asterisk users - Mar 2006 - MultiBRI in Australia - found one - maybe

I may have found a source of an A-Ticked HFC 4BRI PCI adapter in
Australia, and will be testing one next week if all goes well. I don't
want to post the details of the reseller online unless invited to do so,
so if nobody replies and says they are interested then I won't :)

I'll follow up once I've tested it.

Let me know if you want the details.

James

Hi James,

I am definitely interested in the card and also in the results of your
testing.

Regards,

David
________________________________

LEXNET PTY LTD
[e] david.hindmarsh@lex.net.au
[m] 0411 172 667
Mail: PO Box R1180
Royal Exchange, Sydney NSW 1225
 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com 
> [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of 
> James Harper
> Sent: Saturday, 4 March 2006 12:03
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: [Asterisk-Users] MultiBRI in Australia - found one - maybe
> 
> I may have found a source of an A-Ticked HFC 4BRI PCI adapter 
> in Australia, and will be testing one next week if all goes 
> well. I don't want to post the details of the reseller online 
> unless invited to do so, so if nobody replies and says they 
> are interested then I won't :)
> 
> I'll follow up once I've tested it.
> 
> Let me know if you want the details.
> 
> James
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --
> 
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> 
> 
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release 
> Date: 17/02/2006
>  
> 
-- 
Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
Checked by AVG Free Edition.
Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date: 17/02/2006

I have received the card.

It comes with some closed source capi drivers, which I haven't tried as
I don't believe that is in acceptable solution anyway.

I had a look at hacking qozap to make it work, but haven't gone there at
the moment. What I'm looking at now is visdn. 0.14 doesn't even want to
compile against 2.6.15, but the latest development snapshot does, and
after I added in the correct PCI ID's, it detects the card.

I have no idea if the development vISDN HFC-4S drivers are even in a
workable state, but they do detect L1 status, and asterisk is able to
detect an incoming call but won't answer it.
 
The card itself is the 'Saphir III ML PCI'. Older versions of it used
another chipset ('Infineon' I think), but this newer one definitely uses
the HFC-4S chipset, and is definitely detected as such by the vISDN
driver.

The only supplier I have found in Australia for it is
http://www.voipnow.com.au/, and they are the ones who have supplied the
one I am testing. On their web site, the picture is of the old version
with 4 large chips on it, but the new one is pictured at
http://hstnet.de/english/index.asp.

I'll follow up if I have any further success, or if I give up.

James


> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-
> bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of David Hindmarsh
> Sent: Sunday, 5 March 2006 22:37
> To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
> Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] MultiBRI in Australia - found one -
maybe
> 
> Hi James,
> 
> I am definitely interested in the card and also in the results of your
> testing.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> David
> ________________________________
> 
> LEXNET PTY LTD
> [e] david.hindmarsh@lex.net.au
> [m] 0411 172 667
> Mail: PO Box R1180
> Royal Exchange, Sydney NSW 1225
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
> > [mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of
> > James Harper
> > Sent: Saturday, 4 March 2006 12:03
> > To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> > Subject: [Asterisk-Users] MultiBRI in Australia - found one - maybe
> >
> > I may have found a source of an A-Ticked HFC 4BRI PCI adapter
> > in Australia, and will be testing one next week if all goes
> > well. I don't want to post the details of the reseller online
> > unless invited to do so, so if nobody replies and says they
> > are interested then I won't :)
> >
> > I'll follow up once I've tested it.
> >
> > Let me know if you want the details.
> >
> > James
> > _______________________________________________
> > --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --
> >
> > Asterisk-Users mailing list
> > To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
> >    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> >
> >
> > --
> > Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> > Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> > Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release
> > Date: 17/02/2006
> >
> >
> 
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.11/264 - Release Date:
> 17/02/2006
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --
> 
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

> Best of luck :-D
> I would be interested in your progress on this.
> 
> I am having very little problem in convincing ppl to upgrade their
> multiple
> BRI cricuits for a single pri.  The cost difference between a te110
(or a
> Sangoma A101) MORE than covers the difference from the customer stand
> point,
> especially once you are up to 3 ISDN-2 Interfaces.
> 
A single port E1 is cheaper than any multi BRI adapter I've seen, and
based on Telstra pricing, 3.5 BRI services is about the point where the
PRI is the cheaper option in terms of monthly rental. Installation cost
is another matter but after a year or so it doesn't matter so much.

One use for the multi BRI card though, especially one that can do NT
mode, is that you can use it to trunk to a legacy BRI PBX, which is why
I'm still interested in finding one for use in Australia.

James

> pdhales@optusnet.com.au wrote:
> > Noted  - I may need to grab one for an install coming up.
> 
> Just a heads-up: If you plan to do any faxing with the board, don't
get
> the "V-4BRI" which is voice-only. Get the bigger, badder
"4BRI", which
> supports voice, fax and data.
> 
Does this allow the faxing to be done through asterisk?

What is it about the V-4BRI which prevents faxing?

Thanks

James

> I have been involved with a BRI install using 3 x Draytek minivigor
128
> BRI
> adapters and chan_mISDN.  The draytek units use the HFCS-USB chipset,
are
> USB and take power from the USB interface.  Each adapter will support
PTP,
> PTMP, TE and I think NT mode with a maximum of 8 adapters (16
channels)
> per
> server.  The TA's themselves cost $71 inc GST which is the most cost
> effective BRI / multi BRI solution I have found in Australia to date.
Wow! I wish you had spoken up sooner :)

I used to try and avoid usb, but the linux usb stack and general usb
implementation of hardware has improved a lot in recent years. I might
try and get a couple.

The vISDN web site says that their hfc usb driver is under development,
but there seems to be a bit of code there so maybe it's already
working...
> I have one in production for about a week, however chan_mISDN is still
> listed as experimental at this time.  Initially with FC4 and the
default
> FC4
> kernel the server used to lock up solid about once every 24 hours.  It
has
> been suggested to us that people using kernel 2.6.14 or higher do not
> experience these problems so we rebuilt the server with the new kernel
and
> put it in yesterday.  We should find out in a couple of days if this
has
> fixed the lockup problem. 
This is a USB shortcoming, is the lockup occurring in the USB hardware
(eg you have a faulty mainboard), of of the many layers of the USB linux
driver, the HFC usb driver, or the device itself. So many possibilities
for failure. Things are better than they used to be though.
> If we can't resolve it we'll stick in a Cisco
> router to handle the BRI.
Will the cisco router will do the BRI to VoIP, or are you working with
data?
> Anyhow, apart from the lockup problem, it does definitely work and if
the
> lockup is in chan_mISDN then you could use chan_capi on top of mISDN
with
> these adapters.  I have a server in production elsewhere using the
Fritz!
> card with mISDN drivers and chan_capi for over a year.
> 
> So, if you have have the ability to do some testing then definitely
have a
> play with these Draytek adapters.  I got mine from Netbro in NSW.
Note
> that
> it is only the currently available minivigors that have the HFCS-USB
> chipset, older ones on the secondhand market and eBay most likely use
a
> Winbond chipset.
Thanks for the tip.
> As for aesthetics, I was concerned that from the customers viewpoint
it
> might look dodgy, as if we are using the equivalent of external modems
to
> connect the PBX to the pstn, however the units are quite small and
have a
> business feel to them.  They look sorta like an ADSL line splitter and
> cabled neatly look quite professional.
Nice to know. I think that was sort of my perception too, that USB is a
'baby' interface that is useful for plugging in toys like mice and
cameras, but nowadays we are selling systems to clients with HP USB
DAT72 drives on them, and there are no issues (except that all DAT
drives are pieces of crap, but that's nothing to do with the interface,
and now we can swap them out without taking the server down!), and USB
harddisks are widely used as an easy way to move large amounts of data
around.

Thanks again for speaking up, I might get a couple and start playing.

James

> Note that
> it is only the currently available minivigors that have the HFCS-USB
> chipset, older ones on the secondhand market and eBay most likely use
a
> Winbond chipset.
Is there any chance that they would sell me an old one? Do I need to ask
specifically that they supply the HFC one?

Thanks

James

I have ordered one (for $71 from the supplier you mentioned, although I
have since found another supplier who appears to have them for $55!!!)
and will run whatever testing I can.

Someone from Cologne has commented that because it us a USB device,
there may be some latency issues (which will amplify any echo problems)
and I suspect that faxing may also suffer a bit. They are also only
USB1.1, but I'm not sure if that's a problem.

Have you tested faxing? Even if faxing doesn't work well enough to be
useful because of the delays, I think this is a very nice solution to my
problem (lack of BRI hardware in AU). Thanks again for bringing it to my
attention!!!

James
> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-
> bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Craig Guy
> Sent: Friday, 10 March 2006 14:35
> To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
> Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] MultiBRI in Australia - found one -
maybe
> 
> We didn't ask specifically for new ones.  I believe the old ones went
out
> of
> stock a long time ago.  We ordered four at once and they all came with
the
> HFC chipset.
> 
> Craig
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "James Harper" <james.harper@bendigoit.com.au>
> To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion"
> <asterisk-users@lists.digium.com>
> Sent: Friday, March 10, 2006 8:38 AM
> Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] MultiBRI in Australia - found one -
maybe
> 
> 
> > Note that
> > it is only the currently available minivigors that have the HFCS-USB
> > chipset, older ones on the secondhand market and eBay most likely
use
> a
> > Winbond chipset.
> 
> Is there any chance that they would sell me an old one? Do I need to
ask
> specifically that they supply the HFC one?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> James
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --
> 
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
> 
> _______________________________________________
> --Bandwidth and Colocation provided by Easynews.com --
> 
> Asterisk-Users mailing list
> To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit:
>    http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users

> 
> Got my 2 dreytek adapters today...
> Dropped them on to my test system.  After wadding thru my Memory of
how to
> setup mISDN, I had it up and running within about 2 hours.
You might be receiving an email from me shortly then if I get stuck. If
it wasn't for these annoying public holidays (Labour day in Victoria)
mine would probably have arrived today too :)
> Both of them operating in ptmp with no echo cancel turned on at this
> stage.
> Seems to be happy.
That's quite comforting for initial testing.

Could you try some faxing?

And is there any way to measure latency with some hard figures, maybe by
use of a repeater? Maybe something like this:

Echo measurer -> BRI 1 -> BRI2 -> echo responder.

Where the measurer dials the responder, sends out a ping, and measures
the delay in the response.

I find it hard to believe that any USB induced latency could be
measurable in milliseconds...
> Will drop them onto my local production box next week and see how we
go :D

Let us know!

Thanks

James

> -----Original Message-----
> From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com [mailto:asterisk-users-
> bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of David Phelan
> Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2006 13:28
> To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
> Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] MultiBRI in Australia - found one -
maybe
> 
> Faxing received by SpanDSP seems to work fine with these units.
>From what I understand, receiving should be more sensitive to delays etc
than sending, so it looks like we're onto a winner here!

Thanks for reporting back. I'll post with how my testing goes when my
unit arrives.

james

Any idea where I can get some of these units in Melbourne?

Paul Hales
AsteriskIT

> Faxing received by SpanDSP seems to work fine with these units.
 

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of David Phelan
Sent: Tuesday, 14 March 2006 9:00 AM
To: 'Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion'
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] MultiBRI in Australia - found one - maybe

HI Craig and all that is following this.
I am running a Vanilla 2.6.11 
>From cli, misdn show config
Misdn General-Config:
 ->  VERSION: 0.2.1
 ->  DEBUG_LEVEL: 1                  ->  TRACEFILE: not set
 ->  TRACE_CALLS: false              ->  TRACE_DIR: /var/log/
 ->  BRIDGING: no                    ->  STOP_TONE_AFTER_FIRST_DIGIT: yes
 ->  APPEND_DIGITS2EXTEN: yes        ->  L1_INFO_OK: yes
 ->  CLEAR_L3: no                    ->  DYNAMIC_CRYPT: no
 ->  CRYPT_PREFIX: **                ->  CRYPT_KEYS: test,muh


So Far, no dropped calls etc....
Todays testing will be faxing.

Dave

-----Original Message-----
From: asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com
[mailto:asterisk-users-bounces@lists.digium.com] On Behalf Of Craig Guy
Sent: Monday, 13 March 2006 6:42 PM
To: Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion
Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] MultiBRI in Australia - found one - maybe

We went to kernel 2.6.15, and at the same time went to mISDN 0.3.0 rc25, we
haven't had any lockups but users are reporting dropped calls. 
Unfortunately for us this means dropping chan_mISDN in favour of the Cisco
router containing BRI cards and then SIP from the Cisco to Asterisk.  It may
still be possible to use chan_capi with the mISDN drivers for the Drayteks
but for us we've run out of time which is a bit of a bummer.  I believe the
problem is in chan_mISDN which is admittedly still an experimental driver at
this stage with release candidates every few days for the past couple weeks.

I'm still interested to know how you guys get along with these adapters.  As
I said, I think the problem is within chan_mISDN at this stage rather than
in the USB adapters, so maybe using chan_CAPI on top of mISDN hardware
drivers or using chan_vISDN would be the way to go until chan_mISDN matures.

Craig

----- Original Message -----
From: "James Harper" <james.harper@bendigoit.com.au>
To: "Asterisk Users Mailing List - Non-Commercial Discussion" 
<asterisk-users@lists.digium.com>
Sent: Monday, March 13, 2006 3:16 PM
Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] MultiBRI in Australia - found one - maybe

>
> Got my 2 dreytek adapters today...
> Dropped them on to my test system.  After wadding thru my Memory of
how to
> setup mISDN, I had it up and running within about 2 hours.
You might be receiving an email from me shortly then if I get stuck. If it
wasn't for these annoying public holidays (Labour day in Victoria) mine
would probably have arrived today too :)
> Both of them operating in ptmp with no echo cancel turned on at this