The other day, CNN had a story on working at Google. Out of curiosity, I went to the Google employment web site (I'm not looking, but just curious). In perusing their job posts for statisticians, preference is given to those who use R and python. Other languages, S-Plus and something called SAS were listed as lower priorities. When I started using Python, I noted they have a portion of the web site with job postings. CRAN does not have something similar, but think it might be useful. I think R is becoming more widely used in industry and I wonder if helping it move along a bit, the maintainer of CRAN could create a section of the web site devoted to jobs where R is a requirement. Hence, we could have our own little "monster.com" kind of thing going on. Of the multitude of ways the gospel can be spread, this is small. But, I think every small step forward is good. Anyone think this is useful? Harold [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
As someone who has (reluctantly) sent job postings to R Help, I think
that a SIG would be a good idea.
Max
-----Original Message-----
From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch
[mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of Doran, Harold
Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 2:08 PM
To: R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch
Subject: [R] R in Industry
The other day, CNN had a story on working at Google. Out of curiosity, I
went to the Google employment web site (I'm not looking, but just
curious). In perusing their job posts for statisticians, preference is
given to those who use R and python. Other languages, S-Plus and
something called SAS were listed as lower priorities.
When I started using Python, I noted they have a portion of the web site
with job postings. CRAN does not have something similar, but think it
might be useful. I think R is becoming more widely used in industry and
I wonder if helping it move along a bit, the maintainer of CRAN could
create a section of the web site devoted to jobs where R is a
requirement.
Hence, we could have our own little "monster.com" kind of thing going
on. Of the multitude of ways the gospel can be spread, this is small.
But, I think every small step forward is good.
Anyone think this is useful?
Harold
[[alternative HTML version deleted]]
______________________________________________
R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
PLEASE do read the posting guide
http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
LEGAL NOTICE\ Unless expressly stated otherwise, this messag...{{dropped}}
That sounds like a good idea. The name R makes it especially hard to find job postings, resumes or do any other type of search. Googling resume+sas or "job opening"+sas is quick and fairly effective (less a few airline jobs). Doing that with R is of course futile. At the risk of getting flamed, it's too bad it's not called something more unique such as Rpackage, Rlanguage, etc. Cheers, Bob ========================================================Bob Muenchen (pronounced Min'-chen), Manager Statistical Consulting Center U of TN Office of Information Technology 200 Stokely Management Center, Knoxville, TN 37996-0520 Voice: (865) 974-5230 FAX: (865) 974-4810 Email: muenchen at utk.edu Web: http://oit.utk.edu/scc, News: http://listserv.utk.edu/archives/statnews.html ======================================================== -----Original Message----- From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of Doran, Harold Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2007 2:08 PM To: R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch Subject: [R] R in Industry The other day, CNN had a story on working at Google. Out of curiosity, I went to the Google employment web site (I'm not looking, but just curious). In perusing their job posts for statisticians, preference is given to those who use R and python. Other languages, S-Plus and something called SAS were listed as lower priorities. When I started using Python, I noted they have a portion of the web site with job postings. CRAN does not have something similar, but think it might be useful. I think R is becoming more widely used in industry and I wonder if helping it move along a bit, the maintainer of CRAN could create a section of the web site devoted to jobs where R is a requirement. Hence, we could have our own little "monster.com" kind of thing going on. Of the multitude of ways the gospel can be spread, this is small. But, I think every small step forward is good. Anyone think this is useful? Harold [[alternative HTML version deleted]] ______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
I've been looking for job that allows me to use R/S+ since I got out of graduate school 2 years ago but with no success. I am wondering if there is something that can be done to promote the use of R in industry. It's been very frustrating to see people doing statistics using excel/spss and even more frustrating to see people paying $$$ for something much inferior to R. On 2/6/07, Doran, Harold <HDoran at air.org> wrote:> The other day, CNN had a story on working at Google. Out of curiosity, I > went to the Google employment web site (I'm not looking, but just > curious). In perusing their job posts for statisticians, preference is > given to those who use R and python. Other languages, S-Plus and > something called SAS were listed as lower priorities. > > When I started using Python, I noted they have a portion of the web site > with job postings. CRAN does not have something similar, but think it > might be useful. I think R is becoming more widely used in industry and > I wonder if helping it move along a bit, the maintainer of CRAN could > create a section of the web site devoted to jobs where R is a > requirement. > > Hence, we could have our own little "monster.com" kind of thing going > on. Of the multitude of ways the gospel can be spread, this is small. > But, I think every small step forward is good. > > Anyone think this is useful? > > Harold > > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >-- WenSui Liu A lousy statistician who happens to know a little programming (http://spaces.msn.com/statcompute/blog)
Matthew Keller wrote: > Far from flaming you, I think you made a good point - one that I > imagine most people who use R have come across. The name "R" is a big > impediment to effective online searches. As a check, I entered "R > software", "SAS software", SPSS software", and "S+ software" into > google. The R 'hit rate' was only ten out of the first 20 results (I > didn't look any further). For the other three software packages, the > hit rates were all 100% (20/20). > > I do wonder if anything can/should be done about this. I generally > search using the term "CRAN" but of course, that omits lots of stuff > relevant to R. Any ideas about how to do effective online searches for > "R" related materials? > Try "r stats". I get 18/20 on Google with that. Jim
Dear all, I was reading with great interest your comments about the use of R in the industry. Personally, I use R as scripting language in the financial industry, not so much for its statistical capabilities (which are great), but more for programming. I once switched from S-Plus to R, because I liked R more, it had a better and easier to use documentation and it is faster (especially with loops). Now some colleagues of mine are (finally) eager to join me in my quantitative efforts, but they feel that they are more at ease with Matlab. I can understand this. Matlab has a real IDE with symbolic debugger, integrated editor and profiling, etc. The help files are great, very comprehensive and coherent. It also could be easier to learn. And, I was very astonished to realise, Matlab is very, very much faster with simple "for" loops, which would speed up simulations considerably. So I have trouble to argue for a use of R (which I like) instead of Matlab. The price of Matlab is high, but certainly not prohibitive. R is great and free, but maybe less comfortable to use than Matlab. Finally, after all, I have the impression that in many job offerings in the financial industry R is much less often mentioned than Matlab. I would very much appreciate any comments on my above remarks. I know there has been some discussions of R vs. Matlab on R-help, but these could be somewhat out-dated, since both languages are evolving quite quickly. With many thanks and best regards, Stefan Albrecht [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
From what I know Matlab is much more popular in fixed income than R, but R is vastly more popular in equities. R seems to be making quite a lot of headway in finance, even in fixed income to some degree. At least to some extent, this is probably logical behavior -- fixed income is more mathematical, and equities is more statistical. Matlab is easier to learn mainly because it has much simpler data structures. However, once you are doing something where a complex data structure is natural, then R is going to be easier to use and you are likely to have a more complete implementation of what you want. If speed becomes a limiting factor, then moving the heavy computing to C is a natural thing to do, and very easy with R. Patrick Burns patrick at burns-stat.com +44 (0)20 8525 0696 http://www.burns-stat.com (home of S Poetry and "A Guide for the Unwilling S User") Albrecht, Dr. Stefan (AZ Private Equity Partner) wrote:>Dear all, > >I was reading with great interest your comments about the use of R in >the industry. Personally, I use R as scripting language in the financial >industry, not so much for its statistical capabilities (which are >great), but more for programming. I once switched from S-Plus to R, >because I liked R more, it had a better and easier to use documentation >and it is faster (especially with loops). > >Now some colleagues of mine are (finally) eager to join me in my >quantitative efforts, but they feel that they are more at ease with >Matlab. I can understand this. Matlab has a real IDE with symbolic >debugger, integrated editor and profiling, etc. The help files are >great, very comprehensive and coherent. It also could be easier to >learn. > >And, I was very astonished to realise, Matlab is very, very much faster >with simple "for" loops, which would speed up simulations considerably. >So I have trouble to argue for a use of R (which I like) instead of >Matlab. The price of Matlab is high, but certainly not prohibitive. R is >great and free, but maybe less comfortable to use than Matlab. > >Finally, after all, I have the impression that in many job offerings in >the financial industry R is much less often mentioned than Matlab. > >I would very much appreciate any comments on my above remarks. I know >there has been some discussions of R vs. Matlab on R-help, but these >could be somewhat out-dated, since both languages are evolving quite >quickly. > >With many thanks and best regards, >Stefan Albrecht > > > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > >______________________________________________ >R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list >https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > >
Hi, Maybe this is a trivial question but I can not figure out a good solution. I have a data frame fa and want to add a new column "sum" with the sum value of fa$X1 grouped by fa$X3.> faX1 X2 X3 1 1 11 1 2 2 12 1 3 3 13 1 4 4 14 2 5 5 15 2 6 6 16 2 7 7 17 3 8 8 18 3 9 9 19 3 10 10 20 3 fa$X3 is the index of group i can>aggregate(fa[,"X1"],list(fa$X3),sum)Group.1 x 1 1 6 2 2 15 3 3 34 then I want to add a new column "sum" in fa and assign the aggregated result to the new column. Is there a solution without using loops? or maybe there is some way can even avoid aggregate operation? Thanks.
Try this: fa$sum <- ave(fa$X1, fa$X3, FUN = sum) On 2/8/07, sun <flyhyena at yahoo.com> wrote:> Hi, > > Maybe this is a trivial question but I can not figure out a good solution. > > I have a data frame fa and want to add a new column "sum" with the sum value > of fa$X1 grouped by fa$X3. > > > fa > X1 X2 X3 > 1 1 11 1 > 2 2 12 1 > 3 3 13 1 > 4 4 14 2 > 5 5 15 2 > 6 6 16 2 > 7 7 17 3 > 8 8 18 3 > 9 9 19 3 > 10 10 20 3 > > fa$X3 is the index of group > > i can > > >aggregate(fa[,"X1"],list(fa$X3),sum) > Group.1 x > 1 1 6 > 2 2 15 > 3 3 34 > > then I want to add a new column "sum" in fa and assign the aggregated result > to the new column. Is there a solution without using loops? > or maybe there is some way can even avoid aggregate operation? > > Thanks. > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >
To those following this thRead: There was a thread on this topic a year or so ago on this list, in which contributors mentioned reasons that corporate powers-that-be were reluctant to commit to R as a corporate statistical platform. (My favorite was "There is no one to sue if something goes wrong.") One reason that I do not think was discussed then, nor have I seen discussed since, is the issue of the continuity of support. If one person has contributed disproportionately heavily to the development and maintenance of a package, and then retires or follows other interests, and the package needs maintenance (perhaps as a consequence of new operating systems or a new version of R), is there any assurance that it will be available? With a commercial package such as, say, SPSS, the corporate memory and continuance makes such continued maintenance likely, but is there such a commitment with R packages? If my company came to depend heavily on a fairly obscure R package (as we are contemplating doing), what guarantee is there that it will be available next month/year/decade? I know of none, nor would I expect one. As R says when it starts up, "R is free software and comes with ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY." Ben Fairbank -----Original Message----- From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of Patrick Burns Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:24 AM To: Albrecht,Dr. Stefan (AZ Private Equity Partner) Cc: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch Subject: Re: [R] R in Industry From what I know Matlab is much more popular in fixed income than R, but R is vastly more popular in equities. R seems to be making quite a lot of headway in finance, even in fixed income to some degree. At least to some extent, this is probably logical behavior -- fixed income is more mathematical, and equities is more statistical. Matlab is easier to learn mainly because it has much simpler data structures. However, once you are doing something where a complex data structure is natural, then R is going to be easier to use and you are likely to have a more complete implementation of what you want. If speed becomes a limiting factor, then moving the heavy computing to C is a natural thing to do, and very easy with R. Patrick Burns patrick at burns-stat.com +44 (0)20 8525 0696 http://www.burns-stat.com (home of S Poetry and "A Guide for the Unwilling S User") Albrecht, Dr. Stefan (AZ Private Equity Partner) wrote:>Dear all, > >I was reading with great interest your comments about the use of R in >the industry. Personally, I use R as scripting language in thefinancial>industry, not so much for its statistical capabilities (which are >great), but more for programming. I once switched from S-Plus to R, >because I liked R more, it had a better and easier to use documentation >and it is faster (especially with loops). > >Now some colleagues of mine are (finally) eager to join me in my >quantitative efforts, but they feel that they are more at ease with >Matlab. I can understand this. Matlab has a real IDE with symbolic >debugger, integrated editor and profiling, etc. The help files are >great, very comprehensive and coherent. It also could be easier to >learn. > >And, I was very astonished to realise, Matlab is very, very much faster >with simple "for" loops, which would speed up simulations considerably. >So I have trouble to argue for a use of R (which I like) instead of >Matlab. The price of Matlab is high, but certainly not prohibitive. Ris>great and free, but maybe less comfortable to use than Matlab. > >Finally, after all, I have the impression that in many job offerings in >the financial industry R is much less often mentioned than Matlab. > >I would very much appreciate any comments on my above remarks. I know >there has been some discussions of R vs. Matlab on R-help, but these >could be somewhat out-dated, since both languages are evolving quite >quickly. > >With many thanks and best regards, >Stefan Albrecht > > > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > >______________________________________________ >R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list >https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >PLEASE do read the posting guidehttp://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html>and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > >______________________________________________ R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code.
On Feb 8, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Ben Fairbank wrote:> If my company > came to depend heavily on a fairly obscure R package (as we are > contemplating doing), what guarantee is there that it will be > available > next month/year/decade? I know of none, nor would I expect one.I would imagine that if there was a package that really needed updating, then your company could hire an R programmer for a short time to fix whatever needs fixing, and that would be a much smaller expense than licensing an expensive package like those other ones out there. But perhaps I am completely wrong in this, I am relatively far from the industry world. Haris
Ben Fairbank wrote:> To those following this thRead: > > There was a thread on this topic a year or so ago on this list, in which > contributors mentioned reasons that corporate powers-that-be were > reluctant to commit to R as a corporate statistical platform. (My > favorite was "There is no one to sue if something goes wrong.") > > One reason that I do not think was discussed then, nor have I seen > discussed since, is the issue of the continuity of support. If one > person has contributed disproportionately heavily to the development and > maintenance of a package, and then retires or follows other interests, > and the package needs maintenance (perhaps as a consequence of new > operating systems or a new version of R), is there any assurance that it > will be available? With a commercial package such as, say, SPSS, the > corporate memory and continuance makes such continued maintenance > likely, but is there such a commitment with R packages? If my company > came to depend heavily on a fairly obscure R package (as we are > contemplating doing), what guarantee is there that it will be available > next month/year/decade? I know of none, nor would I expect one. >I would add that if you find a package that performs for your company, you have done a couple of things. One reviewed and benchmarked the packages results against others or at least makes sure it passes a reasonable economic test. If this is not done, one is assuming the BLACK BOX is always correct. A sin for many quants. Over time the requirements of the company will change so some modifications will be requested from the lead developer or performed in house. This will lead to a level of expertise in the package that new developers or maintainers can keep the continuity of the package going long after the lead developer retires. Especially if the company is willing to allocate some resources to this endeavor in leiu of license fees. For example, recently several of us needed the package RMYsql recompiled for windows xp. We went through the mailing list items related to RmySQL for windows, built the binary zip file, and have posted it in several places. We needed the package functionality and took care of the problem. Total time was about 1 day for initial discovery and research and now about 30 minutes for upgrading the RmySQL for windows after a new version for linux is released.> As R says when it starts up, "R is free software and comes with > ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY." > > Ben Fairbank > > > -----Original Message----- > From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch > [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of Patrick Burns > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:24 AM > To: Albrecht,Dr. Stefan (AZ Private Equity Partner) > Cc: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch > Subject: Re: [R] R in Industry > > From what I know Matlab is much more popular in > fixed income than R, but R is vastly more popular in > equities. R seems to be making quite a lot of headway > in finance, even in fixed income to some degree. > > At least to some extent, this is probably logical behavior -- > fixed income is more mathematical, and equities is more > statistical. > > Matlab is easier to learn mainly because it has much simpler > data structures. However, once you are doing something > where a complex data structure is natural, then R is going to > be easier to use and you are likely to have a more complete > implementation of what you want. > > If speed becomes a limiting factor, then moving the heavy > computing to C is a natural thing to do, and very easy with R. > > Patrick Burns > patrick at burns-stat.com > +44 (0)20 8525 0696 > http://www.burns-stat.com > (home of S Poetry and "A Guide for the Unwilling S User") > > Albrecht, Dr. Stefan (AZ Private Equity Partner) wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> I was reading with great interest your comments about the use of R in >> the industry. Personally, I use R as scripting language in the > financial >> industry, not so much for its statistical capabilities (which are >> great), but more for programming. I once switched from S-Plus to R, >> because I liked R more, it had a better and easier to use documentation >> and it is faster (especially with loops). >> >> Now some colleagues of mine are (finally) eager to join me in my >> quantitative efforts, but they feel that they are more at ease with >> Matlab. I can understand this. Matlab has a real IDE with symbolic >> debugger, integrated editor and profiling, etc. The help files are >> great, very comprehensive and coherent. It also could be easier to >> learn. >> >> And, I was very astonished to realise, Matlab is very, very much faster >> with simple "for" loops, which would speed up simulations considerably. >> So I have trouble to argue for a use of R (which I like) instead of >> Matlab. The price of Matlab is high, but certainly not prohibitive. R > is >> great and free, but maybe less comfortable to use than Matlab. >> >> Finally, after all, I have the impression that in many job offerings in >> the financial industry R is much less often mentioned than Matlab. >> >> I would very much appreciate any comments on my above remarks. I know >> there has been some discussions of R vs. Matlab on R-help, but these >> could be somewhat out-dated, since both languages are evolving quite >> quickly. >> >> With many thanks and best regards, >> Stefan Albrecht >> >> >> >> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >> >> >> >> > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >
Ben Fairbank wrote:> To those following this thRead: > > There was a thread on this topic a year or so ago on this list, in which > contributors mentioned reasons that corporate powers-that-be were > reluctant to commit to R as a corporate statistical platform. (My > favorite was "There is no one to sue if something goes wrong.") > > One reason that I do not think was discussed then, nor have I seen > discussed since, is the issue of the continuity of support. If one > person has contributed disproportionately heavily to the development and > maintenance of a package, and then retires or follows other interests, > and the package needs maintenance (perhaps as a consequence of new > operating systems or a new version of R), is there any assurance that it > will be available? With a commercial package such as, say, SPSS, the > corporate memory and continuance makes such continued maintenance > likely, but is there such a commitment with R packages? If my company > came to depend heavily on a fairly obscure R package (as we are > contemplating doing), what guarantee is there that it will be available > next month/year/decade? I know of none, nor would I expect one. >I would add that if you find a package that performs for your company, you have done a couple of things. One reviewed and benchmarked the packages results against others or at least makes sure it passes a reasonable economic test. If this is not done, one is assuming the BLACK BOX is always correct. A sin for many quants. Over time the requirements of the company will change so some modifications will be requested from the lead developer or performed in house. This will lead to a level of expertise in the package that new developers or maintainers can keep the continuity of the package going long after the lead developer retires. Especially if the company is willing to allocate some resources to this endeavor in leiu of license fees. For example, recently several of us needed the package RMYsql recompiled for windows xp. We went through the mailing list items related to RmySQL for windows, built the binary zip file, and have posted it in several places. We needed the package functionality and took care of the problem. Total time was about 1 day for initial discovery and research and now about 30 minutes for upgrading the RmySQL for windows after a new version for linux is released.> As R says when it starts up, "R is free software and comes with > ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY." > > Ben Fairbank > > > -----Original Message----- > From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch > [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of Patrick Burns > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:24 AM > To: Albrecht,Dr. Stefan (AZ Private Equity Partner) > Cc: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch > Subject: Re: [R] R in Industry > > From what I know Matlab is much more popular in > fixed income than R, but R is vastly more popular in > equities. R seems to be making quite a lot of headway > in finance, even in fixed income to some degree. > > At least to some extent, this is probably logical behavior -- > fixed income is more mathematical, and equities is more > statistical. > > Matlab is easier to learn mainly because it has much simpler > data structures. However, once you are doing something > where a complex data structure is natural, then R is going to > be easier to use and you are likely to have a more complete > implementation of what you want. > > If speed becomes a limiting factor, then moving the heavy > computing to C is a natural thing to do, and very easy with R. > > Patrick Burns > patrick at burns-stat.com > +44 (0)20 8525 0696 > http://www.burns-stat.com > (home of S Poetry and "A Guide for the Unwilling S User") > > Albrecht, Dr. Stefan (AZ Private Equity Partner) wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> I was reading with great interest your comments about the use of R in >> the industry. Personally, I use R as scripting language in the > financial >> industry, not so much for its statistical capabilities (which are >> great), but more for programming. I once switched from S-Plus to R, >> because I liked R more, it had a better and easier to use documentation >> and it is faster (especially with loops). >> >> Now some colleagues of mine are (finally) eager to join me in my >> quantitative efforts, but they feel that they are more at ease with >> Matlab. I can understand this. Matlab has a real IDE with symbolic >> debugger, integrated editor and profiling, etc. The help files are >> great, very comprehensive and coherent. It also could be easier to >> learn. >> >> And, I was very astonished to realise, Matlab is very, very much faster >> with simple "for" loops, which would speed up simulations considerably. >> So I have trouble to argue for a use of R (which I like) instead of >> Matlab. The price of Matlab is high, but certainly not prohibitive. R > is >> great and free, but maybe less comfortable to use than Matlab. >> >> Finally, after all, I have the impression that in many job offerings in >> the financial industry R is much less often mentioned than Matlab. >> >> I would very much appreciate any comments on my above remarks. I know >> there has been some discussions of R vs. Matlab on R-help, but these >> could be somewhat out-dated, since both languages are evolving quite >> quickly. >> >> With many thanks and best regards, >> Stefan Albrecht >> >> >> >> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] >> >> ______________________________________________ >> R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list >> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help >> PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html >> and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >> >> >> >> > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >
As Duncan indicated, I think R wins overwhelmingly on this point:
What should you do if a key software vendor decides to increase
their license fees beyond reason or obsolete a key product that burdens
you with excessive transition costs? Similarly, what do you do if you
want to migrate a special application from some obscure operating system
onto Windows or Linux, or you need some enhancements that should be
minor but your vendor wants an excessive fee for that service? If they
see you as the only customer for a certain modification, their fees may
be reasonable from their perspective.
With R, you can get the source code, so adapting it, modifying it,
etc., should rarely be a problem. With commercial software, you almost
never get the source code, and you should consult attorneys before
attempting to code something required to escape from a vendor whose fee
structure is becoming prohibitive. In many situations, just analyzing
the legal issues could cost you more than paying someone to modify R
code to support your changing needs.
Spencer Graves
Charilaos Skiadas wrote:> On Feb 8, 2007, at 12:48 PM, Ben Fairbank wrote:
>
>> If my company
>> came to depend heavily on a fairly obscure R package (as we are
>> contemplating doing), what guarantee is there that it will be
>> available
>> next month/year/decade? I know of none, nor would I expect one.
>>
>
> I would imagine that if there was a package that really needed
> updating, then your company could hire an R programmer for a short
> time to fix whatever needs fixing, and that would be a much smaller
> expense than licensing an expensive package like those other ones out
> there.
>
> But perhaps I am completely wrong in this, I am relatively far from
> the industry world.
>
> Haris
>
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
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Dear all, thanks a lot for your comments. You raise several important points. I also think that depending on a certain person maintaining a package can be dangerous, since this person might stop working on the package. Even if the package is handed over to a second one, the other guy may be less skilled and, e.g.. add errors to an excellent package. I do not think this is a real threat for the often used and mature packages on CRAN, but there might be the one or the other exception. Still, you cannot blame people doing work for free to the benefit for others, especially, if it is of such a high quality. Many thanks to all for their contributions. Having access to the source code is not really a solution, unless you have the time to study, maintain and correct it. Normally this is not the case. And do not forget that also for commercial packages, like Matlab, you might have access to at least a large part of the source code. Another point is that I expect commercial packages to be more coherent and concise. The parts should fit better together. In R, e.g.., I use several time series packages and classes (and I admire the people having done such marvellous jobs): Date, its, zoo. Still one for all would be far better. Hiring a person doing work for us could be a good thing. Only, I do not know anyone available and tasks occur on an ongoing basis (and then pop up quite quickly, probably a general characteristic of corporate life). In-house competence is also and in addition required. Anyway, a sig list on jobs for R would be really a good thing. With best regards, Stefan Albrecht ____________________________________ Dr. Stefan Albrecht, CFA Allianz Private Equity Partners GmbH Giselastr. 4 | 80802 Munich | Germany Phone: +49.(0)89.3800.18317 Fax: +49.(0)89.3800.818317 EMail: stefan.albrecht@apep.com <mailto:stefan.albrecht@apep.com> Web: www.apep.com <http://www.apep.com/> Allianz Private Equity Partners GmbH | Geschäftsführer: Wan Ching Ang Sitz der Gesellschaft: München | Registergericht: München HRB 126221 | Ust-ID-Nr.: DE 813 264 786 [[alternative HTML version deleted]]
It's been an interseting game of "telephone". Actually, the thread started with a recommendation to have a place on CRAN for prospective employers to place job adverts that require R as a skill. I think the sig is a good idea. But, I think it would be much easier to have something akin to what Python has on their web site. I should clarify that I *do not* think this would be an additional responsibility of the CRAN maintainer(s). But, that prospective employers can populate this portion of the site on their own. Then, maybe that advert would expire and disappear from the web site at that time or when it is removed by the person that created it.> -----Original Message----- > From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch > [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of AA > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 4:23 PM > To: Duncan Murdoch > Cc: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch; Ben Fairbank > Subject: Re: [R] R in Industry > > I think we began this thread by comparing Matlab to R. In > Matlab one has access to the source code except for some > internal functions (There are not that many). The same thing > is valid for Splus. The choice of the programming language, > beside personal preference has a lot to do with the quality > and the number of people using it in the community. In my > own experience Matlab is very good in signal processing while > R is good in statistics and both benefit from a solid user's > community. What I found though is that the documentation in > Matlab is much more user-freindly and practical than R. And > that is important in industry. > > Ansel. > > On 2/8/07, Duncan Murdoch <murdoch at stats.uwo.ca> wrote: > > > > On 2/8/2007 12:48 PM, Ben Fairbank wrote: > > > To those following this thRead: > > > > > > There was a thread on this topic a year or so ago on this > list, in > > > which contributors mentioned reasons that corporate > powers-that-be > > > were reluctant to commit to R as a corporate statistical > platform. > > > (My favorite was "There is no one to sue if something > goes wrong.") > > > > > > One reason that I do not think was discussed then, nor > have I seen > > > discussed since, is the issue of the continuity of > support. If one > > > person has contributed disproportionately heavily to the > development > > > and maintenance of a package, and then retires or follows other > > > interests, and the package needs maintenance (perhaps as a > > > consequence of new operating systems or a new version of R), is > > > there any assurance that it will be available? With a commercial > > > package such as, say, SPSS, the corporate memory and continuance > > > makes such continued maintenance likely, but is there such a > > > commitment with R packages? If my company came to depend > heavily on > > > a fairly obscure R package (as we are contemplating doing), what > > > guarantee is there that it will be available next > month/year/decade? I know of none, nor would I expect one. > > > > There's no guarantee of support, but the majority of R packages are > > licensed under the GPL, so there is a guarantee of > availability of the > > source code, which means that contracting with someone > expert in the > > field to provide you with support will be a possibility. > If it's an > > obscure package as you say, your company may represent a > majority of > > users, and it may well be that the expert you need is > already someone > > in your company, who contributed patches to the package while the > > original maintainer was still active. > > > > If a commercial vendor were to withdraw support for a > package there is > > really no hope of putting together your own support service. You > > would have to live with the bugs and without updates, or start from > > scratch to replace it yourself. For example, this happened to me > > about 10 years ago when Intel withdrew support for 3DR. As > it happens > > OpenGL is a better replacement, but I wasn't too happy at the time. > > > > Duncan Murdoch > > > > > > > > As R says when it starts up, "R is free software and comes with > > > ABSOLUTELY NO WARRANTY." > > > > > > Ben Fairbank > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch > > > [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of > Patrick Burns > > > Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2007 10:24 AM > > > To: Albrecht,Dr. Stefan (AZ Private Equity Partner) > > > Cc: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch > > > Subject: Re: [R] R in Industry > > > > > > From what I know Matlab is much more popular in fixed > income than > > > R, but R is vastly more popular in equities. R seems to > be making > > > quite a lot of headway in finance, even in fixed income to some > > > degree. > > > > > > At least to some extent, this is probably logical > behavior -- fixed > > > income is more mathematical, and equities is more statistical. > > > > > > Matlab is easier to learn mainly because it has much simpler data > > > structures. However, once you are doing something where > a complex > > > data structure is natural, then R is going to be easier > to use and > > > you are likely to have a more complete implementation of what you > > > want. > > > > > > If speed becomes a limiting factor, then moving the heavy > computing > > > to C is a natural thing to do, and very easy with R. > > > > > > Patrick Burns > > > patrick at burns-stat.com > > > +44 (0)20 8525 0696 > > > http://www.burns-stat.com > > > (home of S Poetry and "A Guide for the Unwilling S User") > > > > > > Albrecht, Dr. Stefan (AZ Private Equity Partner) wrote: > > > > > >>Dear all, > > >> > > >>I was reading with great interest your comments about the > use of R > > >>in the industry. Personally, I use R as scripting language in the > > > financial > > >>industry, not so much for its statistical capabilities (which are > > >>great), but more for programming. I once switched from > S-Plus to R, > > >>because I liked R more, it had a better and easier to use > > >>documentation and it is faster (especially with loops). > > >> > > >>Now some colleagues of mine are (finally) eager to join me in my > > >>quantitative efforts, but they feel that they are more at > ease with > > >>Matlab. I can understand this. Matlab has a real IDE with > symbolic > > >>debugger, integrated editor and profiling, etc. The help > files are > > >>great, very comprehensive and coherent. It also could be > easier to > > >>learn. > > >> > > >>And, I was very astonished to realise, Matlab is very, very much > > >>faster with simple "for" loops, which would speed up > simulations considerably. > > >>So I have trouble to argue for a use of R (which I like) > instead of > > >>Matlab. The price of Matlab is high, but certainly not > prohibitive. > > >>R > > > is > > >>great and free, but maybe less comfortable to use than Matlab. > > >> > > >>Finally, after all, I have the impression that in many > job offerings > > >>in the financial industry R is much less often mentioned > than Matlab. > > >> > > >>I would very much appreciate any comments on my above remarks. I > > >>know there has been some discussions of R vs. Matlab on > R-help, but > > >>these could be somewhat out-dated, since both languages > are evolving > > >>quite quickly. > > >> > > >>With many thanks and best regards, > > >>Stefan Albrecht > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > >> > > >>______________________________________________ > > >>R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > > >>https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > >>PLEASE do read the posting guide > > > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > >>and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > > PLEASE do read the posting guide > > > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > > > > ______________________________________________ > > > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > > PLEASE do read the posting guide > > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > > ______________________________________________ > > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > > PLEASE do read the posting guide > > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. > > > > [[alternative HTML version deleted]] > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >