This evening I ran into the problem Chuck Clifton referred to in message 86 of Volume 71 Issue 9 of this list. That is, objects created by lmer change after calling pvals.fnc on that lmer object when using lme4 version 0.999375-16 and 0.999375-28. This is somewhat troublesome. The bug tracker on R-Forge ( http://r-forge.r-project.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=68&group_id=60&atid=298) <http://r-forge.r-project.org/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=68&group_id=60&atid=298>shows problems with mcmc resampling as existing since November 2007. Bates has a note there (dated 2008-06-23) in reference to .999375-16 that make it sounds like mcmc is getting back on track, but might have small problems. My question in short is what are the last "stable" versions of lme4 and languageR in which I might trust my mcmc estimates and in which my lmer object won't change? sessionInfo: R version 2.8.1 (2008-12-22) i386-pc-mingw32 locale: LC_COLLATE=English_United States.1252;LC_CTYPE=English_United States.1252;LC_MONETARY=English_United States.1252;LC_NUMERIC=C;LC_TIME=English_United States.1252 attached base packages: [1] stats graphics grDevices utils datasets methods base other attached packages: [1] languageR_0.953 lme4_0.999375-28 Matrix_0.999375-17 zipfR_0.6-5 [5] lattice_0.17-20 loaded via a namespace (and not attached): [1] grid_2.8.1 Thanks, Russell PierceGraduate Student University of California, Riverside [[alternative HTML version deleted]]