On Sun, 24 Jan 2016, Mark LaPierre wrote:> I'm forced to use MS Windows 7 at work. They have rolled in so much > smart phone/tablet stuff that it makes the desktop even more of a pain > to use than Windows XP was. Examples include, you can have your > applications any color you want as long as it's gray, and you can no > longer search for files by anything other than the file name. I didn't > like Windows before and I like it even less now.This is totally off topic, and untrue.> The main reason I'm still using, nearly obsolete, CentOS 6 is because I > don't want to have to deal with Gnome 3. I wish the Gnome developers would > stop fixing things that are not broken for people who use real desktop > computers to get their work done. Maybe part of the problem is that > Fedora/Red Hat have not figured out that the OS should determine if the > platform it's running on is a desktop or a phone/pad of some kind and then > select a user interface appropriate to the platform.My opinion is that there's a silent majority who don't hate Gnome3, and that it's not half as terrible as people seem to make out. You can start applications, move windows around, and manage files. What do people really want from a DE? Being able to just type winkey-texmaker and have texmaker start up is suddenly a bad thing? gedit broken for offering you fonts that aren't monospace? I think that's a really weak criticism, considering it defaults to monospace. Spatial nautilus behaviour is a gnome 2 horror feature, and okay and cancel swapping order and all the other fun gnome 2 isms seem to have been forgotten. Maybe I'm just hard to annoy, jh
I used gnome for years. Until gnome 3. It struck me a huge step in the wrong direction, and made me have to fish around to do things that used to be easy. I've used mate, xfce, and kde since then, all of which I find more user friendly. Gnome devs seem to think that they are empowered to tell users how they should use their systems. I saw a comment by a gnome developer on one of the gnome lists that basically said that people who were complaining about gnome were not using their computers properly. That did it for me. The trend of trying to impose touch screen interfaces on desktops is a bad one, as far as I am concerned. I don't want my desktop or my laptop adapted to look and feel like a tablet or a smart phone. Having an interface that is designed for hardware that doesn't exist on the system I am using is pointless and annoying. Cheers, Mike On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 6:47 AM, John Hodrien <J.H.Hodrien at leeds.ac.uk> wrote:> On Sun, 24 Jan 2016, Mark LaPierre wrote: > > I'm forced to use MS Windows 7 at work. They have rolled in so much >> smart phone/tablet stuff that it makes the desktop even more of a pain >> to use than Windows XP was. Examples include, you can have your >> applications any color you want as long as it's gray, and you can no >> longer search for files by anything other than the file name. I didn't >> like Windows before and I like it even less now. >> > > This is totally off topic, and untrue. > > The main reason I'm still using, nearly obsolete, CentOS 6 is because I >> don't want to have to deal with Gnome 3. I wish the Gnome developers >> would >> stop fixing things that are not broken for people who use real desktop >> computers to get their work done. Maybe part of the problem is that >> Fedora/Red Hat have not figured out that the OS should determine if the >> platform it's running on is a desktop or a phone/pad of some kind and then >> select a user interface appropriate to the platform. >> > > My opinion is that there's a silent majority who don't hate Gnome3, and > that > it's not half as terrible as people seem to make out. You can start > applications, move windows around, and manage files. What do people really > want from a DE? Being able to just type winkey-texmaker and have texmaker > start up is suddenly a bad thing? > > gedit broken for offering you fonts that aren't monospace? I think that's > a > really weak criticism, considering it defaults to monospace. > > Spatial nautilus behaviour is a gnome 2 horror feature, and okay and cancel > swapping order and all the other fun gnome 2 isms seem to have been > forgotten. > > Maybe I'm just hard to annoy, > > jh > > _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos >
> -----Original Message----- > From: centos-bounces at centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces at centos.org] On > Behalf Of John Hodrien > Sent: den 24 januari 2016 12:47 > To: CentOS mailing list > Cc: Mark LaPierre > Subject: Re: [CentOS] Just need to vent > > My opinion is that there's a silent majority who don't hate Gnome3, and that > it's not half as terrible as people seem to make out. You can start > applications, move windows around, and manage files. What do people really > want from a DE? Being able to just type winkey-texmaker and have texmaker > start up is suddenly a bad thing?Spot on. I don't hate Gnome3 enough to get irritated, not when it's as easy as changing the desktop environment. This is what linux is about for me, if I don't like something - I'm pretty much free to search for other solutions and use those instead. I do understand Alice's rant though. It mirrored my sentiments with CentOS 7 just when it came out. 8-) -- //Sorin
On 01/24/2016 11:31 PM, Sorin Srbu wrote:>> -----Original Message----- >> From: centos-bounces at centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces at centos.org] On >> Behalf Of John Hodrien >> Sent: den 24 januari 2016 12:47 >> To: CentOS mailing list >> Cc: Mark LaPierre >> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Just need to vent >> >> My opinion is that there's a silent majority who don't hate Gnome3, and that >> it's not half as terrible as people seem to make out. You can start >> applications, move windows around, and manage files. What do people really >> want from a DE? Being able to just type winkey-texmaker and have texmaker >> start up is suddenly a bad thing? > > Spot on. > > I don't hate Gnome3 enough to get irritated, not when it's as easy as changing > the desktop environment. > This is what linux is about for me, if I don't like something - I'm pretty > much free to search for other solutions and use those instead. > > I do understand Alice's rant though. > It mirrored my sentiments with CentOS 7 just when it came out. 8-)I tried to like gnome3 but there were several things that I just could not accept. Totem - which they insist on calling Movie Player now. I could not figure out how to get to not be full screen. I use it for playing audio clips I am working on, and don't want it full screen. In Gnome 2 it was easy. Vertical Scroll Bar Sliders. They took away the scroll bars from my applications. No configuration option to turn it on, after searching and asking I found out the only way to turn them back on was with CSS. But after doing that, it only came back for some applications. On my desktop it isn't a big deal, I scroll with the scroll wheel. But on my laptops (Thinpad T Series) I don't have a scroll wheel, I like to grab the slider. Those are the reasons I switched to Mate. But even in Mate, applications like gedit pull in more Gnome 3 UI crap I don't like. Like no file menu on the left hand side of the window, instead horizontal bars all the way at the right hand hand side of the window - yet a save box all the way on the left hand. And the Calculator app - Every damn time I grab the window to move it, the mode selector gets triggered because instead of being in a file menu like it use to be - it is now dead center in the top bar of the window, where I am use to grabbing windows to drag them. Gnome3 UI is a disaster that needs to be fixed. It's also rather annoying that I can no longer use my favorite spreadsheet, gnumeric, in CentOS because only old versions without bug fixes build. It use to be that current versions of gnome applications like gnumeric didn't require the most bleeding edge libraries to build them, but now they do.
On Jan 24, 2016, at 4:47 AM, John Hodrien <J.H.Hodrien at leeds.ac.uk> wrote:> > You can start > applications, move windows around, and manage files. What do people really > want from a DE?Given a choice between Helix GNOME [*] and GNOME 3, I?ll certainly pick Gnome 3. However, it is also a fact that GNOME has some longstanding design misfeatures that should have been fixed long ago. Take GNOME Terminal. (Please!) Its biggest problem is its nonstandard settings mechanism, called Profiles. Every other standard GNOME app puts this under Edit > Preferences, but this one weird oddball app calls it Edit > Current Profile. What are profiles, and why should I care about them? Yes, I know they have a purpose, but forcing the user to operate through this abstraction layer amounts to exposed plumbing. Compare Terminal on OS X, where essentially the same dialog is available from the standard Preferences menu. OS X?s terminal program also has profiles, but it takes you right to the current default profile, rather than give you two different paths to the same configuration screen. I wouldn?t even care about this if GNOME Terminal had better defaults. Its 500 line default scrollback limit is a joke in 2016. OS X?s Terminal has a much smarter default: available memory. You can limit it to a fixed number of lines, but you have to go out of your way to do that now. I ask you, seriously now, when was the last time your system ran out of RAM due to GNOME Terminal?> gedit broken for offering you fonts that aren't monospace? I think that's a > really weak criticism, considering it defaults to monospace.The standard GNOME monospace font is not the only good monospace font in the world. That said, I wonder if the complainers know how good they have it? I wonder how they?d fare if sent back to the days of xfs, blocky fixed-size pixel fonts, and X font strings? Buncha spoiled brats not appreciating their antialiased resizable sensibly-named fonts, installed by default and working out of the box. :)