zfs discuss - Feb 2009 - Any way to set casesensitivity=mixed on the main pool?

I''m looking to create a new pool for storing CIFS files.  I know that I
need to set casesensitivity=mixed, but appears I can only set this option when
using the "zfs create" command, I get told it''s not a valid
pool property if I try to use it with "zpool create".

Is there no way to create a pool such that the default filesystem will have
casesensitivity=mixed?  I''d rather not have to remember to apply this
setting for every filesystem I create within this pool.
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Ross wrote:
> I''m looking to create a new pool for storing CIFS files.  I know
that I need to set casesensitivity=mixed, but appears I can only set this option
when using the "zfs create" command, I get told it''s not a
valid pool property if I try to use it with "zpool create".
> 
> Is there no way to create a pool such that the default filesystem will have
casesensitivity=mixed?  I''d rather not have to remember to apply this
setting for every filesystem I create within this pool.
# zpool create -O casesensitivity=mixed foo c1d1 c2d2
# zfs get casesensitivity foo
NAME  PROPERTY         VALUE        SOURCE
foo   casesensitivity  mixed        -

Note the use of -O rather than -o.  -O is for setting dataset properties 
on the top level dataset, -o is for setting pool properties.

-- 
Darren J Moffat

Good god.  Talk about non intuitive.  Thanks Darren!

Is it possible for me to suggest a quick change to the zpool error message in
solaris?  Should I file that as an RFE?  I''m just wondering if the
error message could be changed to something like:
"property ''casesensitivity'' is not a valid pool property.
Did you mean to use -O?"

It''s just a simple change, but it makes it obvious that it can be done,
instead of giving the impression that it''s not possible.
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

Ross wrote:
> Good god.  Talk about non intuitive.  Thanks Darren!
Why isn''t that intuitive ?  It is even documented in the man page.

      zpool create [-fn] [-o property=value] ... [-O file-system-
      property=value] ... [-m mountpoint] [-R root] pool vdev ...

> Is it possible for me to suggest a quick change to the zpool error message
in solaris?  Should I file that as an RFE?  I''m just wondering if the
error message could be changed to something like:
> "property ''casesensitivity'' is not a valid pool
property.  Did you mean to use -O?"
> 
> It''s just a simple change, but it makes it obvious that it can be
done, instead of giving the impression that it''s not possible.
Feel free to log the RFE in defect.opensolaris.org.

-- 
Darren J Moffat

It''s not intuitive because when you know that -o sets options, an
error message saying that it''s not a valid property makes you think
that it''s not possible to do what you''re trying.

Documented and intuitive are very different things.  I do appreciate
that the details are there in the manuals, but for items like this
where it''s very easy to pick the wrong one, it helps if the commands
can work with you.

The difference between -o and -O is pretty subtle, I just think that
extra sentence in the error message could save a lot of frustration
when people get mixed up.

Ross



On Wed, Feb 4, 2009 at 11:14 AM, Darren J Moffat
<darrenm at opensolaris.org> wrote:
> Ross wrote:
>>
>> Good god.  Talk about non intuitive.  Thanks Darren!
>
> Why isn''t that intuitive ?  It is even documented in the man page.
>
>     zpool create [-fn] [-o property=value] ... [-O file-system-
>     property=value] ... [-m mountpoint] [-R root] pool vdev ...
>
>
>> Is it possible for me to suggest a quick change to the zpool error
message
>> in solaris?  Should I file that as an RFE?  I''m just wondering
if the error
>> message could be changed to something like:
>> "property ''casesensitivity'' is not a valid pool
property.  Did you mean to
>> use -O?"
>>
>> It''s just a simple change, but it makes it obvious that it can
be done,
>> instead of giving the impression that it''s not possible.
>
> Feel free to log the RFE in defect.opensolaris.org.
>
> --
> Darren J Moffat
>

On Wed, February 4, 2009 05:14, Darren J Moffat wrote:
> Ross wrote:
>> Good god.  Talk about non intuitive.  Thanks Darren!
>
> Why isn''t that intuitive ?  It is even documented in the man page.
>
>       zpool create [-fn] [-o property=value] ... [-O file-system-
>       property=value] ... [-m mountpoint] [-R root] pool vdev ...
Well, I hadn''t previously thought about the fact that the zpool create
command creates both a pool *and a filesystem*.  So the fact that
casesensitivity is a filesystem property meant to me that it couldn''t
be
used on the zpool command.  I wouldn''t have been looking at the man
page
to find the -O switch, because it''s obvious from the structure that it
won''t be there -- zpool manipulates pools, zfs manipulates filesystems.

So I''m not completely sure "non-intuitive" is how
I''d describe it; but
it''s off in a weird corner I hadn''t even noticed existed.

So I''ve learned something; I wonder if I''ll remember it long
enough to do
any good?

-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

Yeah, I knew that zpool creates a root filesystem (since it''s listed in
zfs list), but I also knew these properties had to be set on creation, not
after, so I figured zpool -o was the way to do it.

Completely threw me when zpool -o said it wasn''t a valid property,
I''d never have thought to look for a different command to -o.
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

If you have an older Solaris release using ZFS and Samba, and you upgrade to a
version with CIFS support, how do you ensure the file systems/pools have
casesensitivity mixed?
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

You can check whether it''s set with:
$ zfs get casesensitivity pool/filesystem

If you''re using CIFS, you need that to return "mixed" or
"insensitive".  If it returns "sensitive", it will cause you
problems.

Unfortunately there''s no way to change this setting on an existing
filesystem, so if you do have the wrong setting you''ll need to create a
new filesystem and move your files over.  If you have enough disk space
it''s relatively easy to do with CIFS:

- Create a new filesystem on the server using "zfs create -o
casesensivity=mixed ...."
- Share it under a new name: "zfs set sharesmb=name=xxxx
pool/filesystem"
- Move all the files (I did a cut/paste with windows explorer since this
preserves permissions, robocopy would probably work too, mv in solaris might but
I''ve not tried that)
- Delete the original filesystem and change the name the new one is shared under
with "zfs set sharesmb=name=yyyy...."
- Rename the new filesystem if needed with "zfs rename"
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

On February 4, 2009 8:39:13 AM -0800 Ross <myxiplx at googlemail.com>
wrote:
> Yeah, I knew that zpool creates a root filesystem (since it''s
listed in
> zfs list), but I also knew these properties had to be set on creation,
> not after, so I figured zpool -o was the way to do it.
sorry, which properties have to be set on creation and not after?

Frank Cusack wrote:
> On February 4, 2009 8:39:13 AM -0800 Ross <myxiplx at googlemail.com>
wrote:
>> Yeah, I knew that zpool creates a root filesystem (since it''s
listed in
>> zfs list), but I also knew these properties had to be set on creation,
>> not after, so I figured zpool -o was the way to do it.
> 
> sorry, which properties have to be set on creation and not after?
Those in the out put of ''zfs get'' that are marked as not
editable but
are marked as inheritable are the "set once" property set.

-- 
Darren J Moffat

On Wed, February 4, 2009 11:05, Ross wrote:
> You can check whether it''s set with:
> $ zfs get casesensitivity pool/filesystem
>
> If you''re using CIFS, you need that to return "mixed" or
"insensitive".
> If it returns "sensitive", it will cause you problems.
It will?  What symptoms?
> Unfortunately there''s no way to change this setting on an existing
> filesystem, so if you do have the wrong setting you''ll need to
create a
> new filesystem and move your files over.  If you have enough disk space
> it''s relatively easy to do with CIFS:
>
> - Create a new filesystem on the server using "zfs create -o
> casesensivity=mixed ...."
> - Share it under a new name: "zfs set sharesmb=name=xxxx
pool/filesystem"
> - Move all the files (I did a cut/paste with windows explorer since this
> preserves permissions, robocopy would probably work too, mv in solaris
> might but I''ve not tried that)
Doing it over the network is going to be disastrously slow.

I''d say "cp -a" is the way to go, but I''m guessing
that''s not supported
under Solaris (don''t have my system handy right now).

-- 
David Dyer-Bennet, dd-b at dd-b.net; http://dd-b.net/
Snapshots: http://dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/data/
Photos: http://dd-b.net/photography/gallery/
Dragaera: http://dragaera.info

Well for one, occasional ''file not found'' errors when programs
(or shortcuts) check whether a file exists if the case is wrong.

And you can expect more problems too.  Windows systems are case insensitive, so
there''s nothing stopping a program referring to one of it''s
files as "file", "File" and "FILE". 
They''ll all refer to the same thing.  Under a case sensitive system
however, those are three separate files, and there''s no way to know
what kinds of problems that could cause.

Suffice to say that while you might get away with running ZFS and CIFS in case
sensitive mode for a bit, sooner or later it''s going to go horribly
wrong.
-- 
This message posted from opensolaris.org

>>>>> "r" == Ross  <myxiplx at googlemail.com>
writes:
     r> Suffice to say that while you might get away with running ZFS
     r> and CIFS in case sensitive mode for a bit, sooner or later
     r> it''s going to go horribly wrong.

It will work okay with Samba, though.
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