Hi Everyone, This is going to sound silly but... I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They sell licenses to run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was asking about obtaining Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting solution. Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she said that it was illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are running Linux (some about terms and conditions)..... Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I was under the impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out Xen Guests to customers without paying anything... Thanks _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> > Hi Everyone, > > This is going to sound silly but... > > I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They selllicenses to> run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was asking aboutobtaining> Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting solution. > > Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she saidthat it was> illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are running Linux(some> about terms and conditions)..... > > Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I wasunder the> impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out Xen Gueststo> customers without paying anything... >Just to clarify, you aren''t saying anything about Windows DomU''s are you? That''s all covered by SPLA etc (and Microsoft get their money no matter what platform you run it on). You are asking about running a Linux DomU on Xen as a service for a customer right? I wouldn''t take the word of a Microsoft licensing person on anything but Microsoft licensing, and even then I like to get a second opinion. The SPLA guys seem to know their stuff, but only about SPLA. James _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
My understanding is you can buy SPLA licenses per user or per cpu as normal for use in a virtual environment. The only oddity is per CPU licenses must license for all cpus in the Xen box regardless of if the VM is pinned to less physical CPUs. Rob -----Original Message----- From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of James Harper Sent: 09 June 2010 11:44 To: Jonathan Tripathy; Xen-users@lists.xensource.com Subject: RE: [Xen-users] Xen License> > Hi Everyone, > > This is going to sound silly but... > > I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They selllicenses to> run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was asking aboutobtaining> Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting solution. > > Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she saidthat it was> illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are running Linux(some> about terms and conditions)..... > > Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I wasunder the> impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out Xen Gueststo> customers without paying anything... >Just to clarify, you aren''t saying anything about Windows DomU''s are you? That''s all covered by SPLA etc (and Microsoft get their money no matter what platform you run it on). You are asking about running a Linux DomU on Xen as a service for a customer right? I wouldn''t take the word of a Microsoft licensing person on anything but Microsoft licensing, and even then I like to get a second opinion. The SPLA guys seem to know their stuff, but only about SPLA. James _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users The SAQ Group Registered Office: 18 Chapel Street, Petersfield, Hampshire GU32 3DZ SAQ is the trading name of SEMTEC Limited. Registered in England & Wales Company Number: 06481952 http://www.saqnet.co.uk AS29219 SAQ Group Delivers high quality, honestly priced communication and I.T. services to UK Business. Broadband : Domains : Email : Hosting : CoLo : Servers : Racks : Transit : Backups : Managed Networks : Remote Support. ISPA Member _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Wednesday 09 June 2010 12:33:12 Jonathan Tripathy wrote:> Hi Everyone, > > This is going to sound silly but... > > I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They sell licenses > to run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was asking about > obtaining Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting solution. > > Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she said that it > was illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are running Linux > (some about terms and conditions).....If it is illegal, then quite a few large hosting companies are breaking the law as a simple google-search will yield several.> Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I was under the > impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out Xen Guests to > customers without paying anything...IANAL, but I think you''re basically providing a co-hosting service on ''virtual hardware''. As far as I am aware, this is perfectly legal, as long as the OS running on the virtual hardware is legally licensed. If the Guest is running Linux, it will be licensed (but check the license that comes with the commercial ones, like RedHat, SuSE and others) If the Guest is running MS Windows, I would assume that a MS Windows licence (not OEM, but the non-OEM in this case) would cover it. And I agree with James Harper, I wouldn''t trust the advice from a Microsoft Sales person when it comes to non MS licensing. -- Joost Roeleveld _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Hi Everyone, I should probably clarify my comments. I of course understand that I have to pay for Microsoft SPLA licensing. This is pretty simple (that I need to pay). But the person on the phone seemed to start telling me that renting Linux VMs out was "illegal" without paying... So let''s say I have a Xen hypervisor, Ubuntu Dom0 and 40 Ubuntu DomUs, there is no money to pay here right? ________________________________ From: Robert Dunkley [mailto:Robert@saq.co.uk] Sent: Wed 09/06/2010 11:53 To: James Harper; Jonathan Tripathy; Xen-users@lists.xensource.com Subject: RE: [Xen-users] Xen License My understanding is you can buy SPLA licenses per user or per cpu as normal for use in a virtual environment. The only oddity is per CPU licenses must license for all cpus in the Xen box regardless of if the VM is pinned to less physical CPUs. Rob -----Original Message----- From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com [mailto:xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com] On Behalf Of James Harper Sent: 09 June 2010 11:44 To: Jonathan Tripathy; Xen-users@lists.xensource.com Subject: RE: [Xen-users] Xen License> > Hi Everyone, > > This is going to sound silly but... > > I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They selllicenses to> run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was asking aboutobtaining> Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting solution. > > Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she saidthat it was> illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are running Linux(some> about terms and conditions)..... > > Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I wasunder the> impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out Xen Gueststo> customers without paying anything... >Just to clarify, you aren''t saying anything about Windows DomU''s are you? That''s all covered by SPLA etc (and Microsoft get their money no matter what platform you run it on). You are asking about running a Linux DomU on Xen as a service for a customer right? I wouldn''t take the word of a Microsoft licensing person on anything but Microsoft licensing, and even then I like to get a second opinion. The SPLA guys seem to know their stuff, but only about SPLA. James _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users The SAQ Group Registered Office: 18 Chapel Street, Petersfield, Hampshire GU32 3DZ SAQ is the trading name of SEMTEC Limited. Registered in England & Wales Company Number: 06481952 http://www.saqnet.co.uk AS29219 SAQ Group Delivers high quality, honestly priced communication and I.T. services to UK Business. Broadband : Domains : Email : Hosting : CoLo : Servers : Racks : Transit : Backups : Managed Networks : Remote Support. ISPA Member _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Jonathan Tripathy <jonnyt@abpni.co.uk> wrote:> Hi Everyone, > > I should probably clarify my comments. > > I of course understand that I have to pay for Microsoft SPLA licensing. This > is pretty simple (that I need to pay). But the person on the phone seemed to > start telling me that renting Linux VMs out was "illegal" without paying...... and you believe what Microsoft SPLA reseller says about Linux?> > So let''s say I have a Xen hypervisor, Ubuntu Dom0 and 40 Ubuntu DomUs, there > is no money to pay here right?Pretty much so. You CAN choose to pay Canonical for Ubuntu support if you need it though. -- Fajar _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Wednesday 09 June 2010 12:56:53 Jonathan Tripathy wrote:> Hi Everyone, > > I should probably clarify my comments. > > I of course understand that I have to pay for Microsoft SPLA licensing. > This is pretty simple (that I need to pay). But the person on the phone > seemed to start telling me that renting Linux VMs out was "illegal" > without paying... > > So let''s say I have a Xen hypervisor, Ubuntu Dom0 and 40 Ubuntu DomUs, > there is no money to pay here right?As fas as I understand the licencing that comes with Ubuntu, no, you don''t have to. If you also want to use some of the commercial management tools and/or get commercial support from canonical, then that will cost money. (Note the use of "commercial" here) -- Joost _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> > My understanding is you can buy SPLA licenses per user or per cpu as > normal for use in a virtual environment. The only oddity is per CPU > licenses must license for all cpus in the Xen box regardless of if the > VM is pinned to less physical CPUs. >I''ve just browsed the Jan 2010 Services Provider Use Rights document, and it fairly clearly says that you only need to license the number of processors for a virtual machine that you assign to it (rounding up). So if you have 4 quad core processors you can allocate 1-4 cores and pay a single Processor license for the DomU, 5-8 cores and pay 2 x Processor licenses, etc. I don''t think you even need to bother presenting the cores as cores of the same physical processor as long as you stay within the spirit of the agreement. Alternatively, with Enterprise editions of the software, you can pay 4 x Processor licenses on a 4 x processor machine and run unlimited virtual machines, which makes sense as at any given time you can''t possibly be using more than 4 processors. The latest version of the document can be found from http://www.microsoftvolumelicensing.com/userights/DocumentSearch.aspx?Mo de=3&DocumentTypeId=2, I assume that the later version doesn''t change the above but I haven''t read it yet. James _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Hi James, They have clarified this since last years docs. Looks like it is all nice and logical now on the per CPU license front. Thanks for correcting this, Rob -----Original Message----- From: James Harper [mailto:james.harper@bendigoit.com.au] Sent: 09 June 2010 12:35 To: Robert Dunkley; Jonathan Tripathy; Xen-users@lists.xensource.com Subject: RE: [Xen-users] Xen License> > My understanding is you can buy SPLA licenses per user or per cpu as > normal for use in a virtual environment. The only oddity is per CPU > licenses must license for all cpus in the Xen box regardless of if the > VM is pinned to less physical CPUs. >I''ve just browsed the Jan 2010 Services Provider Use Rights document, and it fairly clearly says that you only need to license the number of processors for a virtual machine that you assign to it (rounding up). So if you have 4 quad core processors you can allocate 1-4 cores and pay a single Processor license for the DomU, 5-8 cores and pay 2 x Processor licenses, etc. I don''t think you even need to bother presenting the cores as cores of the same physical processor as long as you stay within the spirit of the agreement. Alternatively, with Enterprise editions of the software, you can pay 4 x Processor licenses on a 4 x processor machine and run unlimited virtual machines, which makes sense as at any given time you can''t possibly be using more than 4 processors. The latest version of the document can be found from http://www.microsoftvolumelicensing.com/userights/DocumentSearch.aspx?Mo de=3&DocumentTypeId=2, I assume that the later version doesn''t change the above but I haven''t read it yet. James The SAQ Group Registered Office: 18 Chapel Street, Petersfield, Hampshire GU32 3DZ SAQ is the trading name of SEMTEC Limited. Registered in England & Wales Company Number: 06481952 http://www.saqnet.co.uk AS29219 SAQ Group Delivers high quality, honestly priced communication and I.T. services to UK Business. Broadband : Domains : Email : Hosting : CoLo : Servers : Racks : Transit : Backups : Managed Networks : Remote Support. ISPA Member _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Jonathan Tripathy wrote:>I of course understand that I have to pay for Microsoft SPLA >licensing. This is pretty simple (that I need to pay). But the >person on the phone seemed to start telling me that renting Linux >VMs out was "illegal" without paying...Well actually Microsoft **claim** that use of Linux without a license from MS is illegal - because MS **claim** that Linux infringes on their patents. So far they have absolutely refused to say what they claim infringes on what patents. This is in fact quite likely, but unless MS are prepared to say what they think infringes on what, then it''s hard to do anything about it. But apart from that, which is clearly designed to frighten off business managers from using Linux (as in, use Linux and we''ll burn your business in court), it is none of their business what you do with Linux and other FOSS.>So let''s say I have a Xen hypervisor, Ubuntu Dom0 and 40 Ubuntu >DomUs, there is no money to pay here right?Not a penny :-) -- Simon Hobson Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>So let''s say I have a Xen hypervisor, Ubuntu Dom0 and 40 Ubuntu >DomUs, there is no money to pay here right?Not a penny :-) ------------------------------------------------------------------------- That''s good news then! Not even for renting VMs to customer?s :-) _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Jonathan Tripathy wrote:>> >So let''s say I have a Xen hypervisor, Ubuntu Dom0 and 40 Ubuntu >> >DomUs, there is no money to pay here right?>>Not a penny :-)>That''s good news then! Not even for renting VMs to customer?s :-)If it''s GPL, or indeed most of the other open licences, then you can rent out a VM to others without paying a penny to anyone. The only ''cost'' may be in supplying the source to anyone if they ask for it - under the GPL, it might well be argued that renting out a VM constitutes distribution and the licence requires you to provide the source if requested (which you can do by referring them to the vendors web site - eg the Ubuntu site - to download it). The GPL really isn''t onerous - it essentially says you can use and modify the code, and you can distribute both the original and any modifications you make, provided you pass on the same rights to anyone you distribute the code to. -- Simon Hobson Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 6/9/2010 3:33 AM, Jonathan Tripathy wrote:> Hi Everyone, > This is going to sound silly but... > I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They sell > licenses to run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was > asking about obtaining Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting > solution. > Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she said > that it was illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are > running Linux (some about terms and conditions)..... > Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I was > under the impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out > Xen Guests to customers without paying anything... > Thanks >Its a matter of semantics. You are required to license the software that you are running whether it is in a virtual machine or on a real machine. All versions of Linux have licenses. You have to meet the license of the version that you are using. It may include paying a fee then it may not. Same with any other software you use. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On Wednesday 09 June 2010 13:06:34 Fajar A. Nugraha wrote:> On Wed, Jun 9, 2010 at 5:56 PM, Jonathan Tripathy <jonnyt@abpni.co.uk>wrote:> > Hi Everyone, > > > > I should probably clarify my comments. > > > > I of course understand that I have to pay for Microsoft SPLA licensing. > > This is pretty simple (that I need to pay). But the person on the phone > > seemed to start telling me that renting Linux VMs out was "illegal" > > without paying... > > ... and you believe what Microsoft SPLA reseller says about Linux? > > > So let''s say I have a Xen hypervisor, Ubuntu Dom0 and 40 Ubuntu DomUs, > > there is no money to pay here right? > > Pretty much so. You CAN choose to pay Canonical for Ubuntu support if > you need it though. >To put it simply, this M$ guy does two things wrong: - he has the wrong idea - he spreads the wrong idea Now why does this sound familiar to me for all Windows guys. B. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Roy wrote:> Its a matter of semantics. You are required to license the software > that you are running whether it is in a virtual machine or on a real > machine. All versions of Linux have licenses. You have to meet the > license of the version that you are using. It may include paying a > fee then it may not. Same with any other software you use.Will, if you''re going to pick semantic nits... there is still such a thing as software that''s in the public domain - i.e., nobody owns it and there is no license at all. Cheers, Miles Fidelman -- In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In<fnord> practice, there is. .... Yogi Berra _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 09/06/10 21:37, Roy wrote:> On 6/9/2010 3:33 AM, Jonathan Tripathy wrote: >> Hi Everyone, >> This is going to sound silly but... >> I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They sell >> licenses to run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was >> asking about obtaining Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting >> solution. >> Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she said >> that it was illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are >> running Linux (some about terms and conditions)..... >> Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I was >> under the impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out >> Xen Guests to customers without paying anything... >> Thanks >> > > Its a matter of semantics. You are required to license the software > that you are running whether it is in a virtual machine or on a real > machine. All versions of Linux have licenses. You have to meet the > license of the version that you are using. It may include paying a > fee then it may not. Same with any other software you use. > > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-usersRoy, aren''t most Linux distro free to use? Putting aside ReD Hat and Suse for the minute... _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Even the suse one is free, you just pay for support and updates. At least this how it was for sles10. ----- Original message -----> > On 09/06/10 21:37, Roy wrote: > > On 6/9/2010 3:33 AM, Jonathan Tripathy wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > > > This is going to sound silly but... > > > I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They sell > > > licenses to run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was > > > asking about obtaining Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting > > > solution. > > > Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she said > > > that it was illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are > > > running Linux (some about terms and conditions)..... > > > Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I was > > > under the impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out > > > Xen Guests to customers without paying anything... > > > Thanks > > > > > > > Its a matter of semantics. You are required to license the software > > that you are running whether it is in a virtual machine or on a real > > machine. All versions of Linux have licenses. You have to meet the > > license of the version that you are using. It may include paying a > > fee then it may not. Same with any other software you use. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Xen-users mailing list > > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > > Roy, aren''t most Linux distro free to use? Putting aside ReD Hat and > Suse for the minute... > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
This sounds like more Microsoft-reseller scaremongering. But you do need to be aware of the licenses for any software that you intend to sell/offer/provide/support for your customers. A lot of distros are GPL / BSD / etc. and some are commercial offerings such as RedHat / Suse. If you want someone backing you up, it can often pay to use a commercial offering. Jun 9, 2010 06:11:31 PM, bart.coninckx@telenet.be wrote: Even the suse one is free, you just pay for support and updates. At least this how it was for sles10. ----- Original message ----- > > On 09/06/10 21:37, Roy wrote: > > On 6/9/2010 3:33 AM, Jonathan Tripathy wrote: > > > Hi Everyone, > > > This is going to sound silly but... > > > I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They sell > > > licenses to run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was > > > asking about obtaining Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting > > > solution. > > > Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she said > > > that it was illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are > > > running Linux (some about terms and conditions)..... > > > Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I was > > > under the impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out > > > Xen Guests to customers without paying anything... > > > Thanks > > > > > > > Its a matter of semantics. You are required to license the software > > that you are running whether it is in a virtual machine or on a real > > machine. All versions of Linux have licenses. You have to meet the > > license of the version that you are using. It may include paying a > > fee then it may not. Same with any other software you use. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Xen-users mailing list > > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users > > Roy, aren''t most Linux distro free to use? Putting aside ReD Hat and > Suse for the minute... > > _______________________________________________ > Xen-users mailing list > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
greno@verizon.net wrote:>This sounds like more Microsoft-reseller scaremongering. But you do >need to be aware of the licenses for any software that you intend to >sell/offer/provide/support for your customers. A lot of distros are >GPL / BSD / etc. and some are commercial offerings such as RedHat / >Suse. If you want someone backing you up, it can often pay to use a >commercial offering.Even Debian (which takes a very ''pure'' view of things either being free and open - or not in Debian) has the option of installing non-free components. That isn''t enabled by default, but they are there. If software is under GPL or BSD, then no-one can stop you offering a service based from it, stop you charging for that service, or charge you for the priviledge. But there are non-free elements in some distros (or other bits you get from elsewhere) that you may need to be aware of - and for some of those (Fraunhofer and MP3 come to mind) a fee may be payable to a third party for a patent licence). But that''s a far cry from the implied threat that started this thread - which sounded very much like an MS droid claiming that MS needs their tax before it''s legal to run Linux. -- Simon Hobson Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
While I agree with you, I am lead to believe that at least Debian, Ubuntu and CentOS''s "Packages" come will either GPL or BSD licensed software, which requires no money to pay. Otherwise those guys wouldn''t be allowed to distribute those packages either. On 10/06/10 01:15, greno@verizon.net wrote:> bottom line is every distro is composed of a great deal of software > released under a number of different licenses. Whatever ''packaging'' > your doing, you need to understand the licenses within the package. > Licenses are legal documents. It is best to run your business plan by > an attorney familiar with software licenses who can tell you whether > what you plan to do is allowable under the licenses that you will > include in your ''package''. > > > > Jun 9, 2010 07:30:54 PM, jonnyt@abpni.co.uk wrote: > > But bottom line, > > CentOS, Debian, Ubuntu and all other GPL based distros are all > free to rent out, right? > > > On 09/06/10 23:23, greno@verizon.net wrote: >> This sounds like more Microsoft-reseller scaremongering. But you >> do need to be aware of the licenses for any software that you >> intend to sell/offer/provide/support for your customers. A lot >> of distros are GPL / BSD / etc. and some are commercial >> offerings such as RedHat / Suse. If you want someone backing you >> up, it can often pay to use a commercial offering. >> >> >> >> Jun 9, 2010 06:11:31 PM, bart.coninckx@telenet.be wrote: >> >> Even the suse one is free, you just pay for support and >> updates. At least this how it was for sles10. >> >> >> ----- Original message ----- >> > >> > On 09/06/10 21:37, Roy wrote: >> > > On 6/9/2010 3:33 AM, Jonathan Tripathy wrote: >> > > > Hi Everyone, >> > > > This is going to sound silly but... >> > > > I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. >> They sell >> > > > licenses to run Microsoft software in a hosted >> environment. I was >> > > > asking about obtaining Windows licenses to run on my >> Xen VPS hosting >> > > > solution. >> > > > Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily >> sure she said >> > > > that it was illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even >> if they are >> > > > running Linux (some about terms and conditions)..... >> > > > Please someone tell me that it was just a >> misunderstanding. I was >> > > > under the impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed >> to rent out >> > > > Xen Guests to customers without paying anything... >> > > > Thanks >> > > > >> > > >> > > Its a matter of semantics. You are required to license >> the software >> > > that you are running whether it is in a virtual machine >> or on a real >> > > machine. All versions of Linux have licenses. You have >> to meet the >> > > license of the version that you are using. It may >> include paying a >> > > fee then it may not. Same with any other software you use. >> > > >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Xen-users mailing list >> > > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >> <mailto:Xen-users@lists.xensource.com> >> > > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >> > >> > Roy, aren''t most Linux distro free to use? Putting aside >> ReD Hat and >> > Suse for the minute... >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Xen-users mailing list >> > Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >> <mailto:Xen-users@lists.xensource.com> >> > http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >> >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Xen-users mailing list >> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Xen-users mailing list >> Xen-users@lists.xensource.com >> http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
> > > > On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Jonathan Tripathy <jonnyt@abpni.co.uk>wrote:> While I agree with you, I am lead to believe that at least Debian, Ubuntu > and CentOS''s "Packages" come will either GPL or BSD licensed software, which > requires no money to pay. Otherwise those guys wouldn''t be allowed to > distribute those packages either. >But did you actually read what Greno said??? Every distro has it''s own licensing terms which you need to abide by. If, CentOS for example, had a package with a licenses that said you can''t used it for commercial purposes, although it''s free, then you need to abied to that license if you were to rent out the VPS to the clients. When was the last time that you read the license agreement on CentOS, Debian, openSuse, etc? OR for that matter, the license agreements on stuff like XEN / KVM / VirtualBox / OpenVZ / etc? They all have their own license agreements, which could put you into a legal battle if you don''t follow it. Even if CentOS / Debian / openSuse is GPL.> -- > Kind Regards > Rudi Ahlers > SoftDux > > Website: http://www.SoftDux.com > Technical Blog: http://Blog.SoftDux.com > Office: 087 805 9573 > Cell: 082 554 7532 > >_______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
________________________________
From: Rudi Ahlers [mailto:rudiahlers@gmail.com]
Sent: Thu 10/06/2010 09:01
To: Jonathan Tripathy
Cc: greno@verizon.net; Xen-users@lists.xensource.com
Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Xen License
On Thu, Jun 10, 2010 at 9:35 AM, Jonathan Tripathy <jonnyt@abpni.co.uk>
wrote:
While I agree with you, I am lead to believe that at least Debian, Ubuntu and
CentOS''s "Packages" come will either GPL or BSD licensed
software, which requires no money to pay. Otherwise those guys wouldn''t
be allowed to distribute those packages either.
But did you actually read what Greno said???
Every distro has it''s own licensing terms which you need to abide by.
If, CentOS for example, had a package with a licenses that said you
can''t used it for commercial purposes, although it''s free,
then you need to abied to that license if you were to rent out the VPS to the
clients.
When was the last time that you read the license agreement on CentOS, Debian,
openSuse, etc? OR for that matter, the license agreements on stuff like XEN /
KVM / VirtualBox / OpenVZ / etc? They all have their own license agreements,
which could put you into a legal battle if you don''t follow it. Even if
CentOS / Debian / openSuse is GPL.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why do you presume that I havn''t read the license? I have done
extensive (and I mean extensive!) reading of the GPL, GPLv2 and GPLv3, and I
have been in touch with the free software foundation over some issues. If you
knew me, you''d know how funny that question you asked is!
Ubuntu, Debian and CentOS don''t contain any software which
don''t allow commercial purposes (out of the box anyway). Xen, KVM, and
OpenVZ are all released under the same or similar licenses. There is nothing in
those distros or products that will get me, or anyone else doing hosting with
those products, into any copyright licensing trouble at all (Provided you abide
by the terms of the GPL, which is easy*!). GPL compliance is very easy in
hosting. There is nearly nothing to do! It is a grey area on whether or not
hosting is counted as distribution. GPLv3 would say that it isn''t
("Mere interaction with a user through a computer network, with no transfer
of a copy, is not conveying."). GPLv2 doesn''t mention anything
about hosting, probably as it wasn''t around back then when it was
created. To be on the safe side, all you need to do, is just place the source
code on your website. But even this probably isn''t necessary.
It''s probably jsut eaiser to offer the source code. Tivoisation clasues
are in GPLv3, but arn''t really relevant in hosting.
Clearly Rudi didn''t read what I had to say, which was that "I
agree" with Greno. However it is almost (but not quite) a moot point, as
with GPL, there is almost nothing to do! With the BSD-style licenses, there is
really nothing to do at all!
This is what makes FOSS so great! While many will try and tell you that
"Oh you''ll get into legal trouble", they clearly have some
vested interest in some software that is non-free, or just don''t know
how FOSS works!
With the GPL anyway, the bottom line is easy: To everyone you
"convery" the software to, give out or offer the source, and pass on
all you''re rights of the GPL to the person you "conveyed" the
software to.
*Easy if you are not a programmer
So Rudi, when was the last time you actually read the licenses for those
products?
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________________________________ From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com on behalf of Simon Hobson Sent: Thu 10/06/2010 07:51 To: Xen-users@lists.xensource.com Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Xen License greno@verizon.net wrote:>This sounds like more Microsoft-reseller scaremongering. But you do >need to be aware of the licenses for any software that you intend to >sell/offer/provide/support for your customers. A lot of distros are >GPL / BSD / etc. and some are commercial offerings such as RedHat / >Suse. If you want someone backing you up, it can often pay to use a >commercial offering.Even Debian (which takes a very ''pure'' view of things either being free and open - or not in Debian) has the option of installing non-free components. That isn''t enabled by default, but they are there. If software is under GPL or BSD, then no-one can stop you offering a service based from it, stop you charging for that service, or charge you for the priviledge. But there are non-free elements in some distros (or other bits you get from elsewhere) that you may need to be aware of - and for some of those (Fraunhofer and MP3 come to mind) a fee may be payable to a third party for a patent licence). But that''s a far cry from the implied threat that started this thread - which sounded very much like an MS droid claiming that MS needs their tax before it''s legal to run Linux. -- Simon Hobson http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- But surly if I''m only offering the basic distro, it is up to my customer to pay for any non-free software, right? Of course all Linux distro allow you to install non-free software, however it''s ok for my customers to do it, isn''t it? Thanks _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
On 6/9/2010 2:53 PM, Jonathan Tripathy wrote:> > On 09/06/10 21:37, Roy wrote: >> On 6/9/2010 3:33 AM, Jonathan Tripathy wrote: >>> Hi Everyone, >>> This is going to sound silly but... >>> I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They sell >>> licenses to run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was >>> asking about obtaining Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting >>> solution. >>> Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she said >>> that it was illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are >>> running Linux (some about terms and conditions)..... >>> Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I was >>> under the impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out >>> Xen Guests to customers without paying anything... >>> Thanks >>> >> >> Its a matter of semantics. You are required to license the software >> that you are running whether it is in a virtual machine or on a real >> machine. All versions of Linux have licenses. You have to meet the >> license of the version that you are using. It may include paying a >> fee then it may not. Same with any other software you use. >> >> > Roy, aren''t most Linux distro free to use? Putting aside ReD Hat and > Suse for the minute... >Yes. From my experience, most are free. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
________________________________ From: xen-users-bounces@lists.xensource.com on behalf of Roy Sent: Thu 10/06/2010 14:51 Cc: Xen-users@lists.xensource.com Subject: Re: [Xen-users] Xen License On 6/9/2010 2:53 PM, Jonathan Tripathy wrote:> > On 09/06/10 21:37, Roy wrote: >> On 6/9/2010 3:33 AM, Jonathan Tripathy wrote: >>> Hi Everyone, >>> This is going to sound silly but... >>> I''m just off the phone with a Microsoft SPLA reseller. They sell >>> licenses to run Microsoft software in a hosted environment. I was >>> asking about obtaining Windows licenses to run on my Xen VPS hosting >>> solution. >>> Maybe there is a big misunderstanding, but I''m faily sure she said >>> that it was illegial for me to rent out Xen VMs...even if they are >>> running Linux (some about terms and conditions)..... >>> Please someone tell me that it was just a misunderstanding. I was >>> under the impression that since Xen is GPL, I''m allowed to rent out >>> Xen Guests to customers without paying anything... >>> Thanks >>> >> >> Its a matter of semantics. You are required to license the software >> that you are running whether it is in a virtual machine or on a real >> machine. All versions of Linux have licenses. You have to meet the >> license of the version that you are using. It may include paying a >> fee then it may not. Same with any other software you use. >> >> > Roy, aren''t most Linux distro free to use? Putting aside ReD Hat and > Suse for the minute... >Yes. From my experience, most are free. _____________________________________________________________________________________________ Looks like I''m good to start renting out Linux VMs then without paying any license fees :) _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Jonathan Tripathy wrote:>But surly if I''m only offering the basic distro, it is up to my >customer to pay for any non-free software, right? > >Of course all Linux distro allow you to install non-free software, >however it''s ok for my customers to do it, isn''t it?That depends on the terms of the contract between you and your customer. I you are renting them a base "free only" VM then it would be reasonable to make it a contract term that the customers deals with licensing for any software he installs on it. -- Simon Hobson Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Jonathan Tripathy wrote:>But surly if I''m only offering the basic distro, it is up to my >customer to pay for any non-free software, right? > >Of course all Linux distro allow you to install non-free software, >however it''s ok for my customers to do it, isn''t it?That depends on the terms of the contract between you and your customer. I you are renting them a base "free only" VM then it would be reasonable to make it a contract term that the customers deals with licensing for any software he installs on it. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This sounds fair enough. Are you aware of any software which would cause problems in this area? For example, they would be allowed to install Oracle or MYSQL on a rented VM, provided they were in control of it, right? As for the "free only" base image, that would just be a standard PV install of Ubuntu/Debian/CentOS, right? Thanks _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
>>> On 2010/06/09 at 16:14, Bart Coninckx <bart.coninckx@telenet.be> wrote: > Even the suse one is free, you just pay for support and updates. At least > this how it was for sles10. >That''s correct...still that way. -Nick -------- This e-mail may contain confidential and privileged material for the sole use of the intended recipient. If this email is not intended for you, or you are not responsible for the delivery of this message to the intended recipient, please note that this message may contain SEAKR Engineering (SEAKR) Privileged/Proprietary Information. In such a case, you are strictly prohibited from downloading, photocopying, distributing or otherwise using this message, its contents or attachments in any way. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to this e-mail and delete the message from your mailbox. Information contained in this message that does not relate to the business of SEAKR is neither endorsed by nor attributable to SEAKR. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users
Jonathan Tripathy wrote:>Are you aware of any software which would cause problems in this >area? For example, they would be allowed to install Oracle or MYSQL >on a rented VM, provided they were in control of it, right?Yes, Oracle would be an example of something that would require a paid-for licence. MySQL could be free or paid for depending on the version they install. Then there are other things like some media applications. Technically, if you (or rather your client) uses MP3 then Fraunhoffer want a fee to licence their patents to you - even though the software itself may be free and open. The same may apply in other areas - CF the debate about video encoding standards and Google''s recent open-sourcing of VP8. But you should not have to worry about that as long as you just rent a base (all free) system and make it a contractual thing that your customers are responsible for licensing on their system.>As for the "free only" base image, that would just be a standard PV >install of Ubuntu/Debian/CentOS, right?Debian is all free by default (ie unless you enable the non-free repository. Not sure about Ubuntu (I assume it''s the same). No idea about CentOS, not one I use. -- Simon Hobson Visit http://www.magpiesnestpublishing.co.uk/ for books by acclaimed author Gladys Hobson. Novels - poetry - short stories - ideal as Christmas stocking fillers. Some available as e-books. _______________________________________________ Xen-users mailing list Xen-users@lists.xensource.com http://lists.xensource.com/xen-users