R help - Nov 2004 - Reasons not to answer very basic questions in a straightforwa rd way; was: Re: creating a sequence of object names

I'd like to make just a couple of points:

R-help is considered by quite a few people to be "high-traffic".  As
such,
many have low appetite for very basic questions.  (I wouldn't call them
"silly".)  In many cases such questions are answered by pointing to a
particular function help page or manual section.  In this particular case,
it's probably not at the very basic level that would be covered in "An
Introduction to R".  However, it _is_ a bona fide FAQ, thus the entry 7.21
in the R-FAQ.  Now, if there's ever one type of questions that many do not
like to see in a mailing list, it's one that can be found in the list FAQ,
as one of the main reasons for having the FAQ is to prevent such questions
from being asked over and over again on the list.

Now, if after reading the FAQ entry, you still can't solve the problem, then
you should tell us that, as well as how you tried and failed, so people have
a much better idea where you went off track, and are more likely to give you
more useful help.  This is in the Posting Guide, which suggest ways to ask
question that maximize the probability of getting useful replies.  Reading
that is to your own benefit, as well as others on the list.

As Duncan Murdoch said in a reply to a poster complaining (essentially about
being told to RTFM) on R-devel, we are not asking you to read these things
over and over again, nor on a periodic basis, but please do try to at least
take a glance before posting.  Posts that get less than enthusiastic
response are usually ones that showed that posters' unwillingness to do the
minimal work to help themselves, not because they are considered `dumb' or
`silly'.  In such cases people are much less willing to help.

Cheers,
Andy
> From: John
> 
> Dear Uwe,
> 
> I must say that I had thanked you for referring me to
> the "specific and exact" FAQ 7.21 and I had solved my
> simple problem from it. I alreadly had looked at some
> of basic materials like 'An Introduction to R', 'R for
> Beginners', 'R Data Import/Export as well as the
> FAQ(that is, I know how to use ?assign and ?get). But,
> because I am not going to be an expert in R I assume
> that I have missed something (even very trivial) in
> those documents. Of course, I can read them again and
> again until I know everything in them. That is for
> more interested enthusiasts, however. 
> 
> I know very well that it is basic manners to read
> those materials before asking questions here, but you
> should also understand that people sometimes get stuck
> with very simple problems if they are driven by stress
> or run down. They can save a lot of time and
> concentrate on and develop their primary jobs instead.
> And I don't think you should be worried about 900
> silly questions out of 1000 messages posted because
> they are at least well-educated people who know what
> reading basic materials before posting questions
> means.
> 
> People can learn diverse solutions about their simple
> questions, from advanced experienced users, that
> sometimes contain much more informations and tips.
> It is up to users(not necessarily advanced users)
> whether or not they are willing to answer questions
> and share their precious (even little) findings in
> programming. Volunteers can simply ignore silly
> questions if they are not appropriate for answering.
> Or I would let them know what to do with their
> improper questions in a personal email.
> 
> Finally, I do appreciate your answer again and other
> people's active replies too. It was really useful to
> point me to the specific FAQ rather than to just say
> 'look at the FAQ'. It simply occurred to my mind that
> "kindness" is the best policy for good education.
> 
> I beg your pardon if this message is not relevant to
> this help list.
> 
> With kind regards,
> 
> John
> 
> 
>  --- Uwe Ligges <ligges at statistik.uni-dortmund.de>
> wrote: 
> > John wrote:
> > > Thank you, Uwe. I've found a way to do the job by
> > > reading the FAQ 7.21 although it is not giving a
> > > precise explanation to a novice or casual user at
> > > first reading. For example, if you type the first
> > two
> > 
> > But the corresponding help files do so, for sure,
> > and the FAQ 7.21 
> > points you to ?assign and ?get.
> > 
> > 
> > > lines in the FAQ, you get an error as you do not
> > have
> > > the variable, a, initially.
> > >
> > > I am sure that more and more people get interested
> > in
> > > and serious about using R if advanced users are
> > kind
> > > enough to answer simple and silly questions as
> > well
> > > which are already explained in basic
> > documentations.
> > > Or is this community for highly motivated and
> > advanced
> > > R users only?
> > 
> > No, of course it is for novices as well!
> > 
> > BUT we do expect that novices do read basic
> > documentation such as "An 
> > Introduction to R" and the R FAQ before asking
> > question.
> > If there are too many silly questions from thousands
> > of R users, nobody 
> > is able to manage the questions any more. And note
> > that those people 
> > answering questions do it on a voluntary basis, and
> > (at least partially) 
> > in their spare time!
> > Nobody would be subscribed to R-help any more, if
> > there are 1000 mails a 
> > day, 900 of them containing silly questions! It is
> > yet already hard 
> > enough to get through the huge amount of messages in
> > a reasonable amount 
> > of time!
> > 
> > 
> > I have answered your question in a way,
> > 
> >   1) so that it is up to you to read some
> > documentation. Now you have 
> > seen the FAQs and some help files. And you have
> > learned much more than 
> > you would have learned if I had said "Use assign()"
> > 
> >   2) so that nobody feels too encouraged to ask
> > questions before reading 
> > basic documentation - and my answer still saved you
> > a lot of time!
> > 
> > Uwe Ligges
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > John
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  --- Uwe Ligges <ligges at statistik.uni-dortmund.de>
> > > wrote: 
> > > 
> > >>John wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Hello R-users,
> > >>>
> > >>>I wanted to generate objects named 'my.ftn1',
> > >>>'my.ftn2', ... , 'my.ftn10', and tried the
> > >>
> > >>following
> > >>
> > >>>code without success. How can I do this?
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>>for ( i in 1:10 ) {
> > >>>
> > >>>+ sub(" ", "",
paste("my.ftn", i)) <- NULL
> > >>>+ }
> > >>>Error: Target of assignment expands to
> > >>
> > >>non-language
> > >>
> > >>>object
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>Many thanks.
> > >>>
> > >>>John
> > >>>
> > >>>______________________________________________
> > >>>R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
> > >>>https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > >>>PLEASE do read the posting guide!
> > >>
> > >>http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>Please do as suggested above, read the posting
> > >>guide!
> > >>It suggests to read the FAQs. FAQ 7.21 is what you
> > >>are looking for: "How 
> > >>can I turn a string into a variable?".
> > >>
> > >>Uwe Ligges
> > >>
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ______________________________________________
> > > R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
> > > https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> > > PLEASE do read the posting guide!
> > http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> > 
> >
> 
> ______________________________________________
> R-help at stat.math.ethz.ch mailing list
> https://stat.ethz.ch/mailman/listinfo/r-help
> PLEASE do read the posting guide! 
> http://www.R-project.org/posting-guide.html
> 
>

<lots of good points from Andy and Uwe deleted>

and perhaps the most important reason for the particular socratic form
of teaching on this list are the number of to-be, current, and former
faculty members who feel compelled to teach general solutions to the
problems (reading the FAQ is a rather general solution, eh?) rather
than spoonfeed answers.  This is a bit unlike some of the program
language mailing lists where the care and feeding of personal egos is
also part of the scene.  (of course, I'm not referring to the wizards
lists...!).

best,
-tony

---
A.J. Rossini
blindglobe at gmail.com