Hi all, I'm trying to test a repeated measures model with random effects using the nlme library. Suppose I have two within subjects factors A, B both with two levels. Using aov I can do: aov.1 <- aov(y ~ A*B + Error(S/(A+B)) following Pinheiro and Bates I can acheive the analagous mixed-effects model with: lme.1 <- lme(y~A*B, random=pdBlocked(list(pdIdent(~1),pdIdent(~A-1), pdIdent(~B-1))), data=gdat) But what if we add an additional level of nesting such that each of the conditions within A and B are repeated multiple times within a subject. This would then be a trial factor, call it "T". So we'd have something like this: s1:t1:a1:b1, s1:t1:a2:b2, s1:t1:a1:b2, s1:t1:a2:b1, s1:t2:a1:b1, s1:t2:a2:b2 ... s1:t10:a2:b2 s2:t1:a1:b1 .. and so on. Here the levels of T are held constant for each full iteration of the crossed factors A and B. But a trial could just as easily mean a single iteration of any combination of the factors A and B, e.g. s1:t1:a1:b1, s1:t2:a2:b2, s1:t3:a1:b2 ... The question is, which of these is the correct specification of the "Trial" factor and how would I express it using aov and "Error" or, better yet, using lme? I guess I'm confused as to the practical difference between coding "Trial" as replicates of certain factorial combinations or coding "Trial" without respect to other variables in the design. Forgive me if this is a little adrift for the R-Help mailing list. Brad Buchsbaum -.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.-.- r-help mailing list -- Read http://www.ci.tuwien.ac.at/~hornik/R/R-FAQ.html Send "info", "help", or "[un]subscribe" (in the "body", not the subject !) To: r-help-request at stat.math.ethz.ch _._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._._