Hi All, I am about to setup a personal data server on some decent hardware (1u SuperServer, Xeon, LSI SAS controller, SAS backplane). Well at least, it''s decent hardware to me. :) After reading Richard''s blog post, I''m still a little unsure how to proceed. Details: - I have 8 drives to play with on the systems backplane; - Reliability over performance (320G 2.5" 5400 RPM SATA drives) - High-availability is not required, but I want the data to be as safe as possible (real backups will be infrequent and difficult) - Potentially, I can add a ninth SATA drive by using some fancy bracket to replace the slim DVD that will be hard to source These are the options I have figured out so far: 1. 2 mirrored drives for the root pool, 6 drives in raidz2 for the tank 2. 4 pairs of mirrored drives for a single pool that would also be root, but I think I can''t boot from that, right? 3. 1 non-redundant drive for root pool, 7 drives in raidz2 for the tank, backup the root pool regularly 4. Use a CompactFlash card (the board has a slot) for root, 8 drives in raidz2 tank, backup the root regularly 5. Figure out how to have only the kernel and bootloader on the CF card in order to have root on the raidz2 tank 5.5. Figure out how to have the kernel and bootloader on the CF card in order to have 4 pairs of mirrored drives in a tank, supposing #2 doesn''t work Comments, suggestions, questions, criticism? Thanks, A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Adam Sherman wrote:> 4. Use a CompactFlash card (the board has a slot) for root, 8 drives in > raidz2 tank, backup the root regularlyIf booting/running from CompactFlash works, then I like this one. Backing up root should be trivial since you can back it up into your big storage pool. Usually root contains mostly non-critical data. The nice SAS backplane seems too precious to waste for booting. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
On 4-Aug-09, at 16:08 , Bob Friesenhahn wrote:> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Adam Sherman wrote: >> 4. Use a CompactFlash card (the board has a slot) for root, 8 >> drives in raidz2 tank, backup the root regularly > > If booting/running from CompactFlash works, then I like this one. > Backing up root should be trivial since you can back it up into your > big storage pool. Usually root contains mostly non-critical data. > The nice SAS backplane seems too precious to waste for booting.Do you know if it is possible to put just grub, stage2, kernel on the CF card, instead of the entire root? Thanks for the response, A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
I''d create a mirror for rpool and the rest in another pool using raidz2. Another note, have you bought disks already? You may want to take a look at 2.5" SAS disks from Seagate as they are enterprise grade with different firmware for better error recovery. I know the SAS backplane is picky sometimes. You may see disks disconnected with consumer level disks. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org
Adam Sherman wrote:> On 4-Aug-09, at 16:08 , Bob Friesenhahn wrote: >> On Tue, 4 Aug 2009, Adam Sherman wrote: >>> 4. Use a CompactFlash card (the board has a slot) for root, 8 drives >>> in raidz2 tank, backup the root regularly >> >> If booting/running from CompactFlash works, then I like this one. >> Backing up root should be trivial since you can back it up into your >> big storage pool. Usually root contains mostly non-critical data. >> The nice SAS backplane seems too precious to waste for booting. > > > Do you know if it is possible to put just grub, stage2, kernel on the > CF card, instead of the entire root? >You can move some of root to another device, but I don''t think you can move the bulk - /usr. See: http://docs.sun.com/source/820-4893-13/compact_flash.html#50589713_78631 -- Ian.
On 4-Aug-09, at 16:18 , Chris Du wrote:> Another note, have you bought disks already? You may want to take a > look at 2.5" SAS disks from Seagate as they are enterprise grade > with different firmware for better error recovery. I know the SAS > backplane is picky sometimes. You may see disks disconnected with > consumer level disks.I have purchased the drives: $60 CDN each. The intention is to swap them for something better in the future. Which Seagates, the Constellation series? http://www.seagate.com/www/en-us/products/servers/constellation/constellation/ Those seem to be $350 CDN for the 500GB model, would have put this system way over budget. A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
Yes Constellation, they also have sata version. CA$350 is way too high. It''s CA$280 for SAS and CA$235 for SATA, 500GB in Vancouver. If you already have the disks, then forget about it. -- This message posted from opensolaris.org
i boot from compact flash. it''s not a big deal if you mirror it because you shouldn''t be booting up very often. Also, they make these great compactflash to sata adapters so if yer motherboard has 2 open sata ports then you''ll be golden there. On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:46 PM, Chris Du <no-reply at opensolaris.org> wrote:> Yes Constellation, they also have sata version. CA$350 is way too high. > It''s CA$280 for SAS and CA$235 for SATA, 500GB in Vancouver. > > If you already have the disks, then forget about it. > -- > This message posted from opensolaris.org > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090805/9b59f8a0/attachment.html>
On 5-Aug-09, at 0:14 , Thomas Burgess wrote:> i boot from compact flash. it''s not a big deal if you mirror it > because you shouldn''t be booting up very often. Also, they make > these great compactflash to sata adapters so if yer motherboard has > 2 open sata ports then you''ll be golden there.You are suggesting booting from a mirrored pair of CF cards? I''ll have to wait until I see the system to know if I have room, but that''s a good idea. I''ve got lots of unused SATA ports. Thanks, A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
On 4-Aug-09, at 19:46 , Chris Du wrote:> Yes Constellation, they also have sata version. CA$350 is way too > high. It''s CA$280 for SAS and CA$235 for SATA, 500GB in Vancouver.Wow, that is a much better price than I''ve seen: http://pricecanada.com/p.php/Seagate-Constellation-7200-500GB-7200-ST9500430SS-602367/?matched_search=ST9500430SS Which retailer is that? A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
i would be VERY surprised if you couldn''t fit these in there SOMEWHERE, the sata to compactflash adapter i got was about 1.75 inches across and very very thin, i was able to mount them side by side on top of the drive tray in my machine, you can easily make a bracket...i know a guy who used double sided tape! but, check out this picture http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812186051 most of them can be found like this, they are VERY VERY thin and can be mounted just about anywhere. they don''t get very hot. I''ve used them on a few machines, opensolaris and freebsd. I''m a big fan of compact flash. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 8:38 AM, Adam Sherman <asherman at versature.com> wrote:> On 5-Aug-09, at 0:14 , Thomas Burgess wrote: > >> i boot from compact flash. it''s not a big deal if you mirror it because >> you shouldn''t be booting up very often. Also, they make these great >> compactflash to sata adapters so if yer motherboard has 2 open sata ports >> then you''ll be golden there. >> > > You are suggesting booting from a mirrored pair of CF cards? I''ll have to > wait until I see the system to know if I have room, but that''s a good idea. > > I''ve got lots of unused SATA ports. > > Thanks, > > > A. > > -- > Adam Sherman > CTO, Versature Corp. > Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113 > > > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090805/6279fd3d/attachment.html>
On 5-Aug-09, at 12:07 , Thomas Burgess wrote:> i would be VERY surprised if you couldn''t fit these in there > SOMEWHERE, the sata to compactflash adapter i got was about 1.75 > inches across and very very thin, i was able to mount them side by > side on top of the drive tray in my machine, you can easily make a > bracket...i know a guy who used double sided tape! but, check out > this picturehttp://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812186051 > most of them can be found like this, they are VERY VERY thin and > can be mounted just about anywhere. they don''t get very hot. I''ve > used them on a few machines, opensolaris and freebsd. I''m a big > fan of compact flash.What about USB sticks? Is there a difference in practice? Thanks for the advice, A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Thomas Burgess wrote:> i would be VERY surprised if you couldn''t fit these in there SOMEWHERE, the > sata to compactflash adapter i got was about 1.75 inches across and very > very thin, i was able to mount them side by side on top of the drive tray in > my machine, you can easily make a bracket...i know a guy who used double > sided tape! but, check out this pictureQuite a few computers still come with a legacy PCI slot. Are there PCI cards which act as a carrier for one or two CompactFlash devices and support system boot? Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
On 5-Aug-09, at 12:21 , Bob Friesenhahn wrote:>> i would be VERY surprised if you couldn''t fit these in there >> SOMEWHERE, the >> sata to compactflash adapter i got was about 1.75 inches across and >> very >> very thin, i was able to mount them side by side on top of the >> drive tray in >> my machine, you can easily make a bracket...i know a guy who used >> double >> sided tape! but, check out this picture > > Quite a few computers still come with a legacy PCI slot. Are there > PCI cards which act as a carrier for one or two CompactFlash devices > and support system boot?That''s also a good idea. Of course, my system only has a single x16 PCI-E slot in it. :) A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
On Wed, 5 Aug 2009, Bob Friesenhahn wrote:> > Quite a few computers still come with a legacy PCI slot. Are there PCI cards > which act as a carrier for one or two CompactFlash devices and support system > boot?For example, does this product work well with OpenSolaris? Can it work as a boot device for OpenSolaris? http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812186075 It says that it uses a Sil0680 IDE chipset . Four Compact Flash cards can be mounted to one PCI card. It seems that this chipset does work with Solaris. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfriesen at simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer, http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/
> On 4-Aug-09, at 19:46 , Chris Du wrote: > > Yes Constellation, they also have sata version. > CA$350 is way too > > high. It''s CA$280 for SAS and CA$235 for SATA, > 500GB in Vancouver. > > > Wow, that is a much better price than I''ve seen: > > http://pricecanada.com/p.php/Seagate-Constellation-720 > 0-500GB-7200-ST9500430SS-602367/?matched_search=ST9500 > 430SS > > Which retailer is that? > > A. > > -- > Adam Sherman > CTO, Versature Corp. > Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113 > > > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discu > sshttp://a-power.com/product-11331-624-1 -- This message posted from opensolaris.org
On 4-Aug-09, at 16:54 , Ian Collins wrote:>>>> Use a CompactFlash card (the board has a slot) for root, 8 drives >>>> in raidz2 tank, backup the root regularly >>> >>> If booting/running from CompactFlash works, then I like this one. >>> Backing up root should be trivial since you can back it up into >>> your big storage pool. Usually root contains mostly non-critical >>> data. The nice SAS backplane seems too precious to waste for >>> booting. >> >> Do you know if it is possible to put just grub, stage2, kernel on >> the CF card, instead of the entire root? >> > You can move some of root to another device, but I don''t think you > can move the bulk - /usr. > > See: > > http://docs.sun.com/source/820-4893-13/compact_flash.html#50589713_78631Good link. So I suppose I can move /var out and that would deal with most (all?) of the writes. Good plan! A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on SOME machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to allow for usb booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i like compact flash because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap alternative to a hard drive. I mirror the cf drives exactly like they are hard drives so if one fails i just replace it. USB is a little harder to do that with because they are just not as consistent as compact flash. But honestly it should work and many people do this. On Wed, Aug 5, 2009 at 12:16 PM, Adam Sherman <asherman at versature.com>wrote:> On 5-Aug-09, at 12:07 , Thomas Burgess wrote: > >> i would be VERY surprised if you couldn''t fit these in there SOMEWHERE, >> the sata to compactflash adapter i got was about 1.75 inches across and very >> very thin, i was able to mount them side by side on top of the drive tray in >> my machine, you can easily make a bracket...i know a guy who used double >> sided tape! but, check out this picturehttp:// >> www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812186051 most of them >> can be found like this, they are VERY VERY thin and can be mounted just >> about anywhere. they don''t get very hot. I''ve used them on a few machines, >> opensolaris and freebsd. I''m a big fan of compact flash. >> > > > What about USB sticks? Is there a difference in practice? > > Thanks for the advice, > > > A. > > -- > Adam Sherman > CTO, Versature Corp. > Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113 > > > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090806/ae48c344/attachment.html>
On 6-Aug-09, at 11:32 , Thomas Burgess wrote:> i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on > SOME machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to allow > for usb booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i like > compact flash because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap > alternative to a hard drive. I mirror the cf drives exactly like > they are hard drives so if one fails i just replace it. USB is a > little harder to do that with because they are just not as > consistent as compact flash. But honestly it should work and many > people do this.This product looks really interesting: http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad2sahdcf.asp But I can''t confirm it will show both cards as separate disks? A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
Adam Sherman wrote:> On 6-Aug-09, at 11:32 , Thomas Burgess wrote: >> i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on >> SOME machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to allow >> for usb booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i like >> compact flash because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap alternative >> to a hard drive. I mirror the cf drives exactly like they are hard >> drives so if one fails i just replace it. USB is a little harder to >> do that with because they are just not as consistent as compact >> flash. But honestly it should work and many people do this. > > > This product looks really interesting: > > http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad2sahdcf.asp > > But I can''t confirm it will show both cards as separate disks?My read is that it won''t (which is supported by the single SATA data connector,) but it will do the mirroring for you. I know that I generally prefer to let XFS handle the redundancy for me, but for you it may be enough to let this do the mirroring for the root pool. It seems too expensive to get 2. Do they have a cheaper one that takes only 1 CF card? -Kyle> > A. > > -- > Adam Sherman > CTO, Versature Corp. > Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113 > > > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
On 6-Aug-09, at 11:50 , Kyle McDonald wrote:>>> i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on >>> SOME machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to >>> allow for usb booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i >>> like compact flash because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap >>> alternative to a hard drive. I mirror the cf drives exactly like >>> they are hard drives so if one fails i just replace it. USB is a >>> little harder to do that with because they are just not as >>> consistent as compact flash. But honestly it should work and many >>> people do this. >> >> This product looks really interesting: >> >> http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad2sahdcf.asp >> >> But I can''t confirm it will show both cards as separate disks? > My read is that it won''t (which is supported by the single SATA data > connector,) but it will do the mirroring for you.Turns out the FAQ page explains that it will not, too bad.> I know that I generally prefer to let ZFS handle the redundancy for > me, but for you it may be enough to let this do the mirroring for > the root pool.I''m with you there.> It seems too expensive to get 2. Do they have a cheaper one that > takes only 1 CF card?I just ordered a pair of the Syba units, cheap enough too test out anyway. Now to find some reasonably priced 8GB CompactFlash cards? Thanks, A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
i''ve seen these before, if i remember right, it has a jumper on it to set as a sort of onboard raid0 or raid1...i''m not sure it it has a jbod mode though....persoanlly i prefer the small single cf to sata adapters, you''d be surprised how thin they are, you can attatch them with screws or even hot glue or double sided tape...they are as thin as the cards themselves and 1.75 inches across so 2 of them will fit across a 3.5 drive tray. Depending on the case, you can often make a custom mount for them...i know i have with several cases...i''ve yet to find one i couldn''t fit them into SOMEWHERE> On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:43 AM, Adam Sherman <asherman at versature.com>wrote:> On 6-Aug-09, at 11:32 , Thomas Burgess wrote: > >> i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on SOME >> machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to allow for usb >> booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i like compact flash >> because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap alternative to a hard drive. I >> mirror the cf drives exactly like they are hard drives so if one fails i >> just replace it. USB is a little harder to do that with because they are >> just not as consistent as compact flash. But honestly it should work and >> many people do this. >> > > > This product looks really interesting: > > http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad2sahdcf.asp > > But I can''t confirm it will show both cards as separate disks? > > > A. > > -- > Adam Sherman > CTO, Versature Corp. > Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113 > > > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090806/40aece03/attachment.html>
Adam Sherman wrote:> On 6-Aug-09, at 11:50 , Kyle McDonald wrote: >>>> i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on >>>> SOME machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to >>>> allow for usb booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i >>>> like compact flash because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap >>>> alternative to a hard drive. I mirror the cf drives exactly like >>>> they are hard drives so if one fails i just replace it. USB is a >>>> little harder to do that with because they are just not as >>>> consistent as compact flash. But honestly it should work and many >>>> people do this. >>> >>> This product looks really interesting: >>> >>> http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad2sahdcf.asp >>> >>> But I can''t confirm it will show both cards as separate disks? >> My read is that it won''t (which is supported by the single SATA data >> connector,) but it will do the mirroring for you. > > Turns out the FAQ page explains that it will not, too bad. > >> I know that I generally prefer to let ZFS handle the redundancy for >> me, but for you it may be enough to let this do the mirroring for the >> root pool. > > I''m with you there. > >> It seems too expensive to get 2. Do they have a cheaper one that >> takes only 1 CF card? > > I just ordered a pair of the Syba units, cheap enough too test out > anyway.Oh. I was looking and if you have an IDE socket, this will do separate master/slave devices: (no IDE cable needed, it plugs right into the MB - There''s another that uses a cable if you prefer.) http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/adeb44idecf.asp And 2 of these (which look remarkably like the Syba ones) would work too: http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/adsahdcf.asp They''re only 30 each so 2 of those are less than the dual one. -Kyle> > Now to find some reasonably priced 8GB CompactFlash cards? > > Thanks, > > A. > > -- > Adam Sherman > CTO, Versature Corp. > Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113 > > >
if it''s this one http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812186051 it works perfectly. I''ve used them on several machines. They just show up as sata drives. That unit also has a very tiny red led that lights up....it''s QUITE bright....but you likely won''t see it if it''s inside the case. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:54 AM, Adam Sherman <asherman at versature.com>wrote:> On 6-Aug-09, at 11:50 , Kyle McDonald wrote: > >> i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on SOME >>>> machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to allow for usb >>>> booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i like compact flash >>>> because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap alternative to a hard drive. I >>>> mirror the cf drives exactly like they are hard drives so if one fails i >>>> just replace it. USB is a little harder to do that with because they are >>>> just not as consistent as compact flash. But honestly it should work and >>>> many people do this. >>>> >>> >>> This product looks really interesting: >>> >>> http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad2sahdcf.asp >>> >>> But I can''t confirm it will show both cards as separate disks? >>> >> My read is that it won''t (which is supported by the single SATA data >> connector,) but it will do the mirroring for you. >> > > Turns out the FAQ page explains that it will not, too bad. > > I know that I generally prefer to let ZFS handle the redundancy for me, >> but for you it may be enough to let this do the mirroring for the root pool. >> > > I''m with you there. > > It seems too expensive to get 2. Do they have a cheaper one that takes >> only 1 CF card? >> > > I just ordered a pair of the Syba units, cheap enough too test out anyway. > > Now to find some reasonably priced 8GB CompactFlash cards? > > Thanks, > > > A. > > -- > Adam Sherman > CTO, Versature Corp. > Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113 > > > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090806/86f0c66f/attachment.html>
I''ve had SOME problem with the ide ones in the past. It depends on the card you get with ide....the sata ones tend to work regardless...I''m not saying not to use ide, i''m just saying you might have to research your cf cards if you do. not all ide->cf will boot. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 11:59 AM, Kyle McDonald <KMcDonald at egenera.com>wrote:> Adam Sherman wrote: > >> On 6-Aug-09, at 11:50 , Kyle McDonald wrote: >> >>> i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on SOME >>>>> machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to allow for usb >>>>> booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i like compact flash >>>>> because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap alternative to a hard drive. I >>>>> mirror the cf drives exactly like they are hard drives so if one fails i >>>>> just replace it. USB is a little harder to do that with because they are >>>>> just not as consistent as compact flash. But honestly it should work and >>>>> many people do this. >>>>> >>>> >>>> This product looks really interesting: >>>> >>>> http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad2sahdcf.asp >>>> >>>> But I can''t confirm it will show both cards as separate disks? >>>> >>> My read is that it won''t (which is supported by the single SATA data >>> connector,) but it will do the mirroring for you. >>> >> >> Turns out the FAQ page explains that it will not, too bad. >> >> I know that I generally prefer to let ZFS handle the redundancy for me, >>> but for you it may be enough to let this do the mirroring for the root pool. >>> >> >> I''m with you there. >> >> It seems too expensive to get 2. Do they have a cheaper one that takes >>> only 1 CF card? >>> >> >> I just ordered a pair of the Syba units, cheap enough too test out anyway. >> > Oh. I was looking and if you have an IDE socket, this will do separate > master/slave devices: > (no IDE cable needed, it plugs right into the MB - There''s another that > uses a cable if you prefer.) > > http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/adeb44idecf.asp > > And 2 of these (which look remarkably like the Syba ones) would work too: > > http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/adsahdcf.asp > > They''re only 30 each so 2 of those are less than the dual one. > > > -Kyle > > > > >> Now to find some reasonably priced 8GB CompactFlash cards? >> >> Thanks, >> >> A. >> >> -- >> Adam Sherman >> CTO, Versature Corp. >> Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113 >> >> >> >> > > _______________________________________________ > zfs-discuss mailing list > zfs-discuss at opensolaris.org > http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090806/f28986d4/attachment.html>
Adam Sherman wrote:> On 4-Aug-09, at 16:54 , Ian Collins wrote: >>>>> Use a CompactFlash card (the board has a slot) for root, 8 drives >>>>> in raidz2 tank, backup the root regularly >>>> >>>> If booting/running from CompactFlash works, then I like this one. >>>> Backing up root should be trivial since you can back it up into >>>> your big storage pool. Usually root contains mostly non-critical >>>> data. The nice SAS backplane seems too precious to waste for booting. >>> >>> Do you know if it is possible to put just grub, stage2, kernel on >>> the CF card, instead of the entire root? >>> >> You can move some of root to another device, but I don''t think you >> can move the bulk - /usr. >> >> See: >> >> http://docs.sun.com/source/820-4893-13/compact_flash.html#50589713_78631 > > Good link. > > So I suppose I can move /var out and that would deal with most (all?) > of the writes. > > Good plan! >I also moved most of /opt out to save space. This ended up being a costly mistake, the environment I ended up with didn''t play well with Live Upgrade. So I suggest what ever you do, make sure you can create a new BE and boot into it before committing. -- Ian.
Adam Sherman wrote:> On 6-Aug-09, at 11:32 , Thomas Burgess wrote: >> i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on >> SOME machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to allow >> for usb booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i like >> compact flash because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap alternative >> to a hard drive. I mirror the cf drives exactly like they are hard >> drives so if one fails i just replace it. USB is a little harder to >> do that with because they are just not as consistent as compact >> flash. But honestly it should work and many people do this. > > > This product looks really interesting: > > http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad2sahdcf.asp >Take care, the SATA model didn''t work with Solaris. I have haven''t tried the current builds (I last tried with nv_101). The IDE model works fine. -- Ian.
Excellent advice, thans Ian. A. -- Adam Sherman +1.613.797.6819 On 2009-08-06, at 15:16, Ian Collins <ian at ianshome.com> wrote:> Adam Sherman wrote: >> On 4-Aug-09, at 16:54 , Ian Collins wrote: >>>>>> Use a CompactFlash card (the board has a slot) for root, 8 >>>>>> drives in raidz2 tank, backup the root regularly >>>>> >>>>> If booting/running from CompactFlash works, then I like this >>>>> one. Backing up root should be trivial since you can back it up >>>>> into your big storage pool. Usually root contains mostly non- >>>>> critical data. The nice SAS backplane seems too precious to >>>>> waste for booting. >>>> >>>> Do you know if it is possible to put just grub, stage2, kernel on >>>> the CF card, instead of the entire root? >>>> >>> You can move some of root to another device, but I don''t think you >>> can move the bulk - /usr. >>> >>> See: >>> >>> http://docs.sun.com/source/820-4893-13/compact_flash.html#50589713_78631 >> >> Good link. >> >> So I suppose I can move /var out and that would deal with most >> (all?) of the writes. >> >> Good plan! >> > I also moved most of /opt out to save space. > This ended up being a costly mistake, the environment I ended up > with didn''t play well with Live Upgrade. So I suggest what ever you > do, make sure you can create a new BE and boot into it before > committing. > > -- > Ian. >
that''s strange...it works for me.....at least the ones i''ve used have worked with opensolaris freebsd and linux. It just shows up as a normal sata drive. did you try more than one type of compactflash card? with the IDE unit, it was ALWAYS due to the card....most of them would work SOMEWHAT but not all of them would boot...but i''ve had no problems at all with the sata versions. On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Ian Collins <ian at ianshome.com> wrote:> Adam Sherman wrote: > >> On 6-Aug-09, at 11:32 , Thomas Burgess wrote: >> >>> i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on SOME >>> machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to allow for usb >>> booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i like compact flash >>> because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap alternative to a hard drive. I >>> mirror the cf drives exactly like they are hard drives so if one fails i >>> just replace it. USB is a little harder to do that with because they are >>> just not as consistent as compact flash. But honestly it should work and >>> many people do this. >>> >> >> >> This product looks really interesting: >> >> http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad2sahdcf.asp >> >> Take care, the SATA model didn''t work with Solaris. I have haven''t tried > the current builds (I last tried with nv_101). The IDE model works fine. > > -- > Ian. > >-------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://mail.opensolaris.org/pipermail/zfs-discuss/attachments/20090806/197b4ece/attachment.html>
Thomas Burgess wrote:> that''s strange...it works for me.....at least the ones i''ve used have > worked with opensolaris freebsd and linux. > It just shows up as a normal sata drive. did you try more than one > type of compactflash card? > with the IDE unit, it was ALWAYS due to the card....most of them would > work SOMEWHAT but not all of them would boot...but i''ve had no > problems at all with the sata versions. >Same card works in an IDE adapter. The issues must have been fixed in later builds, I''ll try again.> > > On Thu, Aug 6, 2009 at 3:18 PM, Ian Collins <ian at ianshome.com > <mailto:ian at ianshome.com>> wrote: > > Adam Sherman wrote: > > On 6-Aug-09, at 11:32 , Thomas Burgess wrote: > > i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it > works on SOME machines. The biggest difference is that > the bios has to allow for usb booting. Most of todays > computers DO. Personally i like compact flash because it > is fairly easy to use as a cheap alternative to a hard > drive. I mirror the cf drives exactly like they are hard > drives so if one fails i just replace it. USB is a little > harder to do that with because they are just not as > consistent as compact flash. But honestly it should work > and many people do this. > > > > This product looks really interesting: > > http://www.addonics.com/products/flash_memory_reader/ad2sahdcf.asp > > Take care, the SATA model didn''t work with Solaris. I have > haven''t tried the current builds (I last tried with nv_101). The > IDE model works fine. > > -- > Ian. > >-- Ian.
On 6-Aug-09, at 11:32 , Thomas Burgess wrote:> i''ve seen some people use usb sticks, and in practice it works on > SOME machines. The biggest difference is that the bios has to allow > for usb booting. Most of todays computers DO. Personally i like > compact flash because it is fairly easy to use as a cheap > alternative to a hard drive. I mirror the cf drives exactly like > they are hard drives so if one fails i just replace it. USB is a > little harder to do that with because they are just not as > consistent as compact flash. But honestly it should work and many > people do this.I''ve ended up purchasing two 8GB CF cards and the required CF-SATA adapters. How, once I install OpenSolaris on the system using the two CF cards as a mirrored ZFS root pool, can I leverage any of the free space for some kind of ZFS specific performance improvement? slog? etc? Thanks for everyone''s input! A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
On 6-Aug-09, at 15:16 , Ian Collins wrote:> This ended up being a costly mistake, the environment I ended up > with didn''t play well with Live Upgrade. So I suggest what ever you > do, make sure you can create a new BE and boot into it before > committing.I assume this was old-style LU and the new-style ZFS-based "boot environments"? Is there going to be a difference for me? I plan to run OSOL, latest. A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113
Adam Sherman wrote:> On 6-Aug-09, at 15:16 , Ian Collins wrote: >> This ended up being a costly mistake, the environment I ended up with >> didn''t play well with Live Upgrade. So I suggest what ever you do, >> make sure you can create a new BE and boot into it before committing. > > I assume this was old-style LU and the new-style ZFS-based "boot > environments"? >No, the original BE was build 101, ZFS boot. An lucreate from that BE took a day (!) and the new BE wasn''t bootable. -- Ian.
Ian Collins wrote:> Adam Sherman wrote: >> On 6-Aug-09, at 15:16 , Ian Collins wrote: >>> This ended up being a costly mistake, the environment I ended up >>> with didn''t play well with Live Upgrade. So I suggest what ever you >>> do, make sure you can create a new BE and boot into it before >>> committing. >> >> I assume this was old-style LU and the new-style ZFS-based "boot >> environments"? >> > No, the original BE was build 101, ZFS boot. An lucreate from that BE > took a day (!) and the new BE wasn''t bootable. >Note, that LU in Nevada is not being well-maintained at this point. beadm in OSOL is where it''s at (or so I''ve been told). Also, I''d recommend you not forget to remove the Swap and Dump volumes from the CF rpool. You could theoretically keep Dump, but, honestly, why bother. So, you could likely get a full install of OSOL on a 4GB CF card, and maybe even a 2GB card, especially if you are moving /var somewhere else. As far as extra space, I honestly wouldn''t use it for anything like a ZIL or L2ARC cache. CF is even worse than the 1st-gen SSDs in terms of (random write) performance and doesn''t have (much of) any of those nice advanced wear-leveling firmware stuff. I''d only use it for stuff that is WORM (or at least, hardly ever changes). A sharable /usr/local or /opt springs to mind... -- Erik Trimble Java System Support Mailstop: usca22-123 Phone: x17195 Santa Clara, CA
On 9-Aug-09, at 3:50 , Erik Trimble wrote:> Also, I''d recommend you not forget to remove the Swap and Dump > volumes from the CF rpool. You could theoretically keep Dump, but, > honestly, why bother. So, you could likely get a full install of > OSOL on a 4GB CF card, and maybe even a 2GB card, especially if you > are moving /var somewhere else.So that does that mean moving /opt & /var will work under OSOL without confusing the BE system?> As far as extra space, I honestly wouldn''t use it for anything like > a ZIL or L2ARC cache. CF is even worse than the 1st-gen SSDs in > terms of (random write) performance and doesn''t have (much of) any > of those nice advanced wear-leveling firmware stuff. I''d only use > it for stuff that is WORM (or at least, hardly ever changes). A > sharable /usr/local or /opt springs to mind...Understood. I have 8G cards coming in, so space won''t be an issue. I''d like to have the CF cards as read-only as possible though. By sharable, what do you mean exactly? Thanks a lot for the advice, A. -- Adam Sherman CTO, Versature Corp. Tel: +1.877.498.3772 x113