zfs discuss - Apr 2010 - recomend sata controller 4 Home server with zfs raidz2 and 8x1tb hd

hi all 

im brand new to opensolaris ... feel free to call me noob :)

i need to build a home server for media and general storage

zfs sound like the perfect solution

but i need to buy a 8 (or more) SATA controller

any suggestions for compatible 2 opensolaris products will be really appreciated

for the moment made a silly purchase spending 250 euros on lsi megaraid 8208elp
which
is SR and not compatible with OpenSolaris...

thanx in advance
G
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 12:21 AM, george <bml at otenet.gr> wrote:
> hi all
>
> im brand new to opensolaris ... feel free to call me noob :)
>
> i need to build a home server for media and general storage
>
> zfs sound like the perfect solution
>
> but i need to buy a 8 (or more) SATA controller
>
> any suggestions for compatible 2 opensolaris products will be really
> appreciated
>
> for the moment made a silly purchase spending 250 euros on lsi megaraid
> 8208elp which
> is SR and not compatible with OpenSolaris...
>
> thanx in advance
> G
>
>
Depends on what sort of interface you''re looking for.  The supermicro
AOC-SAT2-MV8''s work great.  They''re pci-x based.  8-ports,
come with SATA
cables, and are relatively cheap (<$150 most places).

--Tim
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hello

if you are looking for pci-e (8x), i would recommend sas/sata  controller
with lsi 1068E sas chip. they are nearly perfect with opensolaris.

you must look for controller with it firmware (jbod mode) not
those with raid enabled (ir mode). normally the cheaper
variants are the right ones.

one of the cheapest at all any my favourite is the supermicro usas-l8i
http://www.supermicro.com/products/accessories/addon/AOC-USAS-L8i.cfm
(about 100 euro in germany)

although it is uio (wrong side mounted for special supermicro cases),
it''s normally not a problem because it''s internal only.
(you will loose one slot normally)

see my hardware 
http://www.napp-it.org/hardware/

gea
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 1:57 AM, G?nther <alka at hfg-gmuend.de> wrote:
> hello
>
> if you are looking for pci-e (8x), i would recommend sas/sata  controller
> with lsi 1068E sas chip. they are nearly perfect with opensolaris.
>
> you must look for controller with it firmware (jbod mode) not
> those with raid enabled (ir mode). normally the cheaper
> variants are the right ones.
>
> one of the cheapest at all any my favourite is the supermicro usas-l8i
> http://www.supermicro.com/products/accessories/addon/AOC-USAS-L8i.cfm
> (about 100 euro in germany)
>
> although it is uio (wrong side mounted for special supermicro cases),
> it''s normally not a problem because it''s internal only.
> (you will loose one slot normally)
>
> see my hardware
> http://www.napp-it.org/hardware/
>
> gea
> --
>
>
The firmware can be flashed regardless of what the card came with.  Why
would you buy the UIO card when you can get the intel SASUC8i for the same
price/cheaper and it comes in a standard form factor?

The (potential) problem with the 1068 cards is that they don''t support
AHCI
with SATA.

--Tim
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On Thu, Apr 15 at 23:57, G?nther wrote:
>hello
>
>if you are looking for pci-e (8x), i would recommend sas/sata  controller
>with lsi 1068E sas chip. they are nearly perfect with opensolaris.
For just a bit more, you can get the LSI SAS 9211-9i card which is
6Gbit/s.  It works fine for us, and does JBOD no problem.

-- 
Eric D. Mudama
edmudama at mail.bounceswoosh.org

"Eric D. Mudama" <edmudama at bounceswoosh.org> writes:
> On Thu, Apr 15 at 23:57, G?nther wrote:
>>hello
>>
>>if you are looking for pci-e (8x), i would recommend sas/sata 
controller
>>with lsi 1068E sas chip. they are nearly perfect with opensolaris.
>
> For just a bit more, you can get the LSI SAS 9211-9i card which is
> 6Gbit/s.  It works fine for us, and does JBOD no problem.
I can''t resist getting in a similar questions here.  Its not so easy
to really get good info about this subject... there is a lot of info
on the subject but when you remove all pci-e info .. maybe not so
much.

I will be needing a 4 or more port PCI sata controller soon and would
like to get one that can make use of the newest sata (alleged) 3GB
transfer rates.

It''s older base hardware... athlon64 3400+ 2.2 ghz  3GB Ram
With A-open AK86-L Motherboard.

So what do any of you know about a PCI card that fills the bill?

On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Harry Putnam <reader at newsguy.com>
wrote:
> "Eric D. Mudama" <edmudama at bounceswoosh.org> writes:
>
> > On Thu, Apr 15 at 23:57, G?nther wrote:
> >>hello
> >>
> >>if you are looking for pci-e (8x), i would recommend sas/sata 
controller
> >>with lsi 1068E sas chip. they are nearly perfect with opensolaris.
> >
> > For just a bit more, you can get the LSI SAS 9211-9i card which is
> > 6Gbit/s.  It works fine for us, and does JBOD no problem.
>
> I can''t resist getting in a similar questions here.  Its not so
easy
> to really get good info about this subject... there is a lot of info
> on the subject but when you remove all pci-e info .. maybe not so
> much.
>
> I will be needing a 4 or more port PCI sata controller soon and would
> like to get one that can make use of the newest sata (alleged) 3GB
> transfer rates.
>
> It''s older base hardware... athlon64 3400+ 2.2 ghz  3GB Ram
> With A-open AK86-L Motherboard.
>
> So what do any of you know about a PCI card that fills the bill?
>
>
>
If you''re talking about standard PCI, and not PCI-e or PCI-X,
there''s no
reason to try to get a faster controller.  A standard PCI slot can''t
even
max out the first revision of SATA.

--Tim
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Tim Cook <tim at cook.ms> writes:
> On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Harry Putnam <reader at newsguy.com>
wrote:
>
>> "Eric D. Mudama" <edmudama at bounceswoosh.org> writes:
>>
>> > On Thu, Apr 15 at 23:57, G?nther wrote:
>> >>hello
>> >>
>> >>if you are looking for pci-e (8x), i would recommend sas/sata 
controller
>> >>with lsi 1068E sas chip. they are nearly perfect with
opensolaris.
>> >
>> > For just a bit more, you can get the LSI SAS 9211-9i card which is
>> > 6Gbit/s.  It works fine for us, and does JBOD no problem.
>>
>> I can''t resist getting in a similar questions here.  Its not
so easy
>> to really get good info about this subject... there is a lot of info
>> on the subject but when you remove all pci-e info .. maybe not so
>> much.
>>
>> I will be needing a 4 or more port PCI sata controller soon and would
>> like to get one that can make use of the newest sata (alleged) 3GB
>> transfer rates.
>>
>> It''s older base hardware... athlon64 3400+ 2.2 ghz  3GB Ram
>> With A-open AK86-L Motherboard.
>>
>> So what do any of you know about a PCI card that fills the bill?
>>
>>
>>
> If you''re talking about standard PCI, and not PCI-e or PCI-X,
there''s no
> reason to try to get a faster controller.  A standard PCI slot
can''t even
> max out the first revision of SATA.
Ahh good to know.  So will sata2 drives have any trouble with a plain
pci sata controller.

I have no option for pci-e or whatever.  just PCI.  And I need at
least a 4 port, whether its faster or not.

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Harry Putnam <reader at newsguy.com>
wrote:
> Tim Cook <tim at cook.ms> writes:
>
> > On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Harry Putnam <reader at
newsguy.com>
> wrote:
> >
> >> "Eric D. Mudama" <edmudama at bounceswoosh.org>
writes:
> >>
> >> > On Thu, Apr 15 at 23:57, G?nther wrote:
> >> >>hello
> >> >>
> >> >>if you are looking for pci-e (8x), i would recommend
sas/sata
>  controller
> >> >>with lsi 1068E sas chip. they are nearly perfect with
opensolaris.
> >> >
> >> > For just a bit more, you can get the LSI SAS 9211-9i card
which is
> >> > 6Gbit/s.  It works fine for us, and does JBOD no problem.
> >>
> >> I can''t resist getting in a similar questions here.  Its
not so easy
> >> to really get good info about this subject... there is a lot of
info
> >> on the subject but when you remove all pci-e info .. maybe not so
> >> much.
> >>
> >> I will be needing a 4 or more port PCI sata controller soon and
would
> >> like to get one that can make use of the newest sata (alleged) 3GB
> >> transfer rates.
> >>
> >> It''s older base hardware... athlon64 3400+ 2.2 ghz  3GB
Ram
> >> With A-open AK86-L Motherboard.
> >>
> >> So what do any of you know about a PCI card that fills the bill?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> > If you''re talking about standard PCI, and not PCI-e or PCI-X,
there''s no
> > reason to try to get a faster controller.  A standard PCI slot
can''t even
> > max out the first revision of SATA.
>
> Ahh good to know.  So will sata2 drives have any trouble with a plain
> pci sata controller.
>
> I have no option for pci-e or whatever.  just PCI.  And I need at
> least a 4 port, whether its faster or not.
>
>
They''ll work just fine, they''ll just be very, very slow. 
IIRC, standard PCI
is limited to 33MB/sec.

--Tim
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On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 15:19, Tim Cook <tim at cook.ms> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 2:12 PM, Harry Putnam <reader at newsguy.com>
wrote:
>
>> Tim Cook <tim at cook.ms> writes:
>>
>> > On Fri, Apr 16, 2010 at 7:35 PM, Harry Putnam <reader at
newsguy.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> >> "Eric D. Mudama" <edmudama at
bounceswoosh.org> writes:
>> >>
>> >> > On Thu, Apr 15 at 23:57, G?nther wrote:
>> >> >>hello
>> >> >>
>> >> >>if you are looking for pci-e (8x), i would recommend
sas/sata
>>  controller
>> >> >>with lsi 1068E sas chip. they are nearly perfect with
opensolaris.
>> >> >
>> >> > For just a bit more, you can get the LSI SAS 9211-9i card
which is
>> >> > 6Gbit/s.  It works fine for us, and does JBOD no problem.
>> >>
>> >> I can''t resist getting in a similar questions here. 
Its not so easy
>> >> to really get good info about this subject... there is a lot
of info
>> >> on the subject but when you remove all pci-e info .. maybe not
so
>> >> much.
>> >>
>> >> I will be needing a 4 or more port PCI sata controller soon
and would
>> >> like to get one that can make use of the newest sata (alleged)
3GB
>> >> transfer rates.
>> >>
>> >> It''s older base hardware... athlon64 3400+ 2.2 ghz 
3GB Ram
>> >> With A-open AK86-L Motherboard.
>> >>
>> >> So what do any of you know about a PCI card that fills the
bill?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> > If you''re talking about standard PCI, and not PCI-e or
PCI-X, there''s no
>> > reason to try to get a faster controller.  A standard PCI slot
can''t
>> even
>> > max out the first revision of SATA.
>>
>> Ahh good to know.  So will sata2 drives have any trouble with a plain
>> pci sata controller.
>>
>> I have no option for pci-e or whatever.  just PCI.  And I need at
>> least a 4 port, whether its faster or not.
>>
>>
> They''ll work just fine, they''ll just be very, very slow. 
IIRC, standard
> PCI is limited to 33MB/sec.
>
> --Tim
>
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>
>
>From wikipedia, PCI is
133 MB <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabyte>/s (32-bit at 33 MHz)
266 MB/s (32-bit at 66 MHz or 64-bit at 33 MHz)
533 MB/s (64-bit at 66 MHz)

Not quite the 3GB/s hoped for. But how fast do drives themselves tend to be?
I rarely see above 80-100MB/s, although my drives are just
consumer-level 7200RPM ones - nothing brilliant.
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On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 05:36:19PM -0400, Ethan wrote:
> >From wikipedia, PCI is
> 133 MB <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megabyte>/s (32-bit at 33 MHz)
> 266 MB/s (32-bit at 66 MHz or 64-bit at 33 MHz)
> 533 MB/s (64-bit at 66 MHz)
> 
> Not quite the 3GB/s hoped for.
Not quite, but somewhat closer to the 3Gb/s actually at issue, even if
still not quite close enough. (Please don''t confuse bits and bytes).

--
Dan.
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Since we''re talking about an old PCI slot here, I''d say
there''s really
two good options:

A SiliconImage Sil3114-based card, which is a 32-bit/66Mhz card, with 4 
SATA-1 ports, usually for $25

A Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 card, which is a 64-bit/100Mhz PCI-X card (but 
will fit and run just fine in a 32-bit PCI slot).  it has 8 SATA-2 
ports, and runs $125.


I''ve had no problems with either card, and run both for quite awhile.
Even though the 3114 is a SATA-1 card, you should be OK, since it''s
more
than fast enough to keep up with the PCI bus with 4 HDs attached. Really 
the two "issues" with this card are that it should NEVER be used for
an
SSD (it''s way to slow), and that it doesn''t really support
Hot-Swap of
SATA drives well.  Theoretically, using a SATA-1 HBA will limit your 
burst throughput to the drives, but the 3114 handles sustained I/O at 
about the PCI bus'' maximum limit, so I wouldn''t worry.


The Supermicro is better in that it takes up a single slot, uses SATA2, 
and does support hotswap very well, but once again, don''t even think 
about using SSD, as the PCI bus gets overwhelmed well before you notice 
any performance increase.


There''s also the Sil3124 (the SATA-2 version of the 3114), but IIRC, 
that card is less stable under OpenSolaris, and, given the limitations 
of the PCI bus, I wouldn''t bother.


Bottom line:  if you can live without true hot-swap capability (i.e. 
shutdown the machine to change a drive), then save yourself $75 and go 
with 2 3114 cards.

-- 
Erik Trimble
Java System Support
Mailstop:  usca22-123
Phone:  x17195
Santa Clara, CA
Timezone: US/Pacific (GMT-0800)

On Sat, Apr 17, 2010 at 21:48, Erik Trimble <erik.trimble at oracle.com>
wrote:
> Since we''re talking about an old PCI slot here, I''d say
there''s really two
> good options:
>
> A SiliconImage Sil3114-based card, which is a 32-bit/66Mhz card, with 4
> SATA-1 ports, usually for $25
>
> A Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 card, which is a 64-bit/100Mhz PCI-X card (but
> will fit and run just fine in a 32-bit PCI slot).  it has 8 SATA-2 ports,
> and runs $125.
>
>
> I''ve had no problems with either card, and run both for quite
awhile.
> Even though the 3114 is a SATA-1 card, you should be OK, since
it''s more
> than fast enough to keep up with the PCI bus with 4 HDs attached. Really
the
> two "issues" with this card are that it should NEVER be used for
an SSD
> (it''s way to slow), and that it doesn''t really support
Hot-Swap of SATA
> drives well.  Theoretically, using a SATA-1 HBA will limit your burst
> throughput to the drives, but the 3114 handles sustained I/O at about the
> PCI bus'' maximum limit, so I wouldn''t worry.
>
>
> The Supermicro is better in that it takes up a single slot, uses SATA2, and
> does support hotswap very well, but once again, don''t even think
about using
> SSD, as the PCI bus gets overwhelmed well before you notice any performance
> increase.
>
>
> There''s also the Sil3124 (the SATA-2 version of the 3114), but
IIRC, that
> card is less stable under OpenSolaris, and, given the limitations of the
PCI
> bus, I wouldn''t bother.
>
>
> Bottom line:  if you can live without true hot-swap capability (i.e.
> shutdown the machine to change a drive), then save yourself $75 and go with
> 2 3114 cards.
>
> --
> Erik Trimble
> Java System Support
> Mailstop:  usca22-123
> Phone:  x17195
> Santa Clara, CA
> Timezone: US/Pacific (GMT-0800)
>
>
I have a number of SiI 3114 cards, and they are decent, basic cards. I had
to update their firmware to ide version instead of raid version to get them
working with opensolaris, which was a bit of a pain, but no problems since
then.

This controller does use the pci-ide driver, which I''ve had issues with
misreporting the size of my drives (I mention that in this message
http://www.archivum.info/zfs-discuss at
opensolaris.org/2010-03/00325/(zfs-discuss)-zpool-will-not-import-on-a-different-controller.html
).
That''s a major problem if you move an existing pool from something that
reports drive size correctly onto something that uses this driver, as I
tried to do, but should be no problem if you create a pool on this
controller to start with.
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Erik Trimble <erik.trimble at oracle.com> writes:
> Since we''re talking about an old PCI slot here, I''d say
there''s really
> two good options:
>
> A SiliconImage Sil3114-based card, which is a 32-bit/66Mhz card, with
> 4 SATA-1 ports, usually for $25
>
> A Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 card, which is a 64-bit/100Mhz PCI-X card
> (but will fit and run just fine in a 32-bit PCI slot).  it has 8
> SATA-2 
> ports, and runs $125.
>
[...] snipped excellent input (Thank you for adding some really useful
      info)
> There''s also the Sil3124 (the SATA-2 version of the 3114), but
IIRC,
> that card is less stable under OpenSolaris, and, given the limitations
> of the PCI bus, I wouldn''t bother.
> Bottom line:  if you can live without true hot-swap capability
> (i.e. shutdown the machine to change a drive), then save yourself $75
> and go with 2 3114 cards.
That sounds like it would do all I need.  I currently have the 3114s''
little sister in there:

   pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x08 function 0x00: vendor 0x1095 device 0x3112
   Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3112 [SATALink/SATARaid] Serial ATA
   Controller

And had not noticed any particular sloth..  but then I''ve never been
on a seriously tweaked out hard core machine... so it may be really
slow for all I know.

Do you think it would be a problem having a second sata card in a PCI
slot?  That would be 8 sata ports in all, since the A-open AK86
motherboard has 2 built in.  Or should I swap out the 2prt for the 4
prt.  I really only need 2 more prts currently, but would be nice to
have a couple still open for the future.

Erik T. writes:
> The Supermicro is better in that it takes up a single slot, uses
> SATA2, and does support hotswap very well, but once again, don''t
even
> think about using SSD, as the PCI bus gets overwhelmed well before you
> notice any performance increase.
Well that would solve the `for future use'' issue.
What do you mean it takes up a single slot?  Don''t all pci cards do
that? 
> A Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 card, which is a 64-bit/100Mhz PCI-X card
> (but will fit and run just fine in a 32-bit PCI slot).  it has 8
> SATA-2
Near as I can tell from the A-Open AK86 manual, the pci slots are
spec''ed at 32 bit with 33 Mhz clock speed and throughput rate of 133
MB. 

So does that mean the higher speed of AOC-SAT2-MV8 card would not be
available? 

I''m not very knowledgeable about the various  PCI+* cards available.

Does the contact portion of the AOC-SAT2-MV8 card look quite different
from old style PCI but just doesn''t use all the contacts in the female
receptacle?  Or does the contact portion look the same as old
style pci.

-------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      -------- 
Ethan wrote:

[...]
> I have a number of SiI 3114 cards, and they are decent, basic cards. I had
> to update their firmware to ide version instead of raid version to get them
> working with opensolaris, which was a bit of a pain, but no problems since
> then.
[...] More excellent input snipped (Thank you)

I''m not sure I follow what you are talking about there.  I''m
using the
2 prt version of that card, and didn''t do any updating or whatever.
It just worked.  I do remember fussing a bit getting the drives to show
up, but as I recall (And its been long enough ago that recollections
could be badly skewed) that was a bios setting.

>From wikipedia, PCI is 
133 MB /s (32-bit at 33 MHz) 266 MB/s (32-bit at 66 MHz or 64-bit at 33 MHz) 
533 MB/s (64-bit at 66 MHz) 


Not quite the 3GB/s hoped for. But how fast do drives themselves tend to be? I
rarely see above 80-100MB/s, although my drives are just consumer-level 7200RPM
ones - nothing brilliant.
Most cheap drives max out at around 100MB/s and for general use 50-70MB/s. You
probably don''t have a 33MHz PCI system, 66MHz was standardised at PCI
2.1 IIRC, and that was a long time ago. 64bit is available on PCI-X only, and
you''ll see the difference easily. PCI-X also has 100MHz and 133MHz
systems, which is nice.

Real-world performance for 8x1TB in RAIDz2 is likely to be good anyway, even
with old PCI

Best regards 

roy 


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Harry Putnam wrote:
> Erik Trimble <erik.trimble at oracle.com> writes:
>   
>> Bottom line:  if you can live without true hot-swap capability
>> (i.e. shutdown the machine to change a drive), then save yourself $75
>> and go with 2 3114 cards.
>>     
>
> That sounds like it would do all I need.  I currently have the
3114s''
> little sister in there:
>
>    pci bus 0x0000 cardnum 0x08 function 0x00: vendor 0x1095 device 0x3112
>    Silicon Image, Inc. SiI 3112 [SATALink/SATARaid] Serial ATA
>    Controller
>
> And had not noticed any particular sloth..  but then I''ve never
been
> on a seriously tweaked out hard core machine... so it may be really
> slow for all I know.
>
> Do you think it would be a problem having a second sata card in a PCI
> slot?  That would be 8 sata ports in all, since the A-open AK86
> motherboard has 2 built in.  Or should I swap out the 2prt for the 4
> prt.  I really only need 2 more prts currently, but would be nice to
> have a couple still open for the future.
>   
Your PCI bus bandwidth is shared, so it doesn''t matter if you use 3 x 
2port cards, or 2 x 4port cards (or, in your case, 1x2port + 1x4port). 
Performance is going to be virtually identical.


> Erik T. writes:
>   
>> The Supermicro is better in that it takes up a single slot, uses
>> SATA2, and does support hotswap very well, but once again,
don''t even
>> think about using SSD, as the PCI bus gets overwhelmed well before you
>> notice any performance increase.
>>     
>
> Well that would solve the `for future use'' issue.
> What do you mean it takes up a single slot?  Don''t all pci cards
do
> that? 
>   
I was referring to using 1 SuperMicro card instead of 2 3114-cards.   
They''re all just single-slot cards.

>> A Supermicro AOC-SAT2-MV8 card, which is a 64-bit/100Mhz PCI-X card
>> (but will fit and run just fine in a 32-bit PCI slot).  it has 8
>> SATA-2
>>     
>
> Near as I can tell from the A-Open AK86 manual, the pci slots are
> spec''ed at 32 bit with 33 Mhz clock speed and throughput rate of
133
> MB. 
>
> So does that mean the higher speed of AOC-SAT2-MV8 card would not be
> available? 
>
> I''m not very knowledgeable about the various  PCI+* cards
available.
>
> Does the contact portion of the AOC-SAT2-MV8 card look quite different
> from old style PCI but just doesn''t use all the contacts in the
female
> receptacle?  Or does the contact portion look the same as old
> style pci.
>
>   
That right - PCI is a fully backwards compatible standard.  The contact 
portion is correctly keyed so it fully fits in your PCI slot, with some 
extra portion hanging over the back side - don''t worry about it,
that''s
correct usage.  One thing to note:  your motherboard uses 5V PCI slots 
(note the small notch in each PCI slots towards the front of the MB).  
The 3114 and AOC cards are both "universal" PCI cards, in that they
will
work in both a 5v and a 3.3V slot, but be careful - many other PCI cards 
are 3.3V (the newer standard).  They have a notch in the slot towards 
the back of the MB.

Take a look here:    
http://www.thgtr.com/motherboard/20040308/images/pcis.gif


So, yes, given your motherboard, any card which you plug into it will 
run at 33Mhz, transferring data 32-bits wide.  So the SuperMicro''s
extra
bandwidth is wasted.


> -------        ---------       ---=---       ---------      -------- 
> Ethan wrote:
>   
>> I have a number of SiI 3114 cards, and they are decent, basic cards. I
had
>> to update their firmware to ide version instead of raid version to get
them
>> working with opensolaris, which was a bit of a pain, but no problems
since
>> then.
>>     
>
> [...] More excellent input snipped (Thank you)
>
> I''m not sure I follow what you are talking about there. 
I''m using the
> 2 prt version of that card, and didn''t do any updating or
whatever.
> It just worked.  I do remember fussing a bit getting the drives to show
> up, but as I recall (And its been long enough ago that recollections
> could be badly skewed) that was a bios setting.
>   
Many of the 3114 cards come with the "RAID" bios.  You want to get rid
of this, and flash to the "IDE" firmware (available from
SiliconImage''s
web site).  All 3114 cards can take either bios, so it''s not something 
you have to be careful about when buying the actual card.   Most of the 
2-port cards didn''t have this issue. 


-- 
Erik Trimble
Java System Support
Mailstop:  usca22-123
Phone:  x17195
Santa Clara, CA
Timezone: US/Pacific (GMT-0800)

----- "Harry Putnam" <reader at newsguy.com> skrev:
> Erik Trimble <erik.trimble at oracle.com> writes:
> 
> >> Do you think it would be a problem having a second sata card in a
> PCI
> >> slot?  That would be 8 sata ports in all, since the A-open AK86
> >> motherboard has 2 built in.  Or should I swap out the 2prt for the
> 4
> >> prt.  I really only need 2 more prts currently, but would be nice
> to
> >> have a couple still open for the future.
> >>   
> > Your PCI bus bandwidth is shared, so it doesn''t matter if you
use 3
> x
> > 2port cards, or 2 x 4port cards (or, in your case, 1x2port +
> > 1x4port). Performance is going to be virtually identical.
> 
> Thanks.
> So performance with drop as number of drives increases?
Performance is likely to drop with the number of PCI cards on the same bridge.
Some motherboards have multiple PCI bridges, but mostly on more expensive server
boards (those with PCI-X etc). Performance will probably be limited to the
(theoretical) 133/266MB/s plus overhead with more PCI cards. I''d say
get an 8-port card to get the best out of it. I would guess your motherboard
supports 66MHz, since that came in PCI 2.1 (from wikipedia PCI 2.1, released on
June 1, 1995, allows for 66 MHz signaling at 3.3 volt signal voltage (peak
transfer rate of 533 MB/s), but at 33 MHz both 5 volt and 3.3 volt signal
voltages are still allowed. It also added transaction latency limits to the
specification.[7]).

roy

Erik Trimble <erik.trimble at oracle.com> writes:
>> Do you think it would be a problem having a second sata card in a PCI
>> slot?  That would be 8 sata ports in all, since the A-open AK86
>> motherboard has 2 built in.  Or should I swap out the 2prt for the 4
>> prt.  I really only need 2 more prts currently, but would be nice to
>> have a couple still open for the future.
>>   
> Your PCI bus bandwidth is shared, so it doesn''t matter if you use
3 x
> 2port cards, or 2 x 4port cards (or, in your case, 1x2port +
> 1x4port). Performance is going to be virtually identical.
Thanks.
So performance with drop as number of drives increases?

Harry Putnam wrote:
> Erik Trimble <erik.trimble at oracle.com> writes:
>
>   
>>> Do you think it would be a problem having a second sata card in a
PCI
>>> slot?  That would be 8 sata ports in all, since the A-open AK86
>>> motherboard has 2 built in.  Or should I swap out the 2prt for the
4
>>> prt.  I really only need 2 more prts currently, but would be nice
to
>>> have a couple still open for the future.
>>>   
>>>       
>> Your PCI bus bandwidth is shared, so it doesn''t matter if you
use 3 x
>> 2port cards, or 2 x 4port cards (or, in your case, 1x2port +
>> 1x4port). Performance is going to be virtually identical.
>>     
>
> Thanks.
> So performance with drop as number of drives increases?
>   
Bus bandwidth is the limiting factor here (that is, the technology and 
speed available to move data from the Host Bus Adapter to Main Memory).

In your case, with the severely limited amount of (PCI) bus bandwidth, 
you''ll reach the maximum performance level for your drives relatively 
quickly - your 8-drive config will easily out-perform the available bus 
bandwidth (in fact, 4 drives likely could  fully utilize the bus).

As  noted by Roy in another post, PCI is a share-bandwidth technology, 
so having multiple cards in a system reduces the total usable bandwidth, 
in the same manner that having multiple connections to an Ethernet Hub 
reduces the general available bandwidth (contention between each card 
for access to the PCI bus causes a reduction in the overall throughput).

In your case, you''ve likely already got bus contention with the 
integrated peripherals competing for the PCI slot''s bandwidth, so the 
difference in performance between a 2 4-port cards and a 1 8-port card 
isn''t going to be realistically noticeable.

For more modern PCI-Express layouts, x4 and x8 lane setups can easily 
handle 20 or more hard drives without becoming saturated.

The bottom line here is that you''ve got a Chevy Nova of a PC, and it
ain''t ever going to perform like a Mustang, let alone a Ferrari, so
don''t worry too much about the performance issues of your parts - the
system bottlenecks are elsewhere, and not fixable (short of replacing the entire
MB/CPU/ etc).

Personally, I''d be surprised if you could get it to keep up with a
fully-utilized Gigabit ethernet interface. However, it should have no problem
keeping up with the Fast Ethernet interface on the MB.


-- 
Erik Trimble
Java System Support
Mailstop:  usca22-123
Phone:  x17195
Santa Clara, CA
Timezone: US/Pacific (GMT-0800)

On Monday, April 19, 2010, Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk <roy at karlsbakk.net>
wrote:
> ----- "Harry Putnam" <reader at newsguy.com> skrev:
>
>> Erik Trimble <erik.trimble at oracle.com> writes:
>>
>> >> Do you think it would be a problem having a second sata card
in a
>> PCI
>> >> slot? ?That would be 8 sata ports in all, since the A-open
AK86
>> >> motherboard has 2 built in. ?Or should I swap out the 2prt for
the
>> 4
>> >> prt. ?I really only need 2 more prts currently, but would be
nice
>> to
>> >> have a couple still open for the future.
>> >>
>> > Your PCI bus bandwidth is shared, so it doesn''t matter if
you use 3
>> x
>> > 2port cards, or 2 x 4port cards (or, in your case, 1x2port +
>> > 1x4port). Performance is going to be virtually identical.
>>
>> Thanks.
>> So performance with drop as number of drives increases?
>
> Performance is likely to drop with the number of PCI cards on the same
bridge. Some motherboards have multiple PCI bridges, but mostly on more
expensive server boards (those with PCI-X etc). Performance will probably be
limited to the (theoretical) 133/266MB/s plus overhead with more PCI cards.
I''d say get an 8-port card to get the best out of it. I would guess
your motherboard supports 66MHz, since that came in PCI 2.1 (from wikipedia PCI
2.1, released on June 1, 1995, allows for 66 MHz signaling at 3.3 volt signal
voltage (peak transfer rate of 533 MB/s), but at 33 MHz both 5 volt and 3.3 volt
signal voltages are still allowed. It also added transaction latency limits to
the specification.[7]).
>
> roy
> _______________________________________________
> zfs-discuss mailing list
> zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org
> http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
>
I''d be shocked to see 66mhz on a consumer board. In fact, i''d
be
shocked to see a 66mhz 32bit bus period.

--Tim