Puppet users - Oct 2012 - Puppet Forge: Are my expectations misaligned?

Good Afternoon All,

I''m just pondering - I think that my expectations of the forge are not
100% aligned, or I''m still rubbish with puppet!

I imagine the forge to be used in the following scenario/way

I''m in a situation where I need to provision package X in a particular
way. I fire up my terminal:

$ puppet module search packageX
Searching https://forge.puppetlabs.com ...
NAME                           DESCRIPTION                  AUTHOR       
KEYWORDS
author-packageX      Function Y                        @author          
packageX

Great! Someone has already published a module for my package - So I install it

$ puppet module install author-packageX

I fire up my puppet dashboard, and I create a new class, and I add it to my test
rig

At this point my expectation is that I should get a basic vanilla
install/configuration of that package and dependencies. For example, if the
package is MySql, I''m expecting to have a working default install of
MySql after my test rig checks in. My faith starts to shake when I''m
looking at modules like wordpress. Picture the scene.

Now, If I''m building a wordpress module, it''s going to have a
few dependencies, MySQL, and Apache etc - By chance, I already have some of my
own modules that install MySQL and Apache, I''ll just reuse those in my
wordpress module. After two days I give up, and notice that there is a module on
the forge for wordpress. Now I''m stuck, because I''m assuming
that the author has done similar work to what I did - I''m going to
spend quite some time making sure the forge modules play nice with my custom
ones.

Using the forge feels like installing packages from a repository, and one thing
that I think we all expect, is that all the packages in a repository work
together - Which is not the case with the forge, as anyone can publish anything
at anytime. (I may be wrong, but this is how I''m reasoning through my
paranoia!)

This causes a mental stumbling block for me, because
 
$ puppet module install packageX

doesn''t invoke the same sense of security as

$ apt-get/yum update packageX
 
even though they are both essentially doing the same thing - pulling in open
source code from the outside world to configure my system.

I''m hoping that my reasoning is flawed, and that a few of you are
chuckling as you read this calling me a NooBie Donkey! Is the forge suppose to a
place for people to post examples, and am I then expected to edit that code
accordingly to fit my environment? If so, then what would be the motivation to
push my changes back?

Sorry if I sound incoherent here - I''m trying to determine how best to
make use of the forge, otherwise I''ll end up just reinventing the wheel
and writing up manifests from scratch, which to me defeats the purpose.

Discuss :)

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Everyone had ever used the puppet forge know this. The forge today are
collection of modules, with a different degree of quality. But this
quality is not enforced by a external authority, there is not any
review. Think about it : it is a forge. Like sf.net for some open
source software, some project are good, other less. It is totally
different from the repos that the distributions offer, that contain
packages that had a quality control, formal review, mantainer, a bus
tracking system and so on.

My 2cent. Best regards

2012/10/14, Mister Guru <misteritguru@gmail.com>:
> Good Afternoon All,
>
> I''m just pondering - I think that my expectations of the forge are
not 100%
> aligned, or I''m still rubbish with puppet!
>
> I imagine the forge to be used in the following scenario/way
>
> I''m in a situation where I need to provision package X in a
particular way.
> I fire up my terminal:
>
> $ puppet module search packageX
> Searching https://forge.puppetlabs.com ...
> NAME                           DESCRIPTION                  AUTHOR
> KEYWORDS
> author-packageX      Function Y                        @author
> packageX
>
> Great! Someone has already published a module for my package - So I install
> it
>
> $ puppet module install author-packageX
>
> I fire up my puppet dashboard, and I create a new class, and I add it to my
> test rig
>
> At this point my expectation is that I should get a basic vanilla
> install/configuration of that package and dependencies. For example, if the
> package is MySql, I''m expecting to have a working default install
of MySql
> after my test rig checks in. My faith starts to shake when I''m
looking at
> modules like wordpress. Picture the scene.
>
> Now, If I''m building a wordpress module, it''s going to
have a few
> dependencies, MySQL, and Apache etc - By chance, I already have some of my
> own modules that install MySQL and Apache, I''ll just reuse those
in my
> wordpress module. After two days I give up, and notice that there is a
> module on the forge for wordpress. Now I''m stuck, because
I''m assuming that
> the author has done similar work to what I did - I''m going to
spend quite
> some time making sure the forge modules play nice with my custom ones.
>
> Using the forge feels like installing packages from a repository, and one
> thing that I think we all expect, is that all the packages in a repository
> work together - Which is not the case with the forge, as anyone can publish
> anything at anytime. (I may be wrong, but this is how I''m
reasoning through
> my paranoia!)
>
> This causes a mental stumbling block for me, because
>
> $ puppet module install packageX
>
> doesn''t invoke the same sense of security as
>
> $ apt-get/yum update packageX
>
> even though they are both essentially doing the same thing - pulling in
open
> source code from the outside world to configure my system.
>
> I''m hoping that my reasoning is flawed, and that a few of you are
chuckling
> as you read this calling me a NooBie Donkey! Is the forge suppose to a
place
> for people to post examples, and am I then expected to edit that code
> accordingly to fit my environment? If so, then what would be the motivation
> to push my changes back?
>
> Sorry if I sound incoherent here - I''m trying to determine how
best to make
> use of the forge, otherwise I''ll end up just reinventing the wheel
and
> writing up manifests from scratch, which to me defeats the purpose.
>
> Discuss :)
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "Puppet Users" group.
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>
>
-- 
Inviato dal mio dispositivo mobile

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I would love to see puppet forge as we have the distribution repositories.. 
Modules audited, tested and maybe fixed by PuppetLabs and then officially 
released on puppet forge under the puppetlabs account.

I see some scenarios that puppetlabs could consider:

1. puppetlabs is taking a lot of time to check pull requests on their forge 
modules and release new versions. I sent a pull request some days ago for 
one of their modules and I noticed there were other pull requests for the 
same module submitted a few "months ago" that weren''t merged
yet.

2. Users could create modules following the modules standard by creating 
documentation, parameterized modules, etc and then Puppetlabs could easily 
onboard those modules under their account and start supporting the module 
officially. I try to use only puppetlabs modules on puppet forge because I 
know they have great quality.

Regards,
Felipe

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 9:53:12 AM UTC-7, yersinia.spiros
wrote:
>
> Everyone had ever used the puppet forge know this. The forge today are 
> collection of modules, with a different degree of quality. But this 
> quality is not enforced by a external authority, there is not any 
> review. Think about it : it is a forge. Like sf.net for some open 
> source software, some project are good, other less. It is totally 
> different from the repos that the distributions offer, that contain 
> packages that had a quality control, formal review, mantainer, a bus 
> tracking system and so on. 
>
> My 2cent. Best regards 
>
> 2012/10/14, Mister Guru <mister...@gmail.com <javascript:>>: 
> > Good Afternoon All, 
> > 
> > I''m just pondering - I think that my expectations of the
forge are not
> 100% 
> > aligned, or I''m still rubbish with puppet! 
> > 
> > I imagine the forge to be used in the following scenario/way 
> > 
> > I''m in a situation where I need to provision package X in a
particular
> way. 
> > I fire up my terminal: 
> > 
> > $ puppet module search packageX 
> > Searching https://forge.puppetlabs.com ... 
> > NAME                           DESCRIPTION                  AUTHOR 
> > KEYWORDS 
> > author-packageX      Function Y                        @author 
> > packageX 
> > 
> > Great! Someone has already published a module for my package - So I 
> install 
> > it 
> > 
> > $ puppet module install author-packageX 
> > 
> > I fire up my puppet dashboard, and I create a new class, and I add it
to
> my 
> > test rig 
> > 
> > At this point my expectation is that I should get a basic vanilla 
> > install/configuration of that package and dependencies. For example,
if
> the 
> > package is MySql, I''m expecting to have a working default
install of
> MySql 
> > after my test rig checks in. My faith starts to shake when
I''m looking
> at 
> > modules like wordpress. Picture the scene. 
> > 
> > Now, If I''m building a wordpress module, it''s going
to have a few
> > dependencies, MySQL, and Apache etc - By chance, I already have some
of
> my 
> > own modules that install MySQL and Apache, I''ll just reuse
those in my
> > wordpress module. After two days I give up, and notice that there is a
> > module on the forge for wordpress. Now I''m stuck, because
I''m assuming
> that 
> > the author has done similar work to what I did - I''m going to
spend
> quite 
> > some time making sure the forge modules play nice with my custom ones.
> > 
> > Using the forge feels like installing packages from a repository, and 
> one 
> > thing that I think we all expect, is that all the packages in a 
> repository 
> > work together - Which is not the case with the forge, as anyone can 
> publish 
> > anything at anytime. (I may be wrong, but this is how I''m
reasoning
> through 
> > my paranoia!) 
> > 
> > This causes a mental stumbling block for me, because 
> > 
> > $ puppet module install packageX 
> > 
> > doesn''t invoke the same sense of security as 
> > 
> > $ apt-get/yum update packageX 
> > 
> > even though they are both essentially doing the same thing - pulling
in
> open 
> > source code from the outside world to configure my system. 
> > 
> > I''m hoping that my reasoning is flawed, and that a few of you
are
> chuckling 
> > as you read this calling me a NooBie Donkey! Is the forge suppose to a
> place 
> > for people to post examples, and am I then expected to edit that code 
> > accordingly to fit my environment? If so, then what would be the 
> motivation 
> > to push my changes back? 
> > 
> > Sorry if I sound incoherent here - I''m trying to determine
how best to
> make 
> > use of the forge, otherwise I''ll end up just reinventing the
wheel and
> > writing up manifests from scratch, which to me defeats the purpose. 
> > 
> > Discuss :) 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups 
> > "Puppet Users" group. 
> > To post to this group, send email to
puppet...@googlegroups.com<javascript:>.
>
> > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to 
> > puppet-users...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>. 
> > For more options, visit this group at 
> > http://groups.google.com/group/puppet-users?hl=en. 
> > 
> > 
>
> -- 
> Inviato dal mio dispositivo mobile 
>
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On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:53:41AM -0700, Felipe Salum
wrote:
>    I would love to see puppet forge as we have the distribution
>    repositories.. Modules audited, tested and maybe fixed
(SNIP)

Sounds like you just volunteered.

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On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:53 AM, Felipe Salum <fsalum@gmail.com> wrote:
> I would love to see puppet forge as we have the distribution
> repositories.. Modules audited, tested and maybe fixed by PuppetLabs and
> then officially released on puppet forge under the puppetlabs account.

Today, you''re right. Forge is mainly a community repository for modules
with little curation or identification between the good and the bad.
We''re
eager to change this, having formed a dedicated team around Forge this past
July.

What you''ll see from us in the next several months is making the
contribution process natural and easy. We''ll also be adding features to
help you during the decision making process on whether a module is worth
using or not. As we do these things, we''ll be moving closer and closer
to
where we could go down the path of slicing the Forge into
different distributions of modules that represent various levels of care
and polish.

The Forge has seen a dramatic increase in the last several months in both
number of modules and quality modules. It certainly can be hard to find the
good ones but we''ll work on that. Check out the Recently Active list on
the
homepage for what''s getting regular love and our module of the week
blog
posts. If you''ve got a particular problem that you''re trying
to solve, feel
free to email me. I''ll respond with a module that I know to be in good
shape or make a note to chase one down.

On features, please take a look at open feature requests, vote & comment
them up or add a brand new feature request for your needs.
https://projects.puppetlabs.com/projects/module-site/issues  Feedback is
always appreciated on the list or feel free to ping me individually via
email or ryancoleman on IRC.

I hope you bear with us as we improve the Forge. I''m really excited to
work
on making it better. I''ll leave you with an awesome talk from CERN at
PuppetConf about science, Puppet & Forge. :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ykb2j2ojYU&list=PLV86BgbREluVFB73Wwqp_tCbw5Z9TMLX1&index=1&feature=plpp_video

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On 10/14/2012 08:53 PM, Felipe Salum wrote:
> I would love to see puppet forge as we have the distribution
> repositories.. Modules audited, tested and maybe fixed by PuppetLabs and
> then officially released on puppet forge under the puppetlabs account.
>
> I see some scenarios that puppetlabs could consider:
>
> 1. puppetlabs is taking a lot of time to check pull requests on their
> forge modules and release new versions. I sent a pull request some days
> ago for one of their modules and I noticed there were other pull
> requests for the same module submitted a few "months ago" that
weren''t
> merged yet.
>
> 2. Users could create modules following the modules standard by creating
> documentation, parameterized modules, etc and then Puppetlabs could
> easily onboard those modules under their account and start supporting
> the module officially. I try to use only puppetlabs modules on puppet
> forge because I know they have great quality.
Problem is that if I write module for administering for example Koji 
build system, it is very hard for someone to audit and fix my module - 
because that person should know everythin about Koji, how to install it, 
what are possible options, etc. So I really don'' see a plausible way to
that kind of work.

Easier scenario would be to divide forge into stable, testing, unstable, 
and put modules into stable only if there are maintainers behind them, 
who fix issues on a regular basis.


-- 
Jakov Sosic
www.srce.unizg.hr

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I would love to have time for that :) but I will try to help converting the 
modules I made to use on my company to the forge standard. I wrote my first 
forge module last week, added documentation, everything on parameterized 
classes and easy to use and install.

I appreciate any feedbacks so I can make that a standard to move all my 
other modules.

https://forge.puppetlabs.com/fsalum/newrelic

Regards,
Felipe

On Sunday, October 14, 2012 12:15:53 PM UTC-7, Christopher Wood
wrote:
>
> On Sun, Oct 14, 2012 at 11:53:41AM -0700, Felipe Salum wrote: 
> >    I would love to see puppet forge as we have the distribution 
> >    repositories.. Modules audited, tested and maybe fixed 
>
> (SNIP) 
>
> Sounds like you just volunteered. 
>
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