Behold, gtgbr@gmx.net hath decreed:> > http://www.xiph.org/about.htmlNote also the paragraph at http://www.xiph.org/ : "Xiph.Org Foundation is a non-profit corporation dedicated to protecting the foundations of Internet multimedia from control by private interests. Our purpose is to support and develop free, open protocols and software to serve the public, developer and business markets." Well, wrt the icecast project (version 1,2 or N), if Xiph.Org is truly interested in supporting and development of "free, open protocols and software to serve the public, developer and business markets", then they better clean up the icecast.org webpage to have some recent info, stop calling icecast1 obsolete when icecast2 is not yet released (not counting alpha releases)- even if no one is actively working on it- and stop taking an extremely condescending view upon all those who dare offer up criticism. *If*, however, those in charge of the icecast project aren't really interested in those things, then perhaps they should either (a) not be a part of Xiph.Org or (b) get Xiph.Org to change their mission statement. I doubt that's the case, my guess is there is just a few developers who want to work on icecast2, and don't want to be bothered with other details, which is why projects like this have maintainers who aren't necessarily the core developers, but rather oversee the project from all angles including development, bug-tracking, web-presence, media, etc. Is this what is missing? Will somebody admit to it? -- prothonotar at tarnation.dyndns.org "Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, /Momento Mori/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: part Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/attachments/20021230/e9965c1a/part.pgp
On 12/30/02 10:59 AM, "Aaron Gaudio" <prothonotar@tarnation.dyndns.org> wrote:> Behold, gtgbr@gmx.net hath decreed: >> >> http://www.xiph.org/about.html > > Note also the paragraph at http://www.xiph.org/ : > > "Xiph.Org Foundation is a non-profit corporation dedicated to protecting the > foundations of Internet multimedia from control by private interests. Our > purpose is to support and develop free, open protocols and software to serve > the public, developer and business markets." > > Well, wrt the icecast project (version 1,2 or N), if Xiph.Org is truly > interested in supporting and development of "free, open protocols and software > to serve the public, developer and business markets", then they better > clean up the icecast.org webpage to have some recent info, stop calling > icecast1 obsolete when icecast2 is not yet released (not counting alpha > releases)- even if no one is actively working on it- and stop taking an > extremely condescending view upon all those who dare offer up criticism.We are truly interested in doing those things. We are working on it. The website issues *will* be resolved soon. I would think that we'd have at least a little leeway in this. If this issue is really worth getting this worked up about, I will happily refund your license fees.> *If*, however, those in charge of the icecast project aren't really interested > in those things, then perhaps they should either (a) not be a part of Xiph.Org > or (b) get Xiph.Org to change their mission statement. I doubt that's the > case, > my guess is there is just a few developers who want to work on icecast2, and > don't want to be bothered with other details, which is why projects like this > have maintainers who aren't necessarily the core developers, but rather > oversee the project from all angles including development, bug-tracking, > web-presence, media, etc. Is this what is missing? Will somebody admit to it?It would be really nice if you could try a little bit of civility here. Our sysadmin works as a volunteer. Our webmaster works as a volunteer. The Icecast maintainer, surprise, a volunteer. The system that you're arguing about is entirely volunteer-driven, okay? You want an admission? Here goes. Yes, the website is completely horrible and needs to be updated. Yes, we could use more people to help out. Yes, if you step forward to help out we'll make every effort imaginable to make it easy for you to do so. Yes, things have gone ignored for far too long. But yes, we're interested in fixing it. Can we put down the pig vat of vitriol and discuss this as human beings, instead of in a screaming bitchfight? Thanks. Let me know what you need me to do. Emmett Plant CEO, Xiph.org Foundation --- >8 ---- List archives: http://www.xiph.org/archives/ icecast project homepage: http://www.icecast.org/ To unsubscribe from this list, send a message to 'icecast-request@xiph.org' containing only the word 'unsubscribe' in the body. No subject is needed. Unsubscribe messages sent to the list will be ignored/filtered.
Behold, Emmett Plant <emmettfish@mac.com> hath decreed:> > We are truly interested in doing those things. We are working on it. The > website issues *will* be resolved soon. I would think that we'd have at > least a little leeway in this. If this issue is really worth getting this > worked up about, I will happily refund your license fees.[snip]> It would be really nice if you could try a little bit of civility here. Our > sysadmin works as a volunteer. Our webmaster works as a volunteer. The > Icecast maintainer, surprise, a volunteer. The system that you're arguing > about is entirely volunteer-driven, okay? > > You want an admission? Here goes. Yes, the website is completely horrible > and needs to be updated. Yes, we could use more people to help out. Yes, if > you step forward to help out we'll make every effort imaginable to make it > easy for you to do so. Yes, things have gone ignored for far too long. > > But yes, we're interested in fixing it. > > Can we put down the pig vat of vitriol and discuss this as human beings, > instead of in a screaming bitchfight? Thanks. Let me know what you need me > to do. > > Emmett Plant > CEO, Xiph.org FoundationOkay okay. I don't mean to sound abrasive, I'm only taking the tone that was taken with me. I think icecast1 is a great product, and although I haven't used icecast2, I'm sure it will be the same, and am thankful for the developers who have given their time to work on it. I don't know exactly who in this discussion actually represents the project members and who is just speaking for themselves here, so it's difficult to separate people out into who has been naughty and who has been nice. In general, I think it is bad form for anyone to shrug off users (or potential users) suggestions or criticisms with snide or dismissive remarks, unless those people are taking an unnecessary harshness to begin with. I don't think I did, and I'm sorry if anyone feels I did. When people keep missing the point of what one says, it is difficult to not get a little annoyed. I don't know whether anyone from Xiph has done this or not, since again it's hard to keep track of who's who. When someone basically suggests that certain users don't matter, their concerns are bunk, and their value non-existant, I think they are not only wrong, but harmful to the project and community. That's the approach that some people in the thread have seemly taken. Whether it be out of malice, poor communication skills, or simply weariness, I don't know. In the case of the latter... it's all the more reason to try to get the issues resolved so that people stop complaining about them. At any rate, I assume that the approach is not the official position of Xiph. Most of my replies in that regard were caustic, with the purpose of making one take a step back and say "oh yeah, that's not what Xiph is for"). I think Xiph has done good work and I hope to see them continue it. I offer my suggestions/ criticisms in the spirit of improvement, not to start flame wars. With that in mind, and with the above statements from you, I consider that part of the "debate" closed, since we seem to agree on everything, and hope that we can get working on the solutions. -- prothonotar at tarnation.dyndns.org "Every man is a mob, a chain gang of idiots." - Jonathan Nolan, /Momento Mori/ -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: part Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 593 bytes Desc: not available Url : http://lists.xiph.org/pipermail/icecast/attachments/20021230/fa5e95b9/part.pgp