Hello, new to the list, first message. This question perhaps might be more appropriate to R-sig-teaching, and I'd be happy to take it there if this is not the right place for it. I am teaching applied statistics at a small liberal arts college with limited resources, and we are currently using SPSS for our courses. Mainly the reason for this, as I understand it, is that this is what is used "out in the real world", or at least this is our perception of it. I have only used R for my own stuff for about six months, and my training is not in statistics, so I am not very aware of what it can do in other disciplines, especially Sociology and Psychology. I would like to make a case to the other departments here for using R instead, so I was hoping that there might be some resources out there that talk about the extend in which R is being used outside of academia, or in general any other resources that talk about R as a practical alternative to the other non-free statistical packages. Perhaps some statistics, or particular examples of use? Any links would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any thoughts/input into this. Charilaos Skiadas Department of Mathematics Hanover College P.O.Box 108 Hanover, IN 47243
Check http://cran.r-project.org/doc/FAQ/R-FAQ.html#R-and-S and following links. R has a 95% overlap with S and S+, and those two are popular enough that statistics books target them (e.g., Venables and Ripley).> > I am teaching applied statistics at a small liberal arts college with > limited resources, and we are currently using SPSS for our courses. > Mainly the reason for this, as I understand it, is that this is what > is used "out in the real world", or at least this is our perception > of it. I have only used R for my own stuff for about six months, and > my training is not in statistics, so I am not very aware of what it > can do in other disciplines, especially Sociology and Psychology. I > would like to make a case to the other departments here for using R > instead, so I was hoping that there might be some resources out there > that talk about the extend in which R is being used outside of > academia, or in general any other resources that talk about R as a > practical alternative to the other non-free statistical packages. > Perhaps some statistics, or particular examples of use? Any links > would be greatly appreciated.-- I can answer any question. "I don't know" is an answer. "I don't know yet" is a better answer.
On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 15:55 -0500, Charilaos Skiadas wrote:> Hello, new to the list, first message. > > This question perhaps might be more appropriate to R-sig-teaching, > and I'd be happy to take it there if this is not the right place for it. > > I am teaching applied statistics at a small liberal arts college with > limited resources, and we are currently using SPSS for our courses. > Mainly the reason for this, as I understand it, is that this is what > is used "out in the real world", or at least this is our perception > of it. I have only used R for my own stuff for about six months, and > my training is not in statistics, so I am not very aware of what it > can do in other disciplines, especially Sociology and Psychology. I > would like to make a case to the other departments here for using R > instead, so I was hoping that there might be some resources out there > that talk about the extend in which R is being used outside of > academia, or in general any other resources that talk about R as a > practical alternative to the other non-free statistical packages. > Perhaps some statistics, or particular examples of use? Any links > would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks for any thoughts/input into this.There are such discussions sprinkled over the last few years in the r-help archives that you might want to review. There is a lengthy one here: http://finzi.psych.upenn.edu/R/Rhelp02a/archive/35616.html and there are others, though the proper key words seem to be escaping me at the moment. Also, there are at least two articles in R News that you might find of interest: Marc Schwartz. The decision to use R. R News, 4(1):2-5, June 2004. Bill Pikounis and Andy Liaw. The value of R for preclinical statisticians. R News, 5(1):44-47, May 2005. There are others as well relative to how R is used in various domains, but these might be a good start and came to mind relatively easily... :-) HTH, Marc Schwartz
I would turn this on its head. The problem with social science grad schools is that students are not expected to know R. In my org doing psychometrics, we won't even consider an applicant if they only know SPSS.> -----Original Message----- > From: r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch > [mailto:r-help-bounces at stat.math.ethz.ch] On Behalf Of > Charilaos Skiadas > Sent: Thursday, November 09, 2006 11:18 AM > To: r-help at stat.math.ethz.ch > Subject: Re: [R] Making a case for using R in Academia > > As a addendum to all this, this is one of the responses I got > from one of my colleagues: > > "The problem with R is that our students in many social science > fields, are expected to know SPSS when they go to graduate school. > Not having a background in SPSS would put these students at a > disadvantage." > > Is this really the case? Does anyone have any such statistics? > > Charilaos Skiadas > Department of Mathematics > Hanover College > P.O.Box 108 > Hanover, IN 47243 > > ______________________________________________ > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help > PLEASE do read the posting guide > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html > and provide commented, minimal, self-contained, reproducible code. >
I would just like to add a comment to this thread that a good reason to use R is that it's so ***EASY*** to use! You can get R to do what ***you*** want. E.g. I want to set my students an exercise in which they simulate a data set from a certain distribution (using the inverse probability transform), plot a histogram of the resulting data on a density scale, and then superimpose a graph of the probability density function. The class I am teaching uses Minitab (which is a pretty good package, but ....). The last item --- superimpose a graph --- CANNOT be done in Minitab. Fitted densities from a list specified by Minitab can be superimposed, but not a density that you have specified which is off that list. It's incredibly frustrating. In R, of course, it's so easy that falling off a log is difficult by comparison. cheers, Rolf Turner rolf at math.unb.ca
Charilaos Skiadas wrote:> As a addendum to all this, this is one of the responses I got from > one of my colleagues: > > "The problem with R is that our students in many social science > fields, are expected to know SPSS when they go to graduate school. > Not having a background in SPSS would put these students at a > disadvantage." > > Is this really the case? Does anyone have any such statistics? >Unfortunately not statistics, but my experience in nearly every (psychology) research unit in which I have worked is that my colleagues initially expected me to use SPSS and reeled back in horror if I said that I preferred something else. They took anywhere from weeks to forever to realize that they were getting at least as good, and in many cases better, analyses of their data. For many people, statistical software is a belief, not an understanding. Jim
Our first-year graduate statistics course (in psychology) is taught by Prof. Paul Rosenbaum, in the statistics department. Last year (according to my students), he discouraged students from using R for their homework. He told them it was too hard. Now he is again teaching the course, recommending R, and making the homework data available in an R-friendly format (i.e., not xls or JMP format). The student culture is changing too. They help each other. Jon -- Jonathan Baron, Professor of Psychology, University of Pennsylvania Home page: http://www.sas.upenn.edu/~baron Editor: Judgment and Decision Making (http://journal.sjdm.org)