dovecot - Jun 2010 - Evolution and Thunderbird do different things?

I'm trying both Evolution and Thunderbird on my IMAP server, and find
that there are differences in how some things are done, between
clients.  Shouldn't there have been a standard way to do these things
in the IMAP protocol?  The first thing I noticed is that when deleting
email from one client, it puts a "T" on the file name, leaving it
where it is, and from the other client, it moves the mail to a
".Trash" directory on the server (and created a 2nd "Trash"
folder ...
so now I have 2 "Trash" folders, one with some deleted mail in it, and
the other with some deleted mail in it).

I'm not saying Dovecot has a problem here.  But maybe IMAP the
protocol does for not having a standard way to do things, and these
clients, for not doing it the same way (if there is some standard
somewhere).  Any IMAP experts here know what the story is with this?

On 09/06/10 16:15, Phil Howard wrote:
> I'm trying both Evolution and Thunderbird on my IMAP server, and find
> that there are differences in how some things are done, between
> clients.  Shouldn't there have been a standard way to do these things
> in the IMAP protocol?  The first thing I noticed is that when deleting
> email from one client, it puts a "T" on the file name, leaving it
> where it is, and from the other client, it moves the mail to a
> ".Trash" directory on the server (and created a 2nd
"Trash" folder ...
> so now I have 2 "Trash" folders, one with some deleted mail in
it, and
> the other with some deleted mail in it).
> 
> I'm not saying Dovecot has a problem here.  But maybe IMAP the
> protocol does for not having a standard way to do things, and these
> clients, for not doing it the same way (if there is some standard
> somewhere).  Any IMAP experts here know what the story is with this?
> 
Hi,

The IMAP protocol does not define folder names and such. Servers and
clients only know how to create/remove/rename/relocate folders and
files, and some other basics. The names that are used by default, is a
choice of the user (mostly the default settings in the users' client).

'Trash' is the default trashcan folder in thunderbird, but in MS Outlook
it's 'Deleted Items' (not even mentioning differences related to
locale
settings). When interpreting your experience with Evolution (never used
it myself), I guess that it doesn't use the trashcan folder concept at
all, but in stead flags a message as 'Trash', in the same way that you
would set 'Seen' or 'Important' flags, and treats these message
different from a UI perpective. AFAIK only the INBOX is a well-known
default (and maybe even part of some RFC).

You could try to set up all clients' prefs to use the same naming
scheme, and the same way of trash handling, when possible.

-- 
Regards,
	Tom

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On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 12:07, Tom Hendrikx <tom at whyscream.net> wrote:
> The IMAP protocol does not define folder names and such. Servers and
> clients only know how to create/remove/rename/relocate folders and
> files, and some other basics. The names that are used by default, is a
> choice of the user (mostly the default settings in the users' client).
I was afraid of that.  A standard for syntax but not as much for
semantics at a higher level.

> 'Trash' is the default trashcan folder in thunderbird, but in MS
Outlook
> it's 'Deleted Items' (not even mentioning differences related
to locale
> settings). When interpreting your experience with Evolution (never used
> it myself), I guess that it doesn't use the trashcan folder concept at
> all, but in stead flags a message as 'Trash', in the same way that
you
> would set 'Seen' or 'Important' flags, and treats these
message
> different from a UI perpective. AFAIK only the INBOX is a well-known
> default (and maybe even part of some RFC).
But that would mean there is some mechanism in IMAP for these flags.
Dovecot is attaching the flag 'T'.  But what does 'T' mean?  If
IMAP
allows setting flags with arbitrary letters, then 'T' could mean Trash
for one client and Terrorist for another client, or no meaning at all
for yet another.

> You could try to set up all clients' prefs to use the same naming
> scheme, and the same way of trash handling, when possible.
That'll be the hard part ... that I was was afraid of.  It will
require getting everyone to use their clients in the same way,
disrupting what they already do.  I guess it isn't much of a problem
for most people because they rarely share a mailbox between different
people with different clients.