I have to say... since it''s bugged me _many_ times, that i *hate* these text boxes with the sliders that are being used to display text (for instance, on Rails documentation pages... but it''s not just Rails). Very often you can''t really read the text because it goes past the right border of the box. So you have to go to the bottom of the box to move the slider to the right, move back up (if its a tall box) read a litte, move slider back so you can read the start of the line. In other words, it''s totally ridiculous and unacceptable trying to read something like this. What i always do now (as by far the easiest thing) is cut the entire contents of the box out and paste it into emacs so that i can actually read it. Here''s just one example of *many* of this kind of thing. Does anyone think this is even 1/10 user-friendly? http://dev.rubyonrails.com/file/trunk/actionwebservice/README?rev=672 craig
I agree with you - it is pretty annoying sometimes (only when the code is long and it goes past the right edge.), but honestly, since these boxes are usually used to display code, and code needs to be formatted properly to be read right, its kinda hard to do it in any other way. One way would be to format your code so that it uses less horizontal space (warp at 80 cols.) But this is definitely an interesting problem and my creative juices are currently flowing to come up with an elegant solution. I''m sure someone (maybe even myself) will use some css/javascript magic to make these text boxes display properly w/o scrolling. Would you rather have popups? :-) On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 09:45:41 -0500, craig duncan <craig-duncan-ihVZJaRskl1bRRN4PJnoQQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> I have to say... since it''s bugged me _many_ times, that i *hate* these text boxes > with the sliders that are being used to display text (for instance, on Rails > documentation pages... but it''s not just Rails). Very often you can''t really read > the text because it goes past the right border of the box. So you have to go to the > bottom of the box to move the slider to the right, move back up (if its a tall box) > read a litte, move slider back so you can read the start of the line. In other > words, it''s totally ridiculous and unacceptable trying to read something like this. > > What i always do now (as by far the easiest thing) is cut the entire contents of the > box out and paste it into emacs so that i can actually read it. > > Here''s just one example of *many* of this kind of thing. Does anyone think this is > even 1/10 user-friendly? > > http://dev.rubyonrails.com/file/trunk/actionwebservice/README?rev=672 > > craig > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails >-- - Ramin
Ramin wrote:> I agree with you - it is pretty annoying sometimes (only when the code > is long and it goes past the right edge.),IMO, it''s annoying even if the code is short but goes past the right edge.> but honestly, since these > boxes are usually used to display code, and code needs to be formatted > properly to be read right, its kinda hard to do it in any other way.Which is better: that the code wraps, or that it disappears (off the right edge)? (Arguable to me... both are sub-optimal.)> One way would be to format your code so that it uses less horizontal > space (warp at 80 cols.)I''ve seen lots of boxes containing code where the box width is maybe only 40 columns or so. So code that would have displayed fine otherwise is now a pita to read.> But this is definitely an interesting problem and my creative juices > are currently flowing to come up with an elegant solution. I''m sure > someone (maybe even myself) will use some css/javascript magic to make > these text boxes display properly w/o scrolling. > > Would you rather have popups? :-)Yes, if the box was wide enough to display everything. Definitely. It''s just a bad design decision to me... putting code into a narrow box so that it can''t be read without scrolling sideways. In this kind of circumstance, i think it would be much better to have the width of the text box be as much as needed to display the entire line... extending all the way to the edge of the browser window (and beyond) if necessary. If it''s wider than the remainder of the browser window (rare), it''s still not too difficult to scroll the browser window (whereas it can be a pita to scroll the text box if it extends far down the page). I suppose it depends on what the purpose of the text box is. If it''s to actually read the code (or whatever) as it appears on the page, then a lot of people just don''t seem to care that you really can''t very easily. If it''s just a container to store the text in a form that doesn''t get messed with by the browser then a) i suppose it does that and b) it''d be _better_ done with an unformatted block. Wouldn''t it? I just haven''t seen the point. It''s seemed to me like people implement this kind of thing because they think its nifty technology and it actually works like crap... from the reader''s standpoint. Yes, i''m an unhappy, disaffected person, prone to strong and didactic opinions. :-) craig
Well, if it bothers you that much (and others, I''m sure) then its something needs to be fixed. I think the main reason people use those scolling boxes is because they dont wanna make their page too large and would rather have the code are scrollable. Not a good solution cause it really does make it hard to read the code. Here''s what I have in mind.. leave the scrolling boxes as they are and simple put a little link (or an image link) that will either maximize the area or open it up in a new win/div set to the full width of the code block. This should satisfy both cases. I''m gonna try and put something together right now and see how it works. I''ll keep you posted. On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:57:07 -0500, craig duncan <craig-duncan-ihVZJaRskl1bRRN4PJnoQQ@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Ramin wrote: > > I agree with you - it is pretty annoying sometimes (only when the code > > is long and it goes past the right edge.), > > IMO, it''s annoying even if the code is short but goes past the right edge. > > > but honestly, since these > > boxes are usually used to display code, and code needs to be formatted > > properly to be read right, its kinda hard to do it in any other way. > > Which is better: that the code wraps, or that it disappears (off the right edge)? > (Arguable to me... both are sub-optimal.) > > > One way would be to format your code so that it uses less horizontal > > space (warp at 80 cols.) > > I''ve seen lots of boxes containing code where the box width is maybe only 40 columns > or so. So code that would have displayed fine otherwise is now a pita to read. > > > But this is definitely an interesting problem and my creative juices > > are currently flowing to come up with an elegant solution. I''m sure > > someone (maybe even myself) will use some css/javascript magic to make > > these text boxes display properly w/o scrolling. > > > > Would you rather have popups? :-) > > Yes, if the box was wide enough to display everything. Definitely. > > It''s just a bad design decision to me... putting code into a narrow box so that it > can''t be read without scrolling sideways. In this kind of circumstance, i think it > would be much better to have the width of the text box be as much as needed to > display the entire line... extending all the way to the edge of the browser window > (and beyond) if necessary. If it''s wider than the remainder of the browser window > (rare), it''s still not too difficult to scroll the browser window (whereas it can be > a pita to scroll the text box if it extends far down the page). > > I suppose it depends on what the purpose of the text box is. If it''s to actually > read the code (or whatever) as it appears on the page, then a lot of people just > don''t seem to care that you really can''t very easily. If it''s just a container to > store the text in a form that doesn''t get messed with by the browser then a) i > suppose it does that and b) it''d be _better_ done with an unformatted block. > Wouldn''t it? > > I just haven''t seen the point. It''s seemed to me like people implement this kind of > thing because they think its nifty technology and it actually works like crap... from > the reader''s standpoint. Yes, i''m an unhappy, disaffected person, prone to strong > and didactic opinions. :-) > > craig >-- - Ramin
Ok, so I put something together pretty quickly.. it works so I thought I''d post it here. I hope the mailing list allows for file attachments. Its just a simple html file that demostrates my solution to those annoying scrollable text boxes of code. I should really start a blog and put up my work like everyone else. =] On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:47:30 -0500, Ramin <i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Well, if it bothers you that much (and others, I''m sure) then its > something needs to be fixed. I think the main reason people use those > scolling boxes is because they dont wanna make their page too large > and would rather have the code are scrollable. Not a good solution > cause it really does make it hard to read the code. > > Here''s what I have in mind.. leave the scrolling boxes as they are and > simple put a little link (or an image link) that will either maximize > the area or open it up in a new win/div set to the full width of the > code block. This should satisfy both cases. I''m gonna try and put > something together right now and see how it works. I''ll keep you > posted. > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:57:07 -0500, craig duncan > <craig-duncan-ihVZJaRskl1bRRN4PJnoQQ@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Ramin wrote: > > > I agree with you - it is pretty annoying sometimes (only when the code > > > is long and it goes past the right edge.), > > > > IMO, it''s annoying even if the code is short but goes past the right edge. > > > > > but honestly, since these > > > boxes are usually used to display code, and code needs to be formatted > > > properly to be read right, its kinda hard to do it in any other way. > > > > Which is better: that the code wraps, or that it disappears (off the right edge)? > > (Arguable to me... both are sub-optimal.) > > > > > One way would be to format your code so that it uses less horizontal > > > space (warp at 80 cols.) > > > > I''ve seen lots of boxes containing code where the box width is maybe only 40 columns > > or so. So code that would have displayed fine otherwise is now a pita to read. > > > > > But this is definitely an interesting problem and my creative juices > > > are currently flowing to come up with an elegant solution. I''m sure > > > someone (maybe even myself) will use some css/javascript magic to make > > > these text boxes display properly w/o scrolling. > > > > > > Would you rather have popups? :-) > > > > Yes, if the box was wide enough to display everything. Definitely. > > > > It''s just a bad design decision to me... putting code into a narrow box so that it > > can''t be read without scrolling sideways. In this kind of circumstance, i think it > > would be much better to have the width of the text box be as much as needed to > > display the entire line... extending all the way to the edge of the browser window > > (and beyond) if necessary. If it''s wider than the remainder of the browser window > > (rare), it''s still not too difficult to scroll the browser window (whereas it can be > > a pita to scroll the text box if it extends far down the page). > > > > I suppose it depends on what the purpose of the text box is. If it''s to actually > > read the code (or whatever) as it appears on the page, then a lot of people just > > don''t seem to care that you really can''t very easily. If it''s just a container to > > store the text in a form that doesn''t get messed with by the browser then a) i > > suppose it does that and b) it''d be _better_ done with an unformatted block. > > Wouldn''t it? > > > > I just haven''t seen the point. It''s seemed to me like people implement this kind of > > thing because they think its nifty technology and it actually works like crap... from > > the reader''s standpoint. Yes, i''m an unhappy, disaffected person, prone to strong > > and didactic opinions. :-) > > > > craig > > > > -- > - Ramin >-- - Ramin _______________________________________________ Rails mailing list Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails
That''s pretty sweet! Works in FireFox but is very weird in Safari. Yeah... Safari''s JavaScript engine leaves much to be desired... On Mar 31, 2005 4:32 PM, Ramin <i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> Ok, so I put something together pretty quickly.. it works so I thought > I''d post it here. I hope the mailing list allows for file attachments. > Its just a simple html file that demostrates my solution to those > annoying scrollable text boxes of code. > > I should really start a blog and put up my work like everyone else. =] > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:47:30 -0500, Ramin <i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Well, if it bothers you that much (and others, I''m sure) then its > > something needs to be fixed. I think the main reason people use those > > scolling boxes is because they dont wanna make their page too large > > and would rather have the code are scrollable. Not a good solution > > cause it really does make it hard to read the code. > > > > Here''s what I have in mind.. leave the scrolling boxes as they are and > > simple put a little link (or an image link) that will either maximize > > the area or open it up in a new win/div set to the full width of the > > code block. This should satisfy both cases. I''m gonna try and put > > something together right now and see how it works. I''ll keep you > > posted. > > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:57:07 -0500, craig duncan > > <craig-duncan-ihVZJaRskl1bRRN4PJnoQQ@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > Ramin wrote: > > > > I agree with you - it is pretty annoying sometimes (only when the code > > > > is long and it goes past the right edge.), > > > > > > IMO, it''s annoying even if the code is short but goes past the right edge. > > > > > > > but honestly, since these > > > > boxes are usually used to display code, and code needs to be formatted > > > > properly to be read right, its kinda hard to do it in any other way. > > > > > > Which is better: that the code wraps, or that it disappears (off the right edge)? > > > (Arguable to me... both are sub-optimal.) > > > > > > > One way would be to format your code so that it uses less horizontal > > > > space (warp at 80 cols.) > > > > > > I''ve seen lots of boxes containing code where the box width is maybe only 40 columns > > > or so. So code that would have displayed fine otherwise is now a pita to read. > > > > > > > But this is definitely an interesting problem and my creative juices > > > > are currently flowing to come up with an elegant solution. I''m sure > > > > someone (maybe even myself) will use some css/javascript magic to make > > > > these text boxes display properly w/o scrolling. > > > > > > > > Would you rather have popups? :-) > > > > > > Yes, if the box was wide enough to display everything. Definitely. > > > > > > It''s just a bad design decision to me... putting code into a narrow box so that it > > > can''t be read without scrolling sideways. In this kind of circumstance, i think it > > > would be much better to have the width of the text box be as much as needed to > > > display the entire line... extending all the way to the edge of the browser window > > > (and beyond) if necessary. If it''s wider than the remainder of the browser window > > > (rare), it''s still not too difficult to scroll the browser window (whereas it can be > > > a pita to scroll the text box if it extends far down the page). > > > > > > I suppose it depends on what the purpose of the text box is. If it''s to actually > > > read the code (or whatever) as it appears on the page, then a lot of people just > > > don''t seem to care that you really can''t very easily. If it''s just a container to > > > store the text in a form that doesn''t get messed with by the browser then a) i > > > suppose it does that and b) it''d be _better_ done with an unformatted block. > > > Wouldn''t it? > > > > > > I just haven''t seen the point. It''s seemed to me like people implement this kind of > > > thing because they think its nifty technology and it actually works like crap... from > > > the reader''s standpoint. Yes, i''m an unhappy, disaffected person, prone to strong > > > and didactic opinions. :-) > > > > > > craig > > > > > > > -- > > - Ramin > > > > -- > - Ramin > > > _______________________________________________ > Rails mailing list > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > > >
Hmmm.. didn''t really test it in anything other than FF and IE on Win32. I guess Safari doesn''t handle the DOM too well. I''ve had problems with it in the past. There are ways to fix it though because you can traverse the dom in many different ways. I might try to fix it if anyone actually finds this useful. On Mar 31, 2005 11:21 PM, Matthew Stott <m.j.stott-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote:> That''s pretty sweet! Works in FireFox but is very weird in Safari. > Yeah... Safari''s JavaScript engine leaves much to be desired... > > > On Mar 31, 2005 4:32 PM, Ramin <i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > Ok, so I put something together pretty quickly.. it works so I thought > > I''d post it here. I hope the mailing list allows for file attachments. > > Its just a simple html file that demostrates my solution to those > > annoying scrollable text boxes of code. > > > > I should really start a blog and put up my work like everyone else. =] > > > > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 14:47:30 -0500, Ramin <i8ramin-Re5JQEeQqe8AvxtiuMwx3w@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > Well, if it bothers you that much (and others, I''m sure) then its > > > something needs to be fixed. I think the main reason people use those > > > scolling boxes is because they dont wanna make their page too large > > > and would rather have the code are scrollable. Not a good solution > > > cause it really does make it hard to read the code. > > > > > > Here''s what I have in mind.. leave the scrolling boxes as they are and > > > simple put a little link (or an image link) that will either maximize > > > the area or open it up in a new win/div set to the full width of the > > > code block. This should satisfy both cases. I''m gonna try and put > > > something together right now and see how it works. I''ll keep you > > > posted. > > > > > > On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 13:57:07 -0500, craig duncan > > > <craig-duncan-ihVZJaRskl1bRRN4PJnoQQ@public.gmane.org> wrote: > > > > Ramin wrote: > > > > > I agree with you - it is pretty annoying sometimes (only when the code > > > > > is long and it goes past the right edge.), > > > > > > > > IMO, it''s annoying even if the code is short but goes past the right edge. > > > > > > > > > but honestly, since these > > > > > boxes are usually used to display code, and code needs to be formatted > > > > > properly to be read right, its kinda hard to do it in any other way. > > > > > > > > Which is better: that the code wraps, or that it disappears (off the right edge)? > > > > (Arguable to me... both are sub-optimal.) > > > > > > > > > One way would be to format your code so that it uses less horizontal > > > > > space (warp at 80 cols.) > > > > > > > > I''ve seen lots of boxes containing code where the box width is maybe only 40 columns > > > > or so. So code that would have displayed fine otherwise is now a pita to read. > > > > > > > > > But this is definitely an interesting problem and my creative juices > > > > > are currently flowing to come up with an elegant solution. I''m sure > > > > > someone (maybe even myself) will use some css/javascript magic to make > > > > > these text boxes display properly w/o scrolling. > > > > > > > > > > Would you rather have popups? :-) > > > > > > > > Yes, if the box was wide enough to display everything. Definitely. > > > > > > > > It''s just a bad design decision to me... putting code into a narrow box so that it > > > > can''t be read without scrolling sideways. In this kind of circumstance, i think it > > > > would be much better to have the width of the text box be as much as needed to > > > > display the entire line... extending all the way to the edge of the browser window > > > > (and beyond) if necessary. If it''s wider than the remainder of the browser window > > > > (rare), it''s still not too difficult to scroll the browser window (whereas it can be > > > > a pita to scroll the text box if it extends far down the page). > > > > > > > > I suppose it depends on what the purpose of the text box is. If it''s to actually > > > > read the code (or whatever) as it appears on the page, then a lot of people just > > > > don''t seem to care that you really can''t very easily. If it''s just a container to > > > > store the text in a form that doesn''t get messed with by the browser then a) i > > > > suppose it does that and b) it''d be _better_ done with an unformatted block. > > > > Wouldn''t it? > > > > > > > > I just haven''t seen the point. It''s seemed to me like people implement this kind of > > > > thing because they think its nifty technology and it actually works like crap... from > > > > the reader''s standpoint. Yes, i''m an unhappy, disaffected person, prone to strong > > > > and didactic opinions. :-) > > > > > > > > craig > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > - Ramin > > > > > > > -- > > - Ramin > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Rails mailing list > > Rails-1W37MKcQCpIf0INCOvqR/iCwEArCW2h5@public.gmane.org > > http://lists.rubyonrails.org/mailman/listinfo/rails > > > > > > > > >-- - Ramin