On 01/24/2016 11:31 PM, Sorin Srbu wrote:>> -----Original Message----- >> From: centos-bounces at centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces at centos.org] On >> Behalf Of John Hodrien >> Sent: den 24 januari 2016 12:47 >> To: CentOS mailing list >> Cc: Mark LaPierre >> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Just need to vent >> >> My opinion is that there's a silent majority who don't hate Gnome3, and that >> it's not half as terrible as people seem to make out. You can start >> applications, move windows around, and manage files. What do people really >> want from a DE? Being able to just type winkey-texmaker and have texmaker >> start up is suddenly a bad thing? > > Spot on. > > I don't hate Gnome3 enough to get irritated, not when it's as easy as changing > the desktop environment. > This is what linux is about for me, if I don't like something - I'm pretty > much free to search for other solutions and use those instead. > > I do understand Alice's rant though. > It mirrored my sentiments with CentOS 7 just when it came out. 8-)I tried to like gnome3 but there were several things that I just could not accept. Totem - which they insist on calling Movie Player now. I could not figure out how to get to not be full screen. I use it for playing audio clips I am working on, and don't want it full screen. In Gnome 2 it was easy. Vertical Scroll Bar Sliders. They took away the scroll bars from my applications. No configuration option to turn it on, after searching and asking I found out the only way to turn them back on was with CSS. But after doing that, it only came back for some applications. On my desktop it isn't a big deal, I scroll with the scroll wheel. But on my laptops (Thinpad T Series) I don't have a scroll wheel, I like to grab the slider. Those are the reasons I switched to Mate. But even in Mate, applications like gedit pull in more Gnome 3 UI crap I don't like. Like no file menu on the left hand side of the window, instead horizontal bars all the way at the right hand hand side of the window - yet a save box all the way on the left hand. And the Calculator app - Every damn time I grab the window to move it, the mode selector gets triggered because instead of being in a file menu like it use to be - it is now dead center in the top bar of the window, where I am use to grabbing windows to drag them. Gnome3 UI is a disaster that needs to be fixed. It's also rather annoying that I can no longer use my favorite spreadsheet, gnumeric, in CentOS because only old versions without bug fixes build. It use to be that current versions of gnome applications like gnumeric didn't require the most bleeding edge libraries to build them, but now they do.
On 01/24/2016 11:46 PM, Alice Wonder wrote:> On 01/24/2016 11:31 PM, Sorin Srbu wrote: >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: centos-bounces at centos.org [mailto:centos-bounces at centos.org] On >>> Behalf Of John Hodrien >>> Sent: den 24 januari 2016 12:47 >>> To: CentOS mailing list >>> Cc: Mark LaPierre >>> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Just need to vent >>> >>> My opinion is that there's a silent majority who don't hate Gnome3, >>> and that >>> it's not half as terrible as people seem to make out. You can start >>> applications, move windows around, and manage files. What do people >>> really >>> want from a DE? Being able to just type winkey-texmaker and have >>> texmaker >>> start up is suddenly a bad thing? >> >> Spot on.Oh and as far as a silent majority that prefers Gnome 3 - Ubuntu was by far the most common distribution for desktop users. It is quickly being overtaken by Mint - with the Cinnamon and Mate builds, not the Gnome 3 build. I think that indicates Gnome 3 doesn't have a silent majority, because the most popular desktop distribution is losing ground fast specifically to a fork with desktops based on gtk2 - one of which is a fork of Gnome 2. That seems to me to indicate people are rejecting Gnome 3.
I personally love Gnome3 on Fedora. It took me about a week to adjust my mindset though -- I did that over a Xmas break. It did help that I read the release notes first (so I was not surprised at the major change) and went through the tutorial the developers provided. An interesting exercise re-examining and critiquing old workflows and exploring alternatives. It works really well on the smallish laptop that I use while commuting and which I plug into a couple of monitors when I get to work. Its great the way it frees up screen real estate and encourages me to focus on "what I am doing" rather than distracting me with "things I might want to do". ? Reading the release notes before installing an OS is a really good idea.? Fedora and RedHat do a really good job with their release notes.
On Sun, Jan 24, 2016 at 11:55:54PM -0800, Alice Wonder wrote:> > Oh and as far as a silent majority that prefers Gnome 3 - > > Ubuntu was by far the most common distribution for desktop users. > > It is quickly being overtaken by Mint - with the Cinnamon and Mate > builds, not the Gnome 3 build.Ubuntu switched to their Unity interface, which seemed to aggravate a lot of people. To me, who uses neither, it seemed rather similar to Gnome 3. I think a large part of Mint's popularity was less because of the desktop and more because it included a bunch of proprietary drivers and codecs out of the box (although these days, it won't play libx265 encoded video without adding a ppa. I prefer different desktops, so never got involved in the argument--it does seem, judging from Fedora forums that avoiding Gnome (and this goes back to the days when it was Gnome 2) saved me from a great many problems I saw and see on their forums. -- Scott Robbins PGP keyID EB3467D6 ( 1B48 077D 66F6 9DB0 FDC2 A409 FA54 EB34 67D6 ) gpg --keyserver pgp.mit.edu --recv-keys EB3467D6
On 01/24/2016 11:46 PM, Alice Wonder wrote:> On 01/24/2016 11:31 PM, Sorin Srbu wrote: >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: centos-bounces at centos.org >>> [mailto:centos-bounces at centos.org] On >>> Behalf Of John Hodrien >>> Sent: den 24 januari 2016 12:47 >>> To: CentOS mailing list >>> Cc: Mark LaPierre >>> Subject: Re: [CentOS] Just need to vent >>> >>> My opinion is that there's a silent majority who don't hate >>> Gnome3, and that >>> it's not half as terrible as people seem to make out. You can start >>> applications, move windows around, and manage files. What do >>> people really >>> want from a DE? Being able to just type winkey-texmaker and have >>> texmaker >>> start up is suddenly a bad thing? >> >> Spot on. >> >> I don't hate Gnome3 enough to get irritated, not when it's as easy >> as changing >> the desktop environment. >> This is what linux is about for me, if I don't like something - >> I'm pretty >> much free to search for other solutions and use those instead. >> >> I do understand Alice's rant though. >> It mirrored my sentiments with CentOS 7 just when it came out. 8-) > > I tried to like gnome3 but there were several things that I just > could not accept. > > Totem - which they insist on calling Movie Player now. I could not > figure out how to get to not be full screen. I use it for playing > audio clips I am working on, and don't want it full screen. In Gnome > 2 it was easy. > > Vertical Scroll Bar Sliders. They took away the scroll bars from my > applications. No configuration option to turn it on, after searching > and asking I found out the only way to turn them back on was with CSS. > > But after doing that, it only came back for some applications. > > On my desktop it isn't a big deal, I scroll with the scroll wheel. > But on my laptops (Thinpad T Series) I don't have a scroll wheel, I > like to grab the slider. > > Those are the reasons I switched to Mate. > > But even in Mate, applications like gedit pull in more Gnome 3 UI > crap I don't like. Like no file menu on the left hand side of the > window, instead horizontal bars all the way at the right hand hand > side of the window - yet a save box all the way on the left hand. > > And the Calculator app - Every damn time I grab the window to move > it, the mode selector gets triggered because instead of being in a > file menu like it use to be - it is now dead center in the top bar > of the window, where I am use to grabbing windows to drag them. > > Gnome3 UI is a disaster that needs to be fixed. > > It's also rather annoying that I can no longer use my favorite > spreadsheet, gnumeric, in CentOS because only old versions without > bug fixes build. It use to be that current versions of gnome > applications like gnumeric didn't require the most bleeding edge > libraries to build them, but now they do.I appreciate this "venting" thread. I am still on 6.7 with plans to move to CentOS 7 in a few months. I know CentOS 7 is systemd -- ok, maybe I can deal with that having had some exposure to it, though I'm VERY fond of good ole system V init scripts. And I actually had been looking forward to gnome3, but now I'm not too sure about that. Well I could go back to KDE in any case. But -- grub2 ?! Oh boy -- no joy from that in my previous experience! :( I'm hoping I can stick with grub 1 some way if I DO migrate to CentOS 7.> _______________________________________________ > CentOS mailing list > CentOS at centos.org > https://lists.centos.org/mailman/listinfo/centos-- -------------------------------------------- MzK "Though no one can go back and make a brand new start, anyone can start from now and make a brand new ending." -- Carl Bard
On Mon, Jan 25, 2016 at 03:26:51PM -0800, Kay Schenk wrote:> I know CentOS 7 is systemd -- ok, maybe I can deal with that having > had some exposure to it, though I'm VERY fond of good ole system V > init scripts. And I actually had been looking forward to gnome3, but > now I'm not too sure about that. Well I could go back to KDE in any > case. But -- grub2 ?! Oh boy -- no joy from that in my previous > experience! :( I'm hoping I can stick with grub 1 some way if I DO > migrate to CentOS 7.It's not like there's a lot of love for grub 2, but bootloaders are really pretty hard, and no one is maintaining grub 1, and it doesn't handle UEFI, so.... I'm not sure it's worth your trouble. If you really want something lightweight (and don't need UEFI), you can replace grub with extlinux/syslinux. -- Matthew Miller <mattdm at fedoraproject.org> Fedora Project Leader