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Steve Litt

2013-Mar-01 07:57 UTC

[Dovecot] I need help with my mail client: was [OCLUG] running cron on UTC

On Thu, 28 Feb 2013 19:29:20 -0800
Kevin Cernekee <cernekee at gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 5:54 PM, Nathan Haines <nhaines at
ubuntu.com>
I'm sorry to hijack a thread to do this, but I actually had to reply to
someone in order to show you the symptom.

Before describing the symptom, let me give you the situation... I'm
running Claws-Mail 3.8.1 on Xubuntu 12.10. On the way out I just do
normal port 465 SSL to my web host's SMTP server. On the way back,
fetchmail grabs my messages from my ISP using IMAP (and erasing them on
on the ISP's server after retrieval), then delivers them to procmail,
which, based on filters, drops them into the correct directories of the
Dovecot server running on my desktop. Claws-mail then views all my
email on the IMAP server.

slitt at mydesk:~$ dovecot -n
# 2.1.7: /etc/dovecot/dovecot.conf
# OS: Linux 3.5.0-25-generic x86_64 Ubuntu 12.10 ext4

At the bottom of this email I'll put a copy of a typical full header on
a post from me.

Here's the symptom: Every time I reply to an OCLUG post, Claws-Mail
loads the *To* with oclug at mailman.oclug.org and the *CC* with
oclug at penguin.oclug.org. Unless I remember to delete the CC, this makes
me double post every time, and must be quite annoying to you all. This
happens *only* on OCLUG posts: None of my other mailing lists display
this symptom.

It's actually weirder than that, because although when I compose the
message the preceding is true, by the time I get the two messages back
they both say oclug at penguin.oclug.org.

This happens only with the OCLUG list, no others. I studied the full
headers of the two messages when they came back to me, and could
discern no difference in the two. What I did find, however, is that all
OCLUG messages have:

List-Post: <mailto:oclug at mailman.oclug.org>
Reply-To: Orange County Linux Users Group <oclug at penguin.oclug.org>
List-Id: Orange County Linux Users Group <oclug.mailman.oclug.org>

Can anyone tell me how to start narrowing down the cause of this
behavior?

I've CC'ed the Claws-Mail list and the Dovecot list in hopes that maybe
they have some ideas. The fact that the rest of you don't post doubles
makes me wonder if it's a mail client thing (but of course, only for
OCLUG).

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

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Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 01:53:07 -0500
From: Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com>
To: oclug at penguin.oclug.org
Message-ID: <20130301015307.69d0330f at mydesk>
In-Reply-To:
<CAEiYjQLRUhbu4MCYoodDBxLYVOoc01dJjA1+dGQywkd7_1w0SQ at mail.gmail.com>
References:
<CAOF6TY_dmSP+ZS60wKaZo3Lq6iZ+fcqkbh4H46Jz8HOp+xRprQ at mail.gmail.com>
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Organization: Troubleshooters.Com
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Cc: Orange County Linux Users Group <oclug at penguin.oclug.org>
Subject: Re: [OCLUG] Clonezilla vs Ubuntu backup?
X-BeenThere: oclug at mailman.oclug.org
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9
Precedence: list
Reply-To: Orange County Linux Users Group <oclug at penguin.oclug.org>
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======================================================

Steffen Kaiser

2013-Mar-01 08:49 UTC

head link

[Dovecot] I need help with my mail client: was [OCLUG] running cron on UTC

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Fri, 1 Mar 2013, Steve Litt wrote:
> Date: Fri, 1 Mar 2013 02:57:10 -0500
> From: Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com>
> Reply-To: Dovecot Mailing List <dovecot at dovecot.org>
> To: oclug at penguin.oclug.org
> Cc: Orange County Linux Users Group <oclug at penguin.oclug.org>,
>     dovecot at dovecot.org, users at lists.claws-mail.org
> I'm sorry to hijack a thread to do this, but I actually had to reply to
> someone in order to show you the symptom.
It's no Dovecot problem, unless the LDA/LMTP process mangles the headers, 
which probably is no Dovecot problem as well :-)
> List-Post: <mailto:oclug at mailman.oclug.org>
> Reply-To: Orange County Linux Users Group <oclug at
penguin.oclug.org>
> List-Id: Orange County Linux Users Group <oclug.mailman.oclug.org>
>
> Can anyone tell me how to start narrowing down the cause of this
> behavior?
>
> I've CC'ed the Claws-Mail list and the Dovecot list in hopes that
maybe
> =====================================================> Return-path:
<oclug-bounces at penguin.oclug.org>
> From: Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com>
> To: oclug at penguin.oclug.org
> Cc: Orange County Linux Users Group <oclug at penguin.oclug.org>
> Reply-To: Orange County Linux Users Group <oclug at
penguin.oclug.org>
> List-Id: Orange County Linux Users Group <oclug.mailman.oclug.org>
> List-Post: <mailto:oclug at mailman.oclug.org>
Please check your ClawsMail setup if:

a) it adds List-Post to the recipient list,
b) you have configured any reply action, that adds another recipient to 
the message, e.g. overriding "To" with "oclug at
mailman.oclug.org".

- -- 
Steffen Kaiser
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Steve Litt

2013-Mar-02 03:25 UTC

head link

[Dovecot] [Users] I need help with my mail client [Was: running cron on UTC]

On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 07:02:54 -0500
Jerry <jerry at seibercom.net> wrote:
> On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 00:34:33 -0800
> Ian Zimmerman articulated:
> 
> > On Fri, 1 Mar 2013 02:57:10 -0500
> > Steve Litt <slitt at troubleshooters.com> wrote:
> > 
> > Steve> Can anyone tell me how to start narrowing down the cause of
> > Steve> this behavior?
> > 
> > You could begin by telling the (ocluc) list admins to _stop munging_
> > the damn Reply-To headers.  That is broken behavior, as nicely
> > explained here (among many other places):
> > 
> > http://www.unicom.com/pw/reply-to-harmful.html
> 
> Interestingly enough, there is also an opposite opinion on the matter:
> <http://marc.merlins.org/netrants/reply-to-useful.html>
> 
> Personally, I believe ALL list replies should go directly to the list
> and not to an individual unless the individual has specifically
> requested such action. However, I am aware that there are those who
> disagree with that philosophy.
Thanks Ian and Jerry,

It's doubtful that the OCLUG's defaulting replies to
"list" (characterized by some as "munging") is the root
cause here,
because probably 90% of the mailing lists I'm on default replies to the
list, and this symptom happens only with OCLUG's list.

Whatever it is, it doesn't happen when I use Thunderbird instead of
Claws. Of course it also doesn't happen on Claws on all the rest of the
mailing lists I participate in. The fact that replying from Thunderbird
eliminates the symptom, even if I later look at my IMAP using Claws,
says to me that the root cause isn't in my Dovecot IMAP server.

Paul from the Claws list pointed out that OCLUG emails' List-Post
(oclug at mailman.oclug.org) and Reply-To (oclug at penguin.oclug.org) don't
match. So far, that's the only thing about OCLUG I've found that's
remotely different from everyone else. I have no idea whether this
mismatch was intended, or whether it came about through an accident of
history. I also don't know how hard it would be to get them to match.

Steffen from the Claws list asked whether I configured Claws-Mail to
add List-Post to the recipient list, and whether I've configured any
reply action, that adds another recipient to the message. The answer
to the second question is "no", my OCLUG folder has no properties or
processing, my .procmailrc has no filters that change mail from OCLUG. 

As far as Steffen's second question, I don't know where in Claws'
config options this would be configured, but the following command
indicates to me that it's unlikely:

slitt at mydesk:~/.claws-mail$ grep -irl "list-post" * | grep -v
imapcache
tmp/tmpfile.00000055
slitt at mydesk:~/.claws-mail$

Another point of information is that this symptom occurs whether I
"reply to list" or just "reply".

Since I'm happy with both Claws-Mail and OCLUG, I'll "solve"
the
problem by trying to remember to delete the CC automatically inserted
by each Claws reply to OCLUG mail. I might also look into installing
OCLUG folder specific processing or properties, or maybe even setting a
procmail filter to change the headers on mail from OCLUG. It would
basically be a short filter invoking an awk command.

However it gets solved, I'll let you all know about it.

Thanks,

SteveT

Steve Litt                *  http://www.troubleshooters.com/
Troubleshooting Training  *  Human Performance

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