarounds?  Could it be a bug in the NIC if the only NICs
effected are 3com cards?  Currently our failure machines are running
3com 3c595's in 100mb mode.

So, if you see the NT network subsystem go DOA on you, can you tell
us what network card you are running along with other vital stats (ie.
10mb / 100mb mode, full/half duplex, make/model of NIC, NT version,
is the local subnet router in full or half duplex, etc.).

Thanks!

-- Rick

P.S. I've CC'd this message over to the Amanda mailing-list just for
       those other users that may not be aware of this conversation..
       Please post any followups on the samba mailing list if possible.
-----Original Message-----
From: David Mansfield <david@cobite.com>
To: Multiple recipients of list <samba@samba.anu.edu.au>
Date: Monday, June 29, 1998 3:03 PM
Subject: Re: NT crashes during smbtar

>On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Rick Flower wrote:
>
>> David,
>>
>> You are not the only one that sees this problem.. I posted another
message>> about this approx. 1 month ago (or less).  We see it here frequently
using>> Samba in conjunction with Amanda.  All of our machines are NT 4.0 with
SP3>> (or in some cases SP2).  Everything you say it true -- no networking
layer.>> I've talked to one other individual that saw this problem.  I
suspect
that>> if and
>> when more people start seeing this problem, then and only then will it
get>> addressed...  For now, nobody appears to be too interested in finding
out
>> WHY it happens..  Like I wrote in my last message, I had some idiot
reply
>> to my initial message saying that it must be NT's fault!  Yeah
right!
>>
>> -- Rick
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: David Mansfield <david@cobite.com>
>> To: Multiple recipients of list <samba@samba.anu.edu.au>
>> Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 9:37 PM
>> Subject: NT crashes during smbtar
>>
>>
>> >I have been regularly crashing my NT boxen trying to back them up
via an
>> >smbtar (smbclient).  The crash is not complete - the network layer
on NT
>> >goes away.  You can still operate the console, but no net traffic. 
This
>> >is NT workstation and server 4.0 with sp3.  The UNIX samba server
is
>> >Solaris 2.5 with the latest samba version (1.9.18p8?) also with
other
>> >samba versions.
>> >
>> >I tried updating the NT tcpip stack with the teardrop fix (hoping
that
>> >someone would have found this little bug) but no go.  The machine
has a
>> >3c595 NIC in case that matters.
>> >
>> >I don't THINK the machine crashes except when being accessed
like this
via>> >smbclient, although it did crash once when copying from this
machine to
a>> >samba server via a third party nt workstation (does this copy go
through
>> >the intermediate machine or is it smart enough to copy direct?)
>> >
>> >Any clues?
>> >
>> >Please cc direct to me in case I miss responses in the digest.
>> >Thanks.
>> >
>> >*==============================*
>> >| David Mansfield              |
>> >| david@cobite.com             |
>> >|                              |
>> >| (212) 536-9115               |
>> >*==============================*
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>*==============================*
>| David Mansfield              |
>| david@cobite.com             |
>|                              |
>| (212) 536-9115               |
>*==============================*
>

Ernie Oporto

1998-Jun-30 16:28 UTC

head link

NT Crashes when doing large network file Xfers (was Re: NT crashes during smbtar)

This is a common problem for us.  During the winter months, folks will often
work at home, and will copy large installation folders (not a single large
file, but many files constituting a large transfer). Over a 28/33/56k
connection, this was known to take close to 8 hours on some systems.
Somewhere during that time (it was random, but reproducible), the NT
server's networking subsystem would fail.  The server would stay up, and act
as if all were right in the world, but things were not so.

We also have 100BaseT 3COM 3c595 cards in those servers running full-duplex,
and were going to ditch the NICs soon =).  We originally thought it was our
Cabletron MMAC+ hub, which gave us some trouble at the time, but has since
been very good to us.  The port the server is connected to is running at
100BaseT.  The local router is only 10BaseT.  It's definitely the NT Server.
NT Workstation has never displayed this behavior.  What to do?

-Ernie

http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Park/9276
   _____/           ____         /        / Ernie "Shokk"
Oporto-SysAdmin
_____      ____    /    \    __ /     __ /  Mentor Graphics Corporation
\______/ __    __ \______/ __  \___ __  \___  Ernie_Oporto@MentorG.Com
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Rick Flower [mailto:Rick.Flower@trw.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 30, 1998 11:53 AM
> To: Multiple recipients of list
> Cc: Amanda-Users
> Subject: NT Crashes when doing large network file Xfers (was Re: NT
> crashes during smbtar)
>
>
> Ok.. Just for the record, I STAND CORRECTED!  The problem does
> appear to be NT.. The thing that irritated me was that nobody was
> interested in giving any backup data!  Everyone just wanted to blindly
> admit that it must be NT. Ok.. Enuf bitching.. On to the better stuff...
>
> Anyway, David Mansfield and I are trying to narrow down the machine
> configurations where this happens.. Currently, we've found that even
> without a Samba server in the picture that NT's networking subsystem
> will crash (leaving the rest of the OS working fine) when copying large
> files (around 40mb) from one NT box to another.. This leads me to
> wonder why this information isn't commonly known (ie. it isn't in
the NT
> FAQ, etc).  Has anyone reported this BUG to Microsloth?  Are there
> any known workarounds?  Could it be a bug in the NIC if the only NICs
> effected are 3com cards?  Currently our failure machines are running
> 3com 3c595's in 100mb mode.
>
> So, if you see the NT network subsystem go DOA on you, can you tell
> us what network card you are running along with other vital stats (ie.
> 10mb / 100mb mode, full/half duplex, make/model of NIC, NT version,
> is the local subnet router in full or half duplex, etc.).
>
> Thanks!
>
> -- Rick
>
> P.S. I've CC'd this message over to the Amanda mailing-list just
for
>        those other users that may not be aware of this conversation..
>        Please post any followups on the samba mailing list if possible.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Mansfield <david@cobite.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <samba@samba.anu.edu.au>
> Date: Monday, June 29, 1998 3:03 PM
> Subject: Re: NT crashes during smbtar
>
>
> >On Mon, 29 Jun 1998, Rick Flower wrote:
> >
> >> David,
> >>
> >> You are not the only one that sees this problem.. I posted another
> message
> >> about this approx. 1 month ago (or less).  We see it here
frequently
> using
> >> Samba in conjunction with Amanda.  All of our machines are NT 4.0
with
> SP3
> >> (or in some cases SP2).  Everything you say it true -- no
networking
> layer.
> >> I've talked to one other individual that saw this problem.  I
suspect
> that
> >> if and
> >> when more people start seeing this problem, then and only then
will it
> get
> >> addressed...  For now, nobody appears to be too interested in
> finding out
> >> WHY it happens..  Like I wrote in my last message, I had some
> idiot reply
> >> to my initial message saying that it must be NT's fault!  Yeah
right!
> >>
> >> -- Rick
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: David Mansfield <david@cobite.com>
> >> To: Multiple recipients of list <samba@samba.anu.edu.au>
> >> Date: Thursday, June 25, 1998 9:37 PM
> >> Subject: NT crashes during smbtar
> >>
> >>
> >> >I have been regularly crashing my NT boxen trying to back
> them up via an
> >> >smbtar (smbclient).  The crash is not complete - the network
> layer on NT
> >> >goes away.  You can still operate the console, but no net
> traffic.  This
> >> >is NT workstation and server 4.0 with sp3.  The UNIX samba
server is
> >> >Solaris 2.5 with the latest samba version (1.9.18p8?) also
with other
> >> >samba versions.
> >> >
> >> >I tried updating the NT tcpip stack with the teardrop fix
(hoping that
> >> >someone would have found this little bug) but no go.  The
> machine has a
> >> >3c595 NIC in case that matters.
> >> >
> >> >I don't THINK the machine crashes except when being
accessed like this
> via
> >> >smbclient, although it did crash once when copying from this
> machine to
> a
> >> >samba server via a third party nt workstation (does this copy
> go through
> >> >the intermediate machine or is it smart enough to copy
direct?)
> >> >
> >> >Any clues?
> >> >
> >> >Please cc direct to me in case I miss responses in the digest.
> >> >Thanks.
> >> >
> >> >*==============================*
> >> >| David Mansfield              |
> >> >| david@cobite.com             |
> >> >|                              |
> >> >| (212) 536-9115               |
> >> >*==============================*
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >
> >*==============================*
> >| David Mansfield              |
> >| david@cobite.com             |
> >|                              |
> >| (212) 536-9115               |
> >*==============================*
> >
>

Barney Dalton

1998-Jul-01 02:23 UTC

head link

NT Crashes when doing large network file Xfers (was Re: NT crashes during smbtar)

On Tue, 30 Jun 1998, Rick Flower wrote:> So, if you see the NT network subsystem go DOA on you, can you tell
> us what network card you are running along with other vital stats (ie.
> 10mb / 100mb mode, full/half duplex, make/model of NIC, NT version,
> is the local subnet router in full or half duplex, etc.).
We have the same problem, I find it impossible to back up our http tree
over the network - webserver and networking die half way through, this
happens for both a samba client and another NT machine. Using NT server
4.0 SP3 and a DEC PCI ethernet DECchip 21040 card, 10mb.

Unfortunatley this machine is our main webserver so I haven't dared do
much investigation. Glad to see its not just me with this problem

barney 

/**********************************************************/
/ Barney Dalton                                            /
/ Computer support  support@mech.uwa.edu.au                /
/ Personal email    barneyd@cyllene.uwa.edu.au             /
/ Work Phone        (61) (8) 93803058 or 93803051          /            
/ Twist my arm :    http://telerobot.mech.uwa.edu.au       /
/**********************************************************/

Stefan Mähler

1998-Jul-01 09:48 UTC

head link

NT Crashes when doing large network file Xfers (was Re: NT crashes during smbtar)

Rick Flower wrote:
[...] >  Has anyone reported this BUG to Microsloth?  Are there
> any known workarounds?  Could it be a bug in the NIC if the only NICs
> effected are 3com cards?  Currently our failure machines are running
> 3com 3c595's in 100mb mode.
> 
> So, if you see the NT network subsystem go DOA on you, can you tell
> us what network card you are running along with other vital stats (ie.
> 10mb / 100mb mode, full/half duplex, make/model of NIC, NT version,
> is the local subnet router in full or half duplex, etc.).
> 
[...]> 
We found out, that it must be a problem between MS an 3com. We are using
the 3com 3c905 TX cards. Under Linunx these cards are running. But under
MS 95 and NT we had troubles all the time. No matter if you are copying
MS->MS or MS->Samba. All files bigger than 50MB crashing the system :-(
Two weeks ago we downloaded the new driver disks from 3com's website.
Since that day I didn't have a crash again. Beside this, it seems to
be mutch faster too.

Have a nice day!
Stefan

-- 
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Stefan M?hler (technical director)         @ computational design gmbh
maehler@co-de.de                                     wuppertal/germany
http://www.co-de.de                                  ++49 202 2442 986
----------------------------------------------------------------------
  Date: 07/01/98
Notice: do you know what we are doing? http://www.co-de.de
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